Indianrock2020 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Our PA is strictly mono and I run direct from Helix to PA out of the left/mono XLR output. So I decided to review my patches and found I often had the last block as a stereo LA Studio comp, which was often preceded with a stereo legacy reverb. The newer reverbs can be switched to mono. This isn't likely to cause a problem since the output is summing to mono, but I have heard of some stereo effects producing something unexpected when summed. Someone also mentioned that the summing process added 3 decibels --- if that is happening when I play live but not reflected over USB to my DAW, it would be nice to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaschaFranck Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 I'd simply add a mono gain block as the last one. That way you'll listen to the patch as it will run into the PA, regardless of how you connect the Helix. You can as well switch the compressor to mono. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hideout Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 21 hours ago, SaschaFranck said: I'd simply add a mono gain block as the last one. That way you'll listen to the patch as it will run into the PA, regardless of how you connect the Helix. You can as well switch the compressor to mono. Yes that’s a good work around but at this level, should it really be necessary to have to waste a block for something (Summing to mono) that should have been part of the effect parameter set from the beginning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaschaFranck Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 I think it should be possible to set all outputs to mono straight on the output "blocks". As far as the legacy FX all being stereo goes, well, they're legacy and L6 probably don't want to spend more time with them. I for one think it's quite nice they were added at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Was delighted to see the new HX mono reverbs added a few firmware revisions ago but I would like to see Line6 provide new HX mono versions of at least a plate, room, and hall reverb. Other new mono reverbs would be welcome too but these would be a good start. Mono HX reverbs use less DSP and after four years of being out in the wild the Helix is primed to finally receive these meat and potato reverbs. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaschaFranck Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said: Was delighted to see the new HX mono reverbs added a few firmware revisions ago but I would like to see Line6 provide new HX mono versions of at least a plate, room, and hall reverb. Defenitely (especially in case they'd be using less CPU resources, which should be expectable). These are exactly what I'm using the legacy reverbs for, because the genuine HX ones aren't too useful for plain vanilla reverberage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 I don't know if thisi still true but some of them summed the input to mono and then output a stereo reverb image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, brue58ski said: I don't know if thisi still true but some of them summed the input to mono and then output a stereo reverb image. They maintain stereo separation on the dry side, but remember stereo processing doesn't mean that each side is processed on it's own. If you, for example, mute the right side going into a reverb block, there will still be wet output from the left and right sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Here's a chart showing the signal flows of the four types; Mono, Stereo THRU/Stereo, Stereo THRU/Mono and True Stereo https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1xzHkOJtKipVGRQUXdrYmxQcE0/edit I'm still trying to find the list of what each reverb is. AND, has this been changed? Are they all True Stereo in the Helix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, brue58ski said: I'm still trying to find the list of what each reverb is. AND, has this been changed? Are they all True Stereo in the Helix? I don't think any of those diagrams completely represent what's happening with the stereo effects in the Helix. The one labeled "Stereo THRU/Stereo FX Block" is closest. The difference would be the mix control. There's only one, so you can't control the mix for the left and right side independently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 39 minutes ago, phil_m said: I don't think any of those diagrams completely represent what's happening with the stereo effects in the Helix. The one labeled "Stereo THRU/Stereo FX Block" is closest. The difference would be the mix control. There's only one, so you can't control the mix for the left and right side independently. These only represent the legacy reverbs which is what the subject was about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 55 minutes ago, brue58ski said: These only represent the legacy reverbs which is what the subject was about. Yeah, I’m saying that’s not quite how the Legacy reverbs work in the Helix. It’s not really how they work in the HD series either, fwiw. The Legacy reverbs behave the same way as the Stereo HX reverbs as far as the audio processing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, phil_m said: Yeah, I’m saying that’s not quite how the Legacy reverbs work in the Helix. It’s not really how they work in the HD series either, fwiw. The Legacy reverbs behave the same way as the Stereo HX reverbs as far as the audio processing. That wasn't my experience as I recall, with the HD series. That's why that document that I linked to was created. As far as Helix goes, that's good news. I haven't tested them to see, so total stereo is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hideout Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Why can't a "summing amplifier" be added at the end of the signal chain within each of the reverb effects themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 14 hours ago, hideout said: Why can't a "summing amplifier" be added at the end of the signal chain within each of the reverb effects themselves? You can use anything that's mono. You could just add a mono volume pedal after each reverb. That would be pretty much the least amount of DSP used to get this effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaschaFranck Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 I use a mono Cali IV EQ as the last thing in all my live patches. Sorted. I like the idea of an overall EQ per patch (not global, I use that for different purposes) anyway. Would perhaps be nice to have the legacy stuff running in mono genuinely, though, as it might save some CPU cycles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hideout Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 11 hours ago, brue58ski said: You can use anything that's mono. You could just add a mono volume pedal after each reverb. That would be pretty much the least amount of DSP used to get this effect. Yes, but that occupies a block that could otherwise be used for something else. That's a workaround that, had a little forethought been used, really shouldn't be necessary. Also, what if there's no room for another block in that signal chain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachz Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Is there a description anywhere that better describes the legacy fx Mono, Stereo THRU/Stereo, Stereo THRU/Mono and True Stereo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiganderton Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 On 12/6/2019 at 3:43 PM, Indianrock2020 said: Someone also mentioned that the summing process added 3 decibels. They were probably referring to what happens if the audio in the left and right channels is the same. Summing the left and right channels when they differ, which should be the case with stereo reverb, does not produce the same end result. Tech talk for those who want to put on their lab coats: Summing the left and right channels to mono is what produces the "mid" in mid-side processing. The sides are still present, but the mid is boosted somewhat compared to the sides. However with the sides, the mid cancels completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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