Helix 2.90 vs Axe FX III

[bzaferatos]

17 hours ago, brue58ski said:

 

So you've had your Helix for awhile and your first post on here is to let us know you replaced it with an AXE FX 3? Your first post on a Helix forum is to let us know you like the AXE FX 3 better? Well gee golly whillickers, thanks for the info. It was really really really really helpful. And now that I know that Metallica, Def Leppard and Steve Vai, oh, excuse me,  METTALICA (sp.), DEF LEPPARD OR STEVE VIA (sp.) bought the AXE FX as well, I guess I'd better get one too. I remember thinking as I made my helix purchase, "gee I hope METTALICA (sp.), DEF LEPPARD OR STEVE VIA (sp.) use the Helix" before I got one. Yup, you really showed all of us Helix users the truth now. And I'm sure your expertly worded first Helix post will send legions of Helix users into ex Helix user land. What a relief you are here to show us the error of our ways. Of course the fact this is your first and, so far, only post in no way indicates you're just a nasty old troll. No no no no no...........Not at all. And let's not forget that despite owning three Line 6 products, you have only registered one in your name. Is it the Helix you got rid of or just one of the power cabs? You are so clever.

 

17 hours ago, brue58ski said:

 

So you've had your Helix for awhile and your first post on here is to let us know you replaced it with an AXE FX 3? Your first post on a Helix forum is to let us know you like the AXE FX 3 better? Well gee golly whillickers, thanks for the info. It was really really really really helpful. And now that I know that Metallica, Def Leppard and Steve Vai, oh, excuse me,  METTALICA (sp.), DEF LEPPARD OR STEVE VIA (sp.) bought the AXE FX as well, I guess I'd better get one too. I remember thinking as I made my helix purchase, "gee I hope METTALICA (sp.), DEF LEPPARD OR STEVE VIA (sp.) use the Helix" before I got one. Yup, you really showed all of us Helix users the truth now. And I'm sure your expertly worded first Helix post will send legions of Helix users into ex Helix user land. What a relief you are here to show us the error of our ways. Of course the fact this is your first and, so far, only post in no way indicates you're just a nasty old troll. No no no no no...........Not at all. And let's not forget that despite owning three Line 6 products, you have only registered one in your name. Is it the Helix you got rid of or just one of the power cabs? You are so clever.

 

[bzaferatos]

17 hours ago, brue58ski said:

 

So you've had your Helix for awhile and your first post on here is to let us know you replaced it with an AXE FX 3? Your first post on a Helix forum is to let us know you like the AXE FX 3 better? Well gee golly whillickers, thanks for the info. It was really really really really helpful. And now that I know that Metallica, Def Leppard and Steve Vai, oh, excuse me,  METTALICA (sp.), DEF LEPPARD OR STEVE VIA (sp.) bought the AXE FX as well, I guess I'd better get one too. I remember thinking as I made my helix purchase, "gee I hope METTALICA (sp.), DEF LEPPARD OR STEVE VIA (sp.) use the Helix" before I got one. Yup, you really showed all of us Helix users the truth now. And I'm sure your expertly worded first Helix post will send legions of Helix users into ex Helix user land. What a relief you are here to show us the error of our ways. Of course the fact this is your first and, so far, only post in no way indicates you're just a nasty old troll. No no no no no...........Not at all. And let's not forget that despite owning three Line 6 products, you have only registered one in your name. Is it the Helix you got rid of or just one of the power cabs? You are so clever.

what does registering anything matter. i had a helix and it was not good at modeling. by the way it was my helix floor that i sold. my axe got here before i could sell the powercabs which worked out well because they sound great with the axe. you dont think it might be wise to check out the artist page of both and see who uses what? theres a reason these guys use fractal and not line 6. if the helix sounded better dont you think they would use it. THE TOPIC HERE IS (HELIX  2.9 VS AXE FX 3). LOL Ive rersponded to it and you being somekind of fan boy gets mad about it? Well 3.0 is out, then comes 3.1 and you still cant bank from 2 down to 1. Helix cant even support the update. you cant just add poly effects to most helix patches because of the dsp.....i can and the polys are better. you have to disable path 2 to use spillovers......I dont. as a matter of fact i could do it and create a patch for a 2nd guitar and a bass player. Helix doesnt compare to axe fx 3 tone wise or with any other axe unit really. Its just better. im not even a Metallica fan really nut they have been doing this forever. Again, just go look at the axe fx 3 artist page. Why do so many PROS and of so many different styles use the Fracal unit rather than the Helix. They can afford what ever they want. People read this stuff just like I did and buy Helix units based on bs. Until youve played through both units why are you complaining???? You dont know what youre talking about. I wasted a lot of money on the Helix and 14 months of my time. Hey but that Helix is sure easy to use.

[Hilpatajutaa]

16 hours ago, rosskoss said:

Contrary to some of the above posts, I'm actually convinced that Line6 has the most accurate modeling (both in terms of modeling process and in terms of component / system model accuracy)

 

I say this from personal experience playing some of the actual amps (please note, I don't use FRFR, cab simulation, IR etc. and run into SS Power amp into actual guitar cab). With this setup -  it is unbelievable how accurate the tone AND feel is. 

 

My experience is born out in many videos online as well. Here's a recent one - Kemper vs Fractal FM3 vs Helix vs Mooer GE 300 vs HeadRush: which is the best modeler of a SOLDANO? - YouTube

 

I'm actually not in favor of approach that NDSP Quad Cortex is employing - i.e. using neural nets etc. This to me, is the 'easy way out' - you can make a neural net do almost anything with the right neural net architecture. 

 

Line6 (and Fractal) on the other hand do component modeling (by and large) which is physics based. In the future I do expect neural nets to become more prevalent either as the base approach or as augmentation to physics based modeling. However, I always believe that you should start with actual physics-based modeling as the foundation for a truly sound model (I believe Neural also has component modeling on the non-profiled models). Where possible, I prefer to strive to improve the physics based model as that reflects the true working of the amp before employing any other techniques to minimize the overall error.

 

Now, the fractal does give you a more 'polished sound' (courtesy the beautiful reverbs etc. on the Fractal units)...but that doesn't mean that it's a more accurate sound in terms of amp modeling. Everyone is really close to each other now. 

This video is really good and it seems that the guy knows what he is doing. IMO you can get pretty good sound out of all of them. Which seems to be generally accepted. Of course there will always be people who for reason claim otherwise.

[bzaferatos]

On 5/11/2020 at 9:12 PM, phil_m said:

Well, I have the FM3. It's a fine device, and it sounds good. I'd say the same thing about the Helix. I did own the Fractal AX8 briefly, but I really didn't give it much of a chance. I couldn't make heads or tails of the hardware apart from the editor. The FM3 is a little better in that respect, but still not great. UI isn't Fractal's strong suit, for sure. I know people rave about Fractal's editors, but I think FM3 Edit is rather clunky and slow, too. There are just too many freaking tabs and knobs. The thing is, there are some people who love that about it. So it depends on what type of person you are.

 

To me, the design intent behind each device is so different, that even though they're both modelers, they're really in different universes. The Helix is the first multi-FX that makes me feel like I'm playing with real pedals. Not in the sense that everything is exactly the same, but in the fact that changing stuff is immediate, and turning knobs and changing parameters is a very interactive thing. I don't get that feeling with other modelers.

 

To me, the thing that is nice about the FM3 is that there's a level of curation as far as the IRs that are paired with each amp model. It's different than Line 6's approach. Line 6 is very much about giving you a blank slate.  Fractal seem to pick IRs that highlight certain qualities in the amp models. The other thing that's kind of cool with the FM3 is that multi-function switching. You can do a lot with the three footswitches. However, it's also kind of annoying after awhile. It seems that whatever you want to do on the FM3, you have to hold down a footswitch to get the next view. If I really wanted to use the FM3 live, I'd probably want the FC6 to go along with it. That's another $500, though.

Just got my axe fx 3 a week or so ago. sound wise i just cant compare the helix to it.  But! it sure would be nice if it were as easy to use as my helix was. the ease of use is way better on the helix than fractal on the unit itself and especially helix edit.

[brue58ski]

8 hours ago, bzaferatos said:

what does registering anything matter. i had a helix and it was not good at modeling. by the way it was my helix floor that i sold. my axe got here before i could sell the powercabs which worked out well because they sound great with the axe. you dont think it might be wise to check out the artist page of both and see who uses what? theres a reason these guys use fractal and not line 6. if the helix sounded better dont you think they would use it. THE TOPIC HERE IS (HELIX  2.9 VS AXE FX 3). LOL Ive rersponded to it and you being somekind of fan boy gets mad about it? Well 3.0 is out, then comes 3.1 and you still cant bank from 2 down to 1. Helix cant even support the update. you cant just add poly effects to most helix patches because of the dsp.....i can and the polys are better. you have to disable path 2 to use spillovers......I dont. as a matter of fact i could do it and create a patch for a 2nd guitar and a bass player. Helix doesnt compare to axe fx 3 tone wise or with any other axe unit really. Its just better. im not even a Metallica fan really nut they have been doing this forever. Again, just go look at the axe fx 3 artist page. Why do so many PROS and of so many different styles use the Fracal unit rather than the Helix. They can afford what ever they want. People read this stuff just like I did and buy Helix units based on bs. Until youve played through both units why are you complaining???? You dont know what youre talking about. I wasted a lot of money on the Helix and 14 months of my time. Hey but that Helix is sure easy to use.

 

Sigh. registering only matters because it indicates that you probably quickly registerd one product so you couldn't be accused of not owning anything Line 6. Then you swung onto and joined the forum making your FIRST post ever anti Helix. The topic here IS here because of you. It had actually died several months ago. YOU reserrected it.  It's not actually a topic though now. Just an opinion. No one asked your opinion. You just provided it. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. And it was provided NOT to help any Helix users. It was to put down the choice that people here made. Puff out your own chest and crank out your ego and spit in the face of the people here. You don't like Hellix. You like the AX FX? Good for you. I don't care what you think. Do you actually delude yourself into thinking you're being helpful? It wouldn't surprise me if you did. Which makes me respect your opinion even less. Not that I had any respect for it in the first place. And no, I don't think it is wise to listen to anyone else about how something sounds except yourself. If you want other people to decide for you, fine. That's not how I roll. I don't actually even  like Vai's tone. Never did. Not that I'm right or wrong. Tone is subjective. AND, by the  way, last I heard, he does not use the Fractal modeled amps. He likes them slightly better than Helix but he still wants real amps. He only uses the Fractal for effects in his situation. I don't know about Metallica. Def Leppard has used "modelling" for years now in that they used a modded Rockman device for several decades so they like a more processed sound anyway. Not that that's bad. I don't think its a character flaw. Just an opinion. But since they did, are ya gonna run out and get a Rockman Sustainer now? And as far as wasting your time. You're doing it here. I really like and enjoy my Helix but would never put another person's choice down because of it. And I have heard a friend's AX FX. Some of it was good, some bad. Just like the Helix. And I wasn't complaning about the FX units. YOU WERE!! My complaint was about YOU. Not the AX FX. I never once gave my opinion about one being better than the other. Try readin closer next time.

[phil_m]

4 hours ago, bzaferatos said:

what does registering anything matter. i had a helix and it was not good at modeling. by the way it was my helix floor that i sold. my axe got here before i could sell the powercabs which worked out well because they sound great with the axe. you dont think it might be wise to check out the artist page of both and see who uses what? theres a reason these guys use fractal and not line 6. if the helix sounded better dont you think they would use it. THE TOPIC HERE IS (HELIX  2.9 VS AXE FX 3). LOL Ive rersponded to it and you being somekind of fan boy gets mad about it? Well 3.0 is out, then comes 3.1 and you still cant bank from 2 down to 1. Helix cant even support the update. you cant just add poly effects to most helix patches because of the dsp.....i can and the polys are better. you have to disable path 2 to use spillovers......I dont. as a matter of fact i could do it and create a patch for a 2nd guitar and a bass player. Helix doesnt compare to axe fx 3 tone wise or with any other axe unit really. Its just better. im not even a Metallica fan really nut they have been doing this forever. Again, just go look at the axe fx 3 artist page. Why do so many PROS and of so many different styles use the Fracal unit rather than the Helix. They can afford what ever they want. People read this stuff just like I did and buy Helix units based on bs. Until youve played through both units why are you complaining???? You dont know what youre talking about. I wasted a lot of money on the Helix and 14 months of my time. Hey but that Helix is sure easy to use.

The Helix modeling is fine. If you compare the same amp models on the Helix and the Axe FX III using the same IRs, the results are very similar. Like most things, a person’s success with the Helix depends on what they put into it. If someone just doesn’t like it, then by all means, play something else. As mentioned above, I still have the FM3, and I don’t find it “kills the Helix” in a anything, really. I feel it has a particular type of sound, and I feel that a lot of the amps start to sound the same after awhile. As far as the polyphonic stuff, Line 6 has been very clear about the DSP requirements for that. The Axe FX III uses a totally different processor than the Helix - one that likely couldn’t easily be used in floor format device (which is probably why Fractal uses the SHARC processor for the FM3).

 

As far as the Fractal artist page, if that matters to to you, it matters to you. I’ve personally not heard of most of the artists on that page. Many of those artists endorse a bunch of companies, so it’s not like they’ve signed a blood oath with Fractal, or that’s the only thing they’ll use. Steve Vai, for instance, uses the Fractal stuff for effects only.

 

Anyway, these are the Line 6 forums, and coming here and badmouthing them is simply a bit rude. You shouldn’t be surprised when you get pushback.

[cruisinon2]

On 1/6/2021 at 10:06 AM, phil_m said:

As far as the Fractal artist page, if that matters to to you, it matters to you.

 

I base all my decision making on what famous people do. The only thing I can't figure out is why I haven't been on the Tonight Show yet... anybody know what kind of underwear Steve Vai buys? Maybe that's the answer...;)

[brue58ski]

47 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

I base all my decision making on what famous people do. The only thing I can't figure out is why I haven't been on the Tonight Show yet... anybody know what kind of underwear Steve Vai buys? Maybe that's the problem...;)

 

Brand: Fruit Of The Loom

Style: Ax FX III

 

Both the Helix and Ax FX III style are very cofortable but some people say the Ax FX III style ride's up slightly less than their Helix style. Of course, not everyone agree's and they cost significantly more. ;) Almost everyone agree's the Helix style is easier to put on. But, Def Leppard swears by the Ax FX III style.

[cruisinon2]

31 minutes ago, brue58ski said:

Def Leppard swears by the Ax FX III style.

 

Well since Phil Collen clearly doesn't own any shirts, I'd be very surprised if he wears any drawers at all under those snazzy leather trousers....

[rosskoss]

6 hours ago, bzaferatos said:

what does registering anything matter. i had a helix and it was not good at modeling. 

 

This statement tells me everything that I need to know. You either:

 

a) Have no clue what you're talking about at all

b) Are a poor guitarist without a good ear/feel for things

c) Are trolling

 

Please reference the video link I posted earlier and tell me what you think. It's just one model (Soldano) but that alone disqualifies your statement above.

 

To the rest - 

 

[vstrattomusic]

To add something, I've had my LT since Jan 2018 and I mainly record and mix songs for myself and other bands, it hasn't been easy for me to dial in a good high gain sound for the mix with the amps in the Helix. I'm almost going back to using VST amps now. I keep trying and trying but it's just a lot of work. It's easy to make it sound good on it's own but in a mix it's frustrating, I have to reamp every time. I might agree that the modelling is not as good in the Helix. Something about the high end or I'm not sure..But it's common to read on the Internet that it's a lot easier to get a good tone from the start with the AXE. I might just buy a real amp like a lunchbox that I can record with..

[brue58ski]

On 1/6/2021 at 9:14 AM, rosskoss said:

To the rest - 

 

 

Awwww. You're no fun. (Just kidding of course)

[JMolson]

I have both units (Helix rack and AxeFx III) and it seems to me each shines at different things.. I like and plan to keep both for quite a while.  YMMV :)

 

[Paulzx]

On 1/6/2021 at 4:26 PM, cruisinon2 said:

 

Well since Phil Collen clearly doesn't own any shirts, I'd be very surprised if he wears any drawers at all under those snazzy leather trousers....

 

I just wanted to add to this discussion that Def Leppard actually only use the fractal for certain effects, they don't use it for everything like we would tend to. It's still a massive endorsement but its not the full story just to say they use it. Phil himself in manraze used to use the vetta live which is how I got into line 6 stuff. He then went on to a cyber cybertwin so in reality these guys are constantly changing their gear around

[Paulzx]

On 1/16/2021 at 1:31 PM, Paulzx said:

 

I just wanted to add to this discussion that Def Leppard actually only use the fractal for certain effects, they don't use it for everything like we would tend to. It's still a massive endorsement but its not the full story just to say they use it. Phil himself in manraze used to use the vetta live which is how I got into line 6 stuff. He then went on to a cyber cybertwin so in reality these guys are constantly changing their gear around

 

I better update this for the record - both Phil and Vivian use the Fractal to replace the amps as well, so it's just the fractal and powered speakers they're using. This happened because Phil heard John Petrucci playing through it when they were doing the G3 tour with Satriani, so he went over to it himself after that.

 

I think it's fair to say that all the well known modellers are pretty good these days, I'm enjoying my Helix but i recognise the Fractal is probably considered the best of the lot, the Helix is probably best value all things considered, however, seeing as I'm not a top international touring artist, I don't necessarily need the absolute best equipment you can buy, like most here no doubt.

 

What does interest me, particularly with high gain tones, is the side by side comparison. For those lucky enough to have an AxeFX3 and a Helix, is the AxeFX noticeably a lot more impressive on the high gain? I'm not interested in accuracy of modelling, just that wow factor when you hear a high gain tone that sounds very impressive - we all know that when we hear it. I would be interested to hear a verdict on that. I don't see myself buying one any time soon but it is an interesting comparison.