Line Inputs Recordings Failed Since 1.10 Update

[davec69]

Our band has made several attempts on recent shows, to capture a recording of both Main and Line Inputs.  We have not had one successful attempt since the 1.10 update. 

 

Prior to the update, it was just a matter of selecting the folder, selecting to record Mains and all inputs, then hit the record button.

 

Since the update, we try this, and the end result is a bunch of blank tracks.  The Main output seems to be recording something.  The last attempt resulted in a couple of the vocal tracks and the keyboards recorded on the Main Output track, but all of the separate line input tracks are empty.  I even tried normalizing them, just in case.  All I get is static.

 

Prior to recording, we auto trim all of the channels, to get a good recording level.  Select the folder on our 32GB SD card, as usual, then hit the record button.   We even hit the mark button between songs, which seems to work.  

 

We can see the green activity lights lighting on the recording screen, during recording, but nothing is there afterwards.

 

 What are we missing here?

[davec69]

Anyone?

[antonioctd]

If it helps anything, what I've noticed is that I get "blank tracks" if I don't have nothing connected to the main outs.

 

One time I was recording a drummer. Just took the M20d and some click/guide tracks on my phone. 

Miced all the drums and connected the phones out of my phone to the line-ins. 

Sent an aux out to a small mixer to make monitoring to the drummer and record all input channels on an SD card in the M20d. 

 

The plan was to import the drum tracks to a DAW and then add the other instruments.

 

I was getting "blank tracks" in the recording until I plugged a cable to one of the main out! Yes, just a cable with no speaker in the other end! LOL 

I seams like if the m20d sees nothing connected to the main out it does no record audio and creates empty wave files...

 

No big deal. I just carry a female XLR plug, with no cable, with me any time I want to use the console to just as a recorder. 

And I do this a lot of times because in the gigs were there is a sound company I ask for the direct outs or some aux sends and plug them to the M20d just to record the show  :D

[davec69]

Thanks for the response.  That is strange.  

 

Actually, I have my L3M's plugged into the digital connection, but I do have two reference monitors plugged in the the main outs.

 

I'll try unplugging then plugging them next time and see if it makes any difference.

[antonioctd]

Ok I'm furious now!

 

Yesterday had a an important rehearsal that was supposed to be recorded for reference. I've miced everything and created a recording session/folder on the M20d for each song. 

 

We did 2 passes of each song. So we have recording 1 & 2 for each. 

 

Today I've stetted every thing up for a quick mix and send mp3 by email to every one so they can review/practice some details. 

 

What I've fund on the SD card: Empty wave files!!!!!

 

Line6: what the f*** is this????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????

[davec69]

I know the feeling

 

Ok I'm furious now!

 

Yesterday had a an important rehearsal that was supposed to be recorded for reference. I've miced everything and created a recording session/folder on the M20d for each song. 

 

We did 2 passes of each song. So we have recording 1 & 2 for each. 

 

Today I've stetted every thing up for a quick mix and send mp3 by email to every one so they can review/practice some details. 

 

What I've fund on the SD card: Empty wave files!!!!!

 

Line6: what the f*** is this????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????

[emmebbi]

Did you have one saved scene into your saved set-up??

In my experience you ALWAYS MUST save at least one SCENE for each SET-UP. And everything work perfectly.

Now as soon as I prepare a band on my m20d, I save one scene into my set-up. And if I do some recordings, I know that each recording is usable ONLY into the setup + scene where it was done.

I hope that the next update'll do these things automatically.

 

About the recording/listening level, I want to say that the real clipping limit is about +15db reading on the channel vu-meter. So after you found the correct gain and do all tweaking, you can turn your channel volume up until reading on the channel led scale a maximum of about +15db or 1/2 db less. Do the same on the master level volume. You'll have all available dynamic into your speakers and a good recording level.

I hope you'll find good these suggestions

[litesnsirens]

That's bizarre behaviour that you guys are getting. I haven't done a ton of recording with my M20d yet but everything I have done has worked perfectly. I have had some issues getting the M20d to recognize my SD cards from time to time even some that it previously read, just on a given day it won't read the card. I sometime have to reformat or just mess with it trying to create folders with it on the M20d. But essentially if I see the remaining time displayed in the upper right corner of the record mode screen and the blue SD icon in the upper left ... I know it's all going to work perfectly.

[Digital-sound]

I agree with having had no problems. But, I have not included the main outs in my recordings. Sounds like that is when the issue occurs.

[linesixy]

_{Have Don and Arne from Line 6 got any comments on what's happening for these users?}

 

_{I'm currently holding off from buying this mixer.  Looks good on paper - but I just want to be sure that the major features that I'm interested in work OK.  Reliable recording is something that attracts me.}

[litesnsirens]

I agree with having had no problems. But, I have not included the main outs in my recordings. Sounds like that is when the issue occurs.

 

In all fairness I haven't been including the main outs either, so I can't say one way or another what would happen if I did.  Maybe I'll experiment with this and get back.

[antonioctd]

I never include the main out in the recordings.. Don't see the point. But the physical main outs were connected.

 

I bet that the "saving the scene" thing is not the problem.

Because I have done some recording sessions were the sole propose was to import to the daw. I didn't even use the m20d to make live sound on those occasions. It was just a mutitrack recorder. I never saved setup or scene for that sessions and I was always able to import the files the the DAW with no problems.   

 

The only thing I might have done different was to leave the SD card in the M20d on the way to the rehearsal. Then I've turned the console on and did every thing (setup, recording) and just took the SD out at the end when packing up (with the m20d off).

 

As far as I can recall, in previous sessions I took the memory card in my laptop case and inserted it on the m20d after setup, just before recording...  

 

I know this sounds very stupid. But it's the only thing I can think that I might done different. 

[ArneLine6]

Did you check the recording folders on the SD card in a computer? If the recording is played back on the M20d with a setup that does not contain the channels to play them back through that would be simple.

But if a recording path to the SD card is assigned, the card is not write protected and has enough free space and record is pressed the recording should absolutely work. We have done extensive testing and we are very interested to get to the bottom of this.

How does the folder/ file path on your card look like? Something like SD/ Recording1/ 1_Kick Drum.wav?

[antonioctd]

Yes I checked:

 

SD/rehearsal/"name of the song"/recording (recording 2 , etc...)/1_Kick.wav

 

I've created separate folders for each song because we did at least 2 takes of each and I wanted to have that organised for easy importing to the daw. 

 

Also, there's is other folder that was already on the card from another day:

 

SD/SFM Gig/recording/13_Line (L)

 

It was just a stereo out of the live board (from the sound company) of that gig.

One of those situations were we were no responsible for the sound and I used the M20d just as a recorder. 

That one worked well.

[davec69]

Here's a pic of my folder structure on the SD card.   All of the files except the Main Outs file are blank.

 

[antonioctd]

Ok, I've been brain storming about this and I'll log here my toughs.

Please be warned that I'm a guitar player and I sometimes I can't even program my dish washer to turn on at a specific time  :P

 

I've been thinking about the recording session with the drummer that I posted before.

 

When we realized the recordings were not playing back on the M20d we took the card out to check on the laptop. 

Then we reinserted the card on the M20d and plugged the cable to the main out assuming that it was the problem because it was the only thing we've done differently (not connecting the main outs). 

 

But that and the fact that last recording fail occurred when I turned on the M20d with the SD already inserted, leads me to think that the problem is related to the time when the SD in inserted and the M20d software failing to index or recognize something about the memory on the card.

 

If this is completely stupid please ignore. I'm trying to help providing data because I would like this to be solved ASAP....

[pierrebriend]

I do also have a MAJOR problem with the RECORD mode. Each time I tried to use it during a gig, I get :

- input files 1 to 8 OK, BUT input 9 to 16 wave files corrupted (loud pink noise....)

- the mix recording is OK for all inputs

- and not least, very often during RECORD session I COMPLETLY LLOSE TEH CONTROL of the M20d. The solution I fou,d is to set off and ON the mixer. It takes 30 to 40 seconds, very uncomfortable during a Gig. !!

 

I have tested different sd cards : 8 Go to 32. Class 4 and class 10 : same bad results pn files! And lost of control !!

 

Did anyoneone encounter such problem and has a solution or at least a diagnostic process to follow'' I will test the recording mode via usb to my computer..

Should I precise that I need the 16 inputs with my band

 

Thank you for help...

[ArneLine6]

We are trying to reproduce this and to find out what these empty files are. When the SD card is removed during recording or before saving (spinning wheel, a few seconds) the files are corrupt and do not play.

When the SD card is too slow and not class 10 some tracks can be corrupted. There is no easy way to know if the card is ok since they can be old or counterfeits but a new, brand class10 card from a mainstream dealer should work.

When you try to play your files in a computer do they play silence or not at all?

[antonioctd]

We are trying to reproduce this and to find out what these empty files are. When the SD card is removed during recording or before saving (spinning wheel, a few seconds) the files are corrupt and do not play.

When the SD card is too slow and not class 10 some tracks can be corrupted. There is no easy way to know if the card is ok since they can be old or counterfeits but a new, brand class10 card from a mainstream dealer should work.

When you try to play your files in a computer do they play silence or not at all?

 

What you mean by removing the card before saving?

I usually only remove it after the m20d is turned of. When I'm packing to go home... 

But I don´t always save setup or scene... Is that what you mean?

 

The files play silence

if you normalize them in a daw you'll get loud white noise.

 

My card is a class 10 (30MB/s) SanDisk Ultra  and is not old by any means.

 

Thanks  

[antonioctd]

According to this site: http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/recorders/record-time/ 24bit 48khz audio uses 8.24Mb per minute. 

 

So,

8.24 / 60s * 16 channels = 2.20MB/s (aprox)

 

By this calculation even  a class 4 card (4MB/s) is more than enough. Am I miscalculating this? 

[davec69]

Maybe that's our problem.   I have never saved anything after recording at a gig.  

 

Now that I think about it, I can't even remember stopping the recording after a show.  

 

Out of habit, I usually just quickly reach around and turn off the power before the other brainiacs in the band start unplugging their gear.

 

I just assumed that a real time recording to SD card, would have the tracks saved already.  

 

I do know that during the last rehearsal recording, we started and stopped the recorder a couple times.  All 3 of those take folders contained blank tracks.

 

We're rehearsing tonight, so I Will try again, and make some tests.  Any suggestions?

[antonioctd]

I always stop/start recording. Just don't save the scene... 

[litesnsirens]

I have never made any attempt to save anything after making a recording, and my material is always there.  When you press stop it saves it and pressing record again starts another file.  The only reason I could see for having to save a scene would be if you want to play those files back through the system as they sounded that night ie; with the same eq, levels and effects.  Now, that's not to say that there isn't still some processing going on after you stop the recording.  It could very well be that if you power down the M20d before pressing stop on the recorder you could lose everything, or even if you do press stop perhaps you need to give the M20d a little more processing time before powering down.  But I don't think you need to save a scene in order to keep the recording.

[Digital-sound]

I have only recorded two shows. I didn't stop the recording. I just turned off the board and then ejected the card. I did happen to save a scene, and set up. My recordings were perfect. All channels. Some plugged into 1-6 and some plugged in to 7-12. But again,I was not recording the main outs.

[emmebbi]

The mixer automatically remember into its flash memory the last setup and scene used even if you did not save them. It takes all data waiting to be saved. Even if you turn it off, you'll find the same setup/scene turning it on again. But if you, before saving, extract or change the sd card, or load a new setup, all data that were into the flash memory waiting to be saved 'll be lost.

In the previous forum this problem was discussed a lot and someone from line6 said that the solution was to have always at last one setup and one scene saved. He said that it is a good rule to do all sound and immediately save one setup and one scene.

Since I follow this suggestion I've never lost one track.

[antonioctd]

Any news or any more light on the subject? 

 

I have work coming up with the M20d and I would like to know what I'm doing wrong so I can correct it...

[antonioctd]

I've been doing some tests... 

 

Here is a video I've done: 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi8fwUaPFJY&feature=youtu.be

 

Excuse my English... The video is unlisted so that only people in this topic con find it. 

 

The PC is connected to the M20d by analog cable. Pc Phones out -> M20d Aux in  

[davec69]

I can report that I tried recording again at last nights rehearsal.  Basically, we had Bass, Drums, Guitar and Vocals last night.  Went through the usual auto trim routine.  

 

We tried just recording one song, then stopped to see if we actually recorded anything.  I was able to playback the Main Out channel using the Media Player.  There was sound.  I then tried loading one of the line input tracks into the media player, and nothing.  After a couple attempts, we just gave up.

 

I'll wait to hear from someone who can figure it out.

 

One question while waiting.   Does muting the channel have any affect on the recording?  I was under the impression that the recording was taken pre fader.  We rehearse in a small space, and cranking all the instruments through the PA, while we record is not feasible.

[antonioctd]

Din't try recording main out... 

 

I'm pretty sure that all recording is pre-fader

 

Did you see my video? I can't even use quick capture!  :(

[davec69]

Yes, I watched your video.  Our  problem is a little different.  

 

We actually get activity indicators when we record.  We can see the little green light going on and off.  We just don't have anything recorded afterwards.

 

Have you run the Auto Trim, to set the recording levels?

 

Are the Channels Muted?

 

What do your level meters look like on the setup page?  Can you see the level indicator moving?

 

 

Din't try recording main out... 

 

I'm pretty sure that all recording is pre-fader

 

Did you see my video? I can't even use quick capture!  :(

[antonioctd]

This test was done with the aux in that is line level so no need for auto trim. 

 

No, the channel was not muted and I had reading on the meter. Very near 0Db actually.

So it should result in a near normalized recording with the higher peaks reaching the top of the scale.

[ArneLine6]

I can report that I tried recording again at last nights rehearsal.  Basically, we had Bass, Drums, Guitar and Vocals last night.  Went through the usual auto trim routine.  

 

We tried just recording one song, then stopped to see if we actually recorded anything.  I was able to playback the Main Out channel using the Media Player.  There was sound.  I then tried loading one of the line input tracks into the media player, and nothing.  After a couple attempts, we just gave up.

 

I'll wait to hear from someone who can figure it out.

 

One question while waiting.   Does muting the channel have any affect on the recording?  I was under the impression that the recording was taken pre fader.  We rehearse in a small space, and cranking all the instruments through the PA, while we record is not feasible.

The recording is pre fader so muting does not affect the recording. The media player plays only stereo files so the recorded input channel tracks will not play in the media player. The recording should play if you just press play in the recording page. Since there seems to be some real problem I think the best way way to resolve this would be to talk to our customer service and find out what is going on.

 

The US support team can be reached at 818-575-3600 (option 3), Mon-Fri 8am - 5 pm PST. Our busiest hours are from 11am to 2 pm.

The UK support team can be reached at +44 (0) 1788 566 555, Mon-Thurs 9am – 5pm GMT and Fri 9am – 4pm GMT.

[ArneLine6]

This test was done with the aux in that is line level so no need for auto trim. 

 

No, the channel was not muted and I had reading on the meter. Very near 0Db actually.

So it should result in a near normalized recording with the higher peaks reaching the top of the scale.

When using the Quick Capture buttons on the perform or Tweak pages the Aux Input is not recorded and the input channels 1- 16 are recorded to the internal memory, not to the SD card. When using the Record page it should be recorded and play. It is strange that there is no input signal visible on the record page in your video. I think if you talk to our customer service on the phone it is easier to find out what is happening here and to do whatever is necessary to resolve this.

 

The US support team can be reached at 818-575-3600 (option 3), Mon-Fri 8am - 5 pm PST. Our busiest hours are from 11am to 2 pm.

The UK support team can be reached at +44 (0) 1788 566 555, Mon-Thurs 9am – 5pm GMT and Fri 9am – 4pm GMT.

[antonioctd]

I just did another test with with an acoustic guitar plugged to channel 1 and every thing worked perfectly.

:blink: And now its recording the aux as well. No problems  :wacko:

 

This can't be random! Computers do not have random behaviors.

 

I'll try to repeat the test the times necessary to spot what is causing this.

If I can understand I can replicate and it will always work when I want it to.

 

And, of course, I'll post the results here and maybe LIne6 can solve this on the next firmware up date... 

[davec69]

Thanks for the response!!

 

Is it possible to get someone from support to monitor this forum and reply to users?  

 

This is much more convenient ........well.........forum........for some users.  Trying to get a hold of phone support is fine, but personally, I'd be ok with posting questions and getting responses here.  

 

The added benefit would be that, all M20D users could benefit.

 

The recording is pre fader so muting does not affect the recording. The media player plays only stereo files so the recorded input channel tracks will not play in the media player. The recording should play if you just press play in the recording page. Since there seems to be some real problem I think the best way way to resolve this would be to talk to our customer service and find out what is going on.

 

The US support team can be reached at 818-575-3600 (option 3), Mon-Fri 8am - 5 pm PST. Our busiest hours are from 11am to 2 pm.

The UK support team can be reached at +44 (0) 1788 566 555, Mon-Thurs 9am – 5pm GMT and Fri 9am – 4pm GMT.

[linesixy]

Great idea, Davec69.

 

As you say, if the responses are posted here... we all get to learn... so that would mean the Line6 support guys would have to handle fewer calls about the same issue.

[TheRealZap]

Actually the wireless forums, and the stagescape, stagesource forums are already an exception to this, as they are actively monitored by the project manager. No offense to the support guys... but the guys monitoring the aforementioned forums, really know these inside and out... I think you're getting a way better deal.

 

Is it possible to get someone from support to monitor this forum and reply to users?  

[davec69]

 If the issue gets resolved, then I'll agree with you.  So, far I've just got messages telling me how good a deal it is, and messages telling me to call to get the problem resolved.

 

Any techs around that can actually assist with the problem?

 

 

Actually the wireless forums, and the stagescape, stagesource forums are already an exception to this, as they are actively monitored by the project manager. No offense to the support guys... but the guys monitoring the aforementioned forums, really know these inside and out... I think you're getting a way better deal.

[linesixy]

_{I'm on the verge of deciding whether to buy or not... but this recording issue is one that's making me hold back and consider other options.}

 

_{Also wondering about overall reliability of the hardware... any comments?}

[TheRealZap]

this is a user forum... no techs here...

get in contact here: http://line6.com/company/contact/

if you want a direct response from line6.

 

 If the issue gets resolved, then I'll agree with you.  So, far I've just got messages telling me how good a deal it is, and messages telling me to call to get the problem resolved.

 

Any techs around that can actually assist with the problem?

 

 

Actually the wireless forums, and the stagescape, stagesource forums are already an exception to this, as they are actively monitored by the project manager. No offense to the support guys... but the guys monitoring the aforementioned forums, really know these inside and out... I think you're getting a way better deal.