Catalyst with HX Stomp 4CM?

[adagosto]

Ok gotta ask, how well will this amp work with the HX Stomp using the 4CM? Seems to me this could be a great option as compared to the Powercab option.

 

Not exactly sure anyone can answer this, but, if you happen to know, please do tell!

 

 

[teknotard]

I was wondering the same thing. Especially at this price point, I am super interested in using it as a powered cab. Just based on what I can find I think I have an idea of what the difference might be. 

based on the ins and outs it should work well. I guess it will depend on where you want to do your models. 

 

totally speculative. 
 

power cab is FRFR so it will be much more geared towards using your own IRs. It also has it’s own speaker models. This feature, as line 6 states, is more amp in the room feel. As opposed to the ir that captures both cabinets, mic, mic placement and mixes.

 

the catalyst is an actual guitar speaker in a cab. It is a true amp.

 

So pros of the power cab

- better for IRs

- flexibility with speaker options to get a variety of options

- but expensive and still a model of a speaker (if that even matters)

 

pros of catalyst

- true authentic speaker/cab experience

- much more affordable

- but not as flexible

 

only other thing I can think of is that the power cab 2x12 is marketed as stereo. The catalyst onboard effects are stereo but I haven’t been able to find out if the effects return is stereo. 
 

that being said stereo on a rig is debatable. I personally enjoy it when playing but I think the effect is lost on an audience. 

[adagosto]

Yeah after I posted this question I learned that the Catalyst is not an FRFR speaker. So, at that moment I was thinking this was not a good alternative.

 

But hold the phone....

 

Being this is a "modeling" amp and used "modeled" effects, the speaker must be optimized for, well, models...right?

 

So I kinda have to agree with Teknotard in the assessment of pros and cons.

[usedbyanr]

On 2/17/2022 at 9:36 AM, adagosto said:

Yeah after I posted this question I learned that the Catalyst is not an FRFR speaker. So, at that moment I was thinking this was not a good alternative.

 

But hold the phone....

 

Being this is a "modeling" amp and used "modeled" effects, the speaker must be optimized for, well, models...right?

 

So I kinda have to agree with Teknotard in the assessment of pros and cons.

 

I wish there was some definitive information regarding FRFR. A video demonstrating a modeler into the power amp would have been nice. The "What’s different between Catalyst and Spider V MkII?" question in the FAQ states "Full-range tweeter not included' but that doesn't mean it's not something like the F12M-150 where the tweeter is built into the cone. They specifically went out of their way to include a direct line to the power amp that states for use with a modeler. The AUX IN also states "An auxiliary audio input for running external audio sources directly (unprocessed) into the amplifier’s speakers.". To me that implies the ability to play more than the traditional range that a guitar speaker would have. I guess we just have to wait for some videos.

[adagosto]

Yeah I agree we'll need some videos.

 

One of the retailers, I think Sweetwater stated it was not an FRFR, but still, to your point, there are many aspects that indicate the speaker must be designed to specifically handle digital "modeling" and therefore must sound really good as a 4CM platform.

 

I'm kinda tempted to preorder one, try it out and decide during my 30 day window. It's just such a pain shipping an amp back!!!

[usedbyanr]

5 hours ago, adagosto said:

Yeah I agree we'll need some videos.

 

One of the retailers, I think Sweetwater stated it was not an FRFR, but still, to your point, there are many aspects that indicate the speaker must be designed to specifically handle digital "modeling" and therefore must sound really good as a 4CM platform.

 

I'm kinda tempted to preorder one, try it out and decide during my 30 day window. It's just such a pain shipping an amp back!!!

 

I don't believe the 4CM is necessary at all. (Maybe you are just using the acronym as a generic term for a modeler to amp connection.) Based on the diagram in the Catalyst Pilot's Guide, it's just a connection from the modeler's mono output to the amp's FX return in power amp mode. There's a few F12M-150, F12-X200 videos by Celestion UK that show you how to replace the speakers in a few different amps that have access to the power amp (Roland JC-120) bypassing the pre-amp. That's pretty much exactly what this is doing. If it sounds good it would be a significantly cheaper option than most of the other options for the home player. 

 

[adagosto]

1 hour ago, usedbyanr said:

Based on the diagram in the Catalyst Pilot's Guide, it's just a connection from the modeler's mono output to the amp's FX return in power amp mode.

 

Yes you are absolutely correct. I read that and wasn't totally sure if I understood that correctly (wishful hoping). But its even better than the 4CM.

 

So in this case for me the next question is, how well will an acoustic guitar sound through this? If its good sounding like what the Powercabs do then this is slam dunk for me. I honestly really don't need the power and features of a Powercab, but they seem like the best fit for what I'd like to do with my Stomp XL at home. That is until this little amp showed up.

 

Thank you for clarifying this.

 

[Tonymf]

New to all this and I am thinking of getting a HX Stomp and therefore I am also wondering if the Catalyst amp could be an alternative to the Powercab??

[bobcoss]

It seems like they L6 is trying to make this more like a traditional tube guitar amp with a separate preamp and power amp with the ability to put pedals in front or between them.   Seeing the the different types of amps listed, they maybe be doing some power amp modeling to make the 4cm suggested in the pilots guide authentic.  And I see that there are thee types of cabinets selectable in the remote app.  So if you are plugging a Helix or HXS directly into the return as is also suggested in the pilots guide, there must be some difference in selecting amp model types that should effect the sound coming from the power amp and speaker section.

 

I haven't seen anyone talk about that or show any results of testing yet, but I would want to know that is the case before I bought it to use as an alternative to the powercab variants.   If it's true, it would be a great option to use in place of a powercab.

 

I'm tempted to get one to play with, but I have a Helix and Powercabs, so I don't know that I would get any benefit from this.

[Tonymf]

8 minutes ago, bobcoss said:

It seems like they L6 is trying to make this more like a traditional tube guitar amp with a separate preamp and power amp with the ability to put pedals in front or between them.   Seeing the the different types of amps listed, they maybe be doing some power amp modeling to make the 4cm suggested in the pilots guide authentic.  And I see that there are thee types of cabinets selectable in the remote app.  So if you are plugging a Helix or HXS directly into the return as is also suggested in the pilots guide, there must be some difference in selecting amp model types that should effect the sound coming from the power amp and speaker section.

 

I haven't seen anyone talk about that or show any results of testing yet, but I would want to know that is the case before I bought it to use as an alternative to the powercab variants.   If it's true, it would be a great option to use in place of a powercab.

 

I'm tempted to get one to play with, but I have a Helix and Powercabs, so I don't know that I would get any benefit from this.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

 

I will stick with my decision to get the Powercab 112+ then (to work with a HX Stomp)

[usedbyanr]

10 minutes ago, bobcoss said:

It seems like they L6 is trying to make this more like a traditional tube guitar amp with a separate preamp and power amp with the ability to put pedals in front or between them.   Seeing the the different types of amps listed, they maybe be doing some power amp modeling to make the 4cm suggested in the pilots guide authentic.  And I see that there are thee types of cabinets selectable in the remote app.  So if you are plugging a Helix or HXS directly into the return as is also suggested in the pilots guide, there must be some difference in selecting amp model types that should effect the sound coming from the power amp and speaker section.

 

I haven't seen anyone talk about that or show any results of testing yet, but I would want to know that is the case before I bought it to use as an alternative to the powercab variants.   If it's true, it would be a great option to use in place of a powercab.

 

I'm tempted to get one to play with, but I have a Helix and Powercabs, so I don't know that I would get any benefit from this.

 

I don't have enough experience to say whether they are modeling the power amp or not. If I had to make a guess I would say the amp models are emulating it and the hardware power amp is relatively clean. I think you would want that so your XLR out sounds like your amp and the modeler input also doesn't have a lot of coloring. The three types of cabs are just different configurations (1x12, 2x12, 4x12) rather than speaker types. I'm too inexperienced to know the difference between them other than volume and possibly bottom end. It seems more like a simple shortcut for your front of house signal rather than micing it yourself. The pilot's guide suggests that plugging in your modeler bypasses the preamp unless you don't have the switch set properly. I would think it would sound horrible with a modeler plugged into the effects return and the switch not set to power amp unless you were just using it for pedal emulation. I wish we knew more about the speaker. 

 

[xSUITTOx]

I bought the line 6 Catalyst 2x12 200 Watt, the front grill is very lose, you can see the frame its over.  Wanted at add a picture, but it was to large to attach. Doesn't look to good. Wonder how it going to sag aging.

 

[littlespaceman]

I have both a PowerCab 112+ and a Cat 60w. I've recently had a chance to compare them directly, using a modeller (Headrush) as I wondered if I could get rid of the PC, because the Catalyst would do it all - be an easy to use every day amp that I can plug in to and play when I've got a spare 15 minutes, but also be a great way to give a modeller the 'amp in the room' feel. 

 

My first impressions are, sadly, that no, the Cat is not a replacement for the PC; it's easier to use (less cables etc to plug in for a quick jam, and as I've discovered if you have young kids, time is precious, a rig that takes even 60 seconds to plug in and play doesn't get used much!) but the PowerCab sounded noticeably better, IMHO; the Cat sounded slightly muddier in comparison. I'll try it some more using the Global EQ on the Headrush (which of course slightly defeats the point, because ideally you've done all that in each patch in your modeller, and don't want to have to do it again) but I'd say If you only had the Cat then you'll probably be really happy with it as a power amp. But if you compare the two, the PC sounds much better. Again, this is all IMHO of course.

 

ps, I would say that if you have both, the Cat makes a nice/cheap second speaker for a (slightly coloured) stereo rig

[macguitarman]

@littlespaceman

Interesting.... I have a PC 112 +, and I like it, the issue is, it's not a pure amp... So I have to pull out my HX Stomp pedal board and set the whole damn thing up, takes 15 minutes at least. I am thinking of selling the PC 112 +, get a Catalyst 100, and just use that as a practice amp... Guitar > one cable > Catalyst, plug and play in 30 seconds, next to my couch. Leave the HX Stomp connected to my UA Apollo twin studio setup. For a gig, then hook up the pedal board HX Stomp, with my cool amp / IR presets into the Power Amp In / Return on the Catalyst... It may not be the exact PC 112 +, but I am thinking, it will be very close, like 95-99 %....