Marco-L6 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Just put a ticket in to support: I have bought the Native plugin at a discount after buying my Helix. Now I want to sell my Helix, buy an HX Stomp and transfer my Native licence to that. I’ve been told by support that I’ll have to give my current Native plugin licence away and buy another copy when I register the HX Stomp. This seems quite outrageous to me. Am I wrong to feel this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PierM Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 As far as I know and learned over here, that Native license isn't going anywhere once you sold your Helix hardware. So in theory you don't have to do anything. That Native will should still works. ...unless they changed the rules. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 I believe the intent of the discount program is for Helix Native and a Helix device to be used in tandem. Understandably, Line 6 wants to discourage the practice of anyone buying a Helix device, claiming the Helix Native discount, and then immediately returning their device to the retailer for full refund. So the status of the Helix Native license depends on the timing of its purchase and the subsequent sale of the associated device. I think you need to retain ownership of your Helix device for some time (180 days I believe) after purchasing Helix Native at the discounted price before your Helix Native license becomes permanently vested with your Line 6 account. Meanwhile the Helix Native license remains associated with the device. After that period you can sell your Helix device and you have the option to transfer your Helix Native license to the new owner, which of course means you can command a higher selling price. Or you can keep your Helix Native license and the new owner of the Helix device is unable to claim the discount. If you return or sell your Helix device during that period your Helix Native license is revoked (I.e. removed from your Line 6 account and ‘given away’ in the language of Line 6 Support since the license remains with the device) and the new owner may claim the discount. Of course in practical terms Line 6 doesn’t know that you returned or sold your device; they will only revoke your license when the new owner registers the device with what used to be your serial number. It sounds like you may be wanting to sell your Helix device within the specified time period. Is that the case? If so your Helix Native license is not yet permanently vested with you; it remains associated with your Helix device. Accordingly you can sell your device at a higher price and use that to purchase a new discounted Helix Native license associated with your new HX Stomp. Alternatively you could keep your current Helix device until your Helix Native license is permanently vested with you, sell it later at a lower price, and not have to purchase a new Helix Native license when you get your HX Stomp. In that scenario a discounted and unused Helix Native license remains associated with your HX Stomp which increases its resale value. At least, that’s the way I understand it. Could be wrong. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PierM Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 There is only one thing better than L6 forums; The Helix Native license agreement...which nobody never really seen. We do keep passing down the tale, from one generation to another. :D 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 On 3/31/2022 at 11:23 AM, PierM said: There is only one thing better than L6 forums; The Helix Native license agreement...which nobody never really seen. We do keep passing down the tale, from one generation to another. :D I heard that excessive use of Helix Native gives you hairy palms... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ju1c3 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 On 3/31/2022 at 7:23 PM, Marco-L6 said: Just put a ticket in to support: I have bought the Native plugin at a discount after buying my Helix. Now I want to sell my Helix, buy an HX Stomp and transfer my Native licence to that. I’ve been told by support that I’ll have to give my current Native plugin licence away and buy another copy when I register the HX Stomp. This seems quite outrageous to me. Am I wrong to feel this? Hard to tell given the lack of information, like how long you've owned the hardware, WHY support told you what they did, and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 As mentioned above, you need to keep the hardware for at least 180 days in order to keep your discounted Native license. I believe if you sell or return the hardware before that, you have two options - pay the full price for the Native license or give it up. The 180 days is dictated by the fact that some retailers have return periods that long. https://shop.line6.com/helixnativeterms.html?_ga=2.217000916.318870466.1647483881-1112218623.1520903176 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 As said, if you've kept your Helix for 180 days, just sell it (though the Native license won't transfer), buy the Stomp and continue using Native. Should you sell your Stomp, the license associated with it will be unused, so it will give it better resale value. FYI, you can't sell or gift the discount 1-time license. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 On 3/31/2022 at 8:07 AM, silverhead said: I believe the intent of the discount program is for Helix Native and a Helix device to be used in tandem. Understandably, Line 6 wants to discourage the practice of anyone buying a Helix device, claiming the Helix Native discount, and then immediately returning their device to the retailer for full refund. So the status of the Helix Native license depends on the timing of its purchase and the subsequent sale of the associated device. I think you need to retain ownership of your Helix device for some time (180 days I believe) after purchasing Helix Native at the discounted price before your Helix Native license becomes permanently vested with your Line 6 account. Meanwhile the Helix Native license remains associated with the device. After that period you can sell your Helix device and you have the option to transfer your Helix Native license to the new owner, which of course means you can command a higher selling price. Or you can keep your Helix Native license and the new owner of the Helix device is unable to claim the discount. If you return or sell your Helix device during that period your Helix Native license is revoked (I.e. removed from your Line 6 account and ‘given away’ in the language of Line 6 Support since the license remains with the device) and the new owner may claim the discount. Of course in practical terms Line 6 doesn’t know that you returned or sold your device; they will only revoke your license when the new owner registers the device with what used to be your serial number. It sounds like you may be wanting to sell your Helix device within the specified time period. Is that the case? If so your Helix Native license is not yet permanently vested with you; it remains associated with your Helix device. Accordingly you can sell your device at a higher price and use that to purchase a new discounted Helix Native license associated with your new HX Stomp. Alternatively you could keep your current Helix device until your Helix Native license is permanently vested with you, sell it later at a lower price, and not have to purchase a new Helix Native license when you get your HX Stomp. In that scenario a discounted and unused Helix Native license remains associated with your HX Stomp which increases its resale value. At least, that’s the way I understand it. Could be wrong. On 3/31/2022 at 5:43 PM, phil_m said: As mentioned above, you need to keep the hardware for at least 180 days in order to keep your discounted Native license. I believe if you sell or return the hardware before that, you have two options - pay the full price for the Native license or give it up. The 180 days is dictated by the fact that some retailers have return periods that long. https://shop.line6.com/helixnativeterms.html?_ga=2.217000916.318870466.1647483881-1112218623.1520903176 Doesn't a 180 "vesting" period introduce a rather subtle risk to original owners when reselling their device? Let's say you resell your device within the 180 day vesting period, making it clear to the buyer that you are selling it without the Native discount - you intend to keep Native. The seller then transfers ownership of the resold device to the new buyer with Line6, and accidentally, knocks out the seller's Native license in the process. So, let's say Line6 blindly applies the 180 day vesting period policy for Native, regardless of the deal struck between buyer and seller. Caution to anyone reselling their HX device within 180 days. Caveat Venditor if you own a discounted version of Native. Even after informing the new owner that you are selling your device for less because you are keeping your Native license, you could still theoretically have that license yanked out from under you according to the vesting policy. I would hope Line6 would have some sort of method to remedy or prevent this scenario but perhaps not. Maybe it is as simple as the original owner of the device not transferring the serial number for 180 days to the new buyer. Seems like that could get messy if the new owner requires a warrantied repair within the 180 days, or if the new buyer was unaware they needed to wait out the vesting period before fully transferring ownership. If the post by @silverheadand @phil_m accurately describe how the policy works, it means there is a risk of losing your Native license, whether you return your device to the store, or resell it within 180 days to a third party. It just would appear to make more sense for the vesting period to apply only to device returns, not reselling. So tricky to enforce for reselling. Btw, does the 180 day vesting period clock restart if the second owner buys Native with an unused discount? I would assume not, since the new owner can't return it having bought it on the resale market rather than from a store, or can they? They are still within 180 days. Anyway, happy to have been able to add to the confusion :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 It's complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 On 4/1/2022 at 1:31 AM, HonestOpinion said: ….. Let's say you resell your device within the 180 day vesting period, making it clear to the buyer that you are selling it without the Native discount - you intend to keep Native…. You don’t have that option. Your Helix Native license is not yours yet; it remains with the device and is temporarily assigned to your Line 6 account. If the device is re-registered by the new owner within 180 days the temporary license is removed from your Line 6 account. You have no say in the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 I've witnessed pro-life debates that didn't go on this long.... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 They're complicated too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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