Helix 3.8 - That's it?

[gsmanon]

On 11/21/2024 at 1:34 AM, trhx said:

The real Bogner Ecstasy is a $3500 amp that has more knobs, buttons and switches than any amp I've ever seen, so I'm betting they spent as much time to create that one amp as it takes to create a dozen simpler amps. I don't know if I'll use the Helix version, but I bet a lot of people will.

So I'd look at this as a quality over quantity situation. After all, whatever favorite amps you have in the Helix so far, aren't you glad they got them right?

I am glad they got them right, but tbh, I very much doubt there's specific sound that comes out of these new amps that make them super distinguishable from others. 

Amps aren't much more than a bunch of slightly differently ordered gain and EQ stages (see Jim Lill if you want proof), a lot of which are slightly varied clones of one another anyway, so although I'm sure the new amp models are very faithful to the original, I'm not entirely sold that they add a significant new capability to the Helix unit. Yeah, it's neat for someone who knows that specific amp to have that familiarity in the Helix, but for most other people it's just yet another high-gain option among many that already exist.

I would just really have liked to see some updates that add new features allowing you to make sounds that are simply impossible before the update. For example, adding LFOs and envelope followers would be a ridiculously simply addition, yet would open up infinitely many sonic options that don't currently exist - and the DSP mathematics behind them is extremely simple, so there's no technical reason it couldn't be done with little effort, and it's something that's been on the feature request list for almost as long as the Helix has existed. I just can't wrap my head around why software companies don't take on such low hanging fruit. 
 

[Guitarmaniac64]

On 11/20/2024 at 4:59 AM, gsmanon said:

Yes, really. Because in previous updates, they've released enough new amps to show that they CAN model an amp on a much shorter time frame than 6 per 10 months. 

Umm, yes. I presume Line 6 have something like a dynamount mic stand and a suitable space to capture IRs. It literally takes a few seconds to do an IR sweep/capture, so to then multiply that few seconds by the number of mic positions/mics/angles etc should add up to a few hours. Let's be generous and give them 8 weeks. Certainly not 10 months worth of work, and again, they've released WAY more new cabs in the past on MUCH shorter time frames in the past.

Uhh, yes. Again, certainly not 10 months worth of work to debug a few user-reported bugs. And why are they waiting until 3.8 to release bug fixes? Bug fix releases should be done as and when each bug is fixed.

 

Yes, I'm a software developer. Any software developer that's worked inside an organisation before will tell you the same thing - it's not the technical task which causes development to take so much time, but instead the bureaucracy, the management, the HR, the office politics, the failure to take user feedback into account, and it's more than allowed to criticise companies for allowing that nonsense to result in such poor outcomes. 

"Entitlement"? No. I paid for a product, I am allowed my opinion about it, and just because an update is free doesn't mean negative opinions are not allowed. If it was entitlement then I'd also mind if they just never released an update ever again, but that's not the case. If the choose to say "no more updates", I'd be fine with that. But so long as they do continue to make updates, presumably with the intention of exciting the existing userbase to continue using and therefore advertising their product/encouraging new user base/retaining their position at the leading edge of amp sims, then I'm allowed to pass comment on whether it achieved that goal for me. In this case, it did not. 

I'd also be happy to pay for more significant updates, as long as it's reasonably priced and the offering is significant.

 

Everytime i read yes i am a software developer i always laugh as mostly they dont develop AUDIO software or DSP software which is very different to develop computer software.

The Bogner amp alone with all switches on both channels must have taking several months to code correctly.

And a.f.ai.k they are only a few coders (2-3 its Ben Adrian,Sam i forgot his surname and i think one more the one who call himself thebishopgame) that do the amps so yeah it takes time and as Line6 continue to release new hardware that use the HX engine add HX Native to that list and it will take longer and longer for every update

You cant compare to some other company that maybe has 2-3 hardware units and not even a plugin.

 

If Line6 only had Helix Floor LT and Rack and maybe Native it would be alot easyer But they have Stomp;StompXL,One,HX Effects,Pod-Go and the bloody editor that doesnt work as it loose connection all the time add all bloody bugs that pop up after every update.

[craiganderton]

On 11/20/2024 at 9:13 PM, gsmanon said:

For example, adding LFOs and envelope followers would be a ridiculously simply addition

 

I like LFOs and envelopes, but there are effects with LFOs and envelope followers, so I assume you have some other application for these types of modulators in mind. If what you want is a synth-like matrix modulation architecture, that would be cool but I don't know how easy it would be to shoehorn that into an architecture that wasn't designed to do matrix modulation. But maybe that's not what you mean.

 

On 11/20/2024 at 9:13 PM, gsmanon said:

Amps aren't much more than a bunch of slightly differently ordered gain and EQ stages

 

For guitar, I use the Helix almost exclusively for multiband applications. In that context, the more amps, the better. The amp sound is more defined and distinctive because there's so much less intermodulation distortion. Under those conditions, you can really hear the significant differences between amps, especially when they interact with each other and you change the bias/sag/ripple parameters. Pulling drive back to get clean sounds also highlights the differences.

 

Of course, if you put wideband audio through a single high-gain amp and turn up drive, that blurs the differences quite a bit. But, Helix is flexible enough that I don't need to do that. I can create "Frankenamps" with an AC30 and drive pulled back for the high end, WhoWatt for the upper mids, Mandarin for the lower mids, and German Mahadeva for the lows. Each amp has a distinct individual sound that contributes to the overall mixed/collective sound, as well as a stereo image.

 

If I want to modulate parameters with LFOs and envelope followers, although the following isn't applicable to live performance, at least I can do that in a DAW using MIDI controllers. Several DAWs allow creating periodic modulation envelopes, which you can stretch and shape.

 

[On a completely different topic, since you sound like you're into modulation, you might want to check out Bitwig if you haven't already. It's more like a modular synth than a DAW, where anything can modulate anything. It's pretty cool. It also supports the DAWproject format, so you can start a project in Bitwig and then import it into Cubase or Studio One.] 

 

[SaschaFranck]

On 11/21/2024 at 4:13 AM, gsmanon said:

For example, adding LFOs and envelope followers would be a ridiculously simply addition

 

So, you're saying you have a programming background and then come up with a statement like this? That's quite pathetic.

[OmegaSlayer]

I think that the Helix has at least 5 years of gas and fun for non touring musicians

What I'd want is an ADA MP1 and a Randall RG100...and a nicer synth

 

And I think it's stupid to release a new device in this day and age where everything is more pricey than it should be, unless it's produced in China

[SaschaFranck]

On 11/21/2024 at 9:22 AM, OmegaSlayer said:

And I think it's stupid to release a new device in this day and age where everything is more pricey than it should be, unless it's produced in China

 

The Helix is produced in China. Just as pretty much any other modeler.

[stapani]

On 11/19/2024 at 8:28 PM, gsmanon said:

Considering it's been nearly a full year since the last update, 3.8's addition of a meagre "6 new amps, 4 new cabs, 1 new effect, and bug fixes" is very disappointing. 

 

I really was expecting new features/workflow enhancements/bringing it up to par with rivals in different ways, not just a few more amps and cabs. 

 

I hope we don't have to wait another year before a significant update to the platform. Like most music software companies, they seem immune to taking on board user feature requests. 

Digital Igloo wrote this months ago: 3.80 will be quite a bit smaller than 3.70, but people have been clamoring for at least two of its amps for a long time. 

[Elephantstomp]

Wtf, "3.8, that´s it?"

It´s about all of it, 3.8 included.

THAT´S IT!

There is a whole world of gear since the beginning of rock´n´roll up to now within my stomp.

Not to speak about all that extra gear you would need for switching/routing all that stuff compared to analog.

Endless possibilities...but people focus on what´s not in there.

If you are a "musician" and care about tools to express your creativity, you should be happily covered.

If you suffer from GAS (HX Stomp cured me) and can´t stop thinking about new stuff you won´t ever be happy.

Write good music, play and enjoy! I can´t imagine that the lack of something within this unit could hold anyone back from this.

 

 

[theElevators]

If you suffer from GAS, rather than buying new gear, just completely re-do your signal chain with a new amp, that you hadn't used before.  Just start completely from scratch.  Do that.  I do that with every new project that I do--just try to come up with something new and exciting from the "vast plethora" of bells and whistles. 

 

I'm really amused by the anger that 3.8 wasn't full of features like previous updates.  Before Line 6 and Kemper started regularly updating the firmware, people would buy a piece of gear and use it as it was for years, with very rare exceptions whenever a bug needed to be fixed.  I have 2006 Nord Electro 2 keyboard, for example... it came with firmware loaded onto it.  I still use it with that original firmware.  Ain't broke, no need to fix it. 

 

Meanwhile, Helix has gotten so much stuff since 2015.  I think people have been spoiled, really.  I was on 3.11 for the longest time because I didn't need anything new, as I was playing the same songs for which I had built my presets.  But then I decided to recreate one of my Pod Go preset on the Helix, and realized that it didn't have that one reverb block that really made the song.  So only then I finally updated my firmware to 3.7.  And I have no desire to upgrade to 3.8 just for the sake of upgrading. 

 

I especially don't see the need for all these specific flavors of amps/distortions/cabinets.  All amps can be tweaked to sound like anything you want, especially digital models of them. You can put compressors, EQ between amp and cab and create something that doesn't exist in the physical world.