DunedinDragon

The amazing thing to me about the Helix is how much better you get at working with it over time. I've had mine for a bit more than a year and I've learned so many new ways of doing things and getting great tones that I would never have imagined when I first started off with it. That's what makes it fun...is growing with the capabilities.

It might not mean that much to a lot of us simply because we don't really depend on CustomTone for much. I guess if you're new to the game it might seem more important. But just download the tone and see if it works for you. If not, either adjust it to fit your situation or trash it and move on. There are so many variations on pickups I'm not sure humbucker or single coil means that much quite frankly. A gen 4 noiseless single coil isn't exactly a single coil when it's wired in series. It acts more like a humbucker. And a humbucker isn't exactly the same as a Filtert'ron even though they share some design characteristics. Not to mention split coil and in-phase/out-of-phase arrangements. If you're uploadind just add a comment. If your downloading, look at comments people have added. That says WAY more than any icon anyway. Personally I'd prefer Line 6 spend their manhours providing more capabilities for the Helix than worrying about a somewhat meaningless icon on CustomTone.

This may be a situation in which "If all you know is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail". Snapshots are a great addition to the abilities of the Helix. However they aren't a great fit for some things. Particularly for a lot of cover bands. Of course not all cover bands are the same. For example tribute bands that focus on one artist would benefit from something like this because they're dealing with one predominant type of sound. But in most cover bands the range of material really precludes a single snapshot as a viable alternative and is the reason many of us prefer to have a preset for each song. Or sometimes a preset for each style of song at least. For example, look at a set that might contain songs by Bad Company, Steeley Dan, AC/DC, Green Day, Johnny Cash, Elvis, James Taylor, Funkadelic, The Ramones, The Who, Queen, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Rolling Stones, and the Beatles. To do this group of songs justice you're probably looking at at least two guitar changes, but probably three, and likely four or five different amp models. You can see how you would quickly run out of DSP in a single snapshot just to cover this one set. And once you add in the need to change guitars, unless you have a Variax in the picture the principle value of snapshots which is no delay in switching becomes less of a factor. And that's just one set. You still have 3 more to go. To me the value of the Helix is that I can provide authenticity in my sound for different artists songs and that's a LOT easier to do with individual presets than it is with a snapshot when dealing with a wide range of material.

I'm in pretty much the same boat with the OP in that 99% of what I do is live, and we cover a very wide range of styles so something like the Helix is critical in allowing me to go from a Santana sound to a Joe Walsh sound to a Queen sound to a George Benson sound to a Keith Urban sound to a Chet Atkins sound to a James Brown sound....and so forth. And have them all sound authentic. The key that allows this type of flexibility is based on the ability to use the correct amp, correct cabinet, correct mic and of course correct effects for each different type of style. Could you use the effect return into the Peavey to achieve this. Yes, definitely. But there is an inherent limitation. The Peavey cabinet is going to add it's own flavor and coloration to the sound of the Helix cab and mic models since it's not an FRFR system. Likewise, if you want to go direct from the Helix to the FOH, the sound on the FOH speakers will be different from the Peavey because they are FRFR speakers and will accurately represent what's in the Helix patch including the modeled amp, cabinet, and mic. Of course you could opt to simply mic the Peavey cabinet, but the output of the Helix signal chain is a mic'd cabinet. Therefore you would be mic'ing a representation of a mic'd cabinet. These are the reasons I and others like me opt to use FRFR speakers. When I design my patch I know I'm hearing an accurate representation of what I designed into the patch. It won't get any additional tonal treatment or colorations. I also know with some degree of certainty that what I hear will be what my audience hears whether I'm going direct from my Helix to the board, or simply using the FRFR speaker in a smaller venue. It will sound the same every time regardless of the setup. The main consideration in going this direction is you have to think about your tone differently. The way I look at it is I'm bringing a studio level quality tone to the live stage. That is not the same as a traditional live amp sound. It's a polished studio sound, and some people have a hard time adjusting to that. The audience doesn't have a problem with it because they're used to hearing polished studio sound, but it is annoying to some players that can't adjust to the difference. Bottom line is, you have to figure out what it is YOU want and need out of the Helix to decide if FRFR is for you or not.

I have a pair of HS7's which have been the workhorse speakers of my recording setup for years and do a pretty decent job of giving me a good full range response. Your THR10 has two 3.15" speakers which are physically incapable of giving you anything close to the FRFR type of response in a PA system, so yes...in all likelihood you would have a WTF moment when you plugged into a PA. There's some groundwork here you need to understand. FRFR isn't a standard so to speak. It simply means there's a relatively flat response across the entire usable frequency spectrum used in live performance. Two FRFR setups will likely sound similar, but not exactly the same as one may favor some frequency range a bit over another. Studio monitors can be considered to be FRFR, but they work very differently in most cases from standard live music FRFR speakers. They're designed to give you a sound that fills a listening area such as a living room or a car, not a stage in a large venue filled with people. Live music FRFR speakers are designed specifically to project sound over long distances with less degradation of the energy. This can make them sound a bit harsher to the ear up close, but in a larger venue will sound fairly normal as the sound energy dissipates across the crowd and venue area. For myself, I use a Yamaha DXR12 as the monitor for building my patches because I know that's going to be a closer match to the sound that will be coming out of the PA speakers which in our case normally is a QSC KLA12 Line Array system. That way I'm pretty confident in knowing what the audience will hear. Although you could use something like an HS5 you may still be in for some surprises when you go through the PA. Depending on how you place the HS5's and how you have them setup they may have more bass response than what the PA will have due to the bass porting of the cabinets. Likewise the high end is produced from a 1" dome tweeter in comparison to a horn and compression driver used by most PA speakers. That means you may end up cutting too much bass and not enough high end once you plug in through a PA. As for myself, I use my DXR12 when I build my patches and I maintain a reasonable level of volume to be able to hear the response. I'm also careful to stand about 5 or 6 feet from the speaker so I don't get fooled by the harshness of the horn response up close. But that's the best way I've found to ensure the patch I've created will sound the same to the audience listening through the PA. It won't be in stereo, but it's probably unlikely the'll allocate the two channels on the board to accommodate a stereo signal anyway. Most sound people don't want to be bothered with that because they know most of the audience won't really hear the stereo separation once the sound gets 15 or 20 feet from the stage anyway. Anyway, that's my approach but it comes from not only being a guitar player but also a sound man.

In this case probably yes. The Helix driver is an ASIO driver which is a direct audio interface and doesn't use the typical operating system audio overhead that is used in more general purpose drivers. I know that certainly applies in the PC world. I'm not so sure about the Mac world, but it's likely so.

I'm wouldn't be too quick to advocate changing the IR block processing even if it is a bit brighter because you have the think about the bigger picture. There are some combinations of amps, guitar, and IR that don't even need any high cut. What happens to them? Will they get darker or more muddy? It's probably pretty easy to take out frequencies, but it becomes a lot more challenging and artificial if you need to add them back in for some reason. If I were to advocate anything I might thing a better approach would be to add another parameter to the IR block that allows you to adjust the slope on the high cut and low cut parameters. That would be the most flexible way to do it. Therefore I took the opportunity to add it to IdeaScale. Regardless of the discussions here, I think it would add a nice capability to the platform. You can vote it up at the link below: https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Adjustable-Slope-Parameter-for-IR-Blocks/869790-23508?submitted=1

I own two DXR12's. I go from the 1/4 inch L/Mono out of the Helix into the L/Mono in on the DXR. If you intend to use it in the floor monitor position like I do you should select the "Monitor" position on the D-contour switch to correct for bass buildup. I also set the High Pass Filter (HPF) to 125Hz which tends to reduce the need for lo cut filters on my patches in the Helix. If you're not getting enough bass response you could drop the HPF to 100 Hz. Bear in mind, however, that the FOH speaker system may or may not have the same cutoff points on the their crossover or lo cut filters, so it's not a bad idea to set up your lo cuts on the helix separately just in case. I keep the Level on the Line input set at unity which is the 12 o'clock position and control my output via the large Main Volume knob on the Helix. And that's about it. For your reference, I've included the response profile characteristics of the DXR series speaker line below. You'll notice there tends to be quite a bump on the low end down around the 100 Hz area as well as one up above about 9000Hz. You can see that both of those are somewhat mitigated on the graph when you're using the D-Contour in the Monitor position. There really aren't any hard and fast rules about high and low cuts since that really depends on what type of guitar you're using, what amp model is being used, what cabinets, what mic's, and the position of those mics. That's why I don't do anything with the global settings in that regard and just adjust it per patch. Personally I find I have to do more with the high and low cuts with the Helix stock cabinets than I do when using certain types of 3rd party IRs. If the bass isn't sounding tight enough for your taste you can raise your low cut up to 130 or 140 to eliminate that in most cases, but raising the Bias on the amp can help as well. The high cuts are much more fluid depending on the guitar, amp model, cab, mic, and mic placement. As I said I tend to use less high cuts with certain IR's such as OwnHammer and the Celestion IRs. With OwnHammer IRs I tend to use mic placements in the 5, 6, or 7 positions which are midpoint out from the cone toward the edge. With the Celestions I use either the Balanced, Dark, Dark2, or Fat positions. Again all of these are highly depended on the type of guitar and amp model. There are cases such as when I use a Les Paul with the German Mahadeva (Bogner Shiva) model paired up with the Celestion 2x12 Alnico Blue Balanced IR that I don't even use a high cut. With brighter setups such as a Telecaster going through a Soldono using Celestion Creambacks I generally end up cutting highs at around 3.8 Khz. So all of this will have to come down to your ears and what you want the audience to hear. The good news about the DXR series is they tend to have the same response profile as 90% of the modern PA speakers on the market, so what you setup and are hearing from the DXR will be very much like what the audience will be hearing out front. https://www.yamahacommercialaudiosystems.com/downloads/block_level/dxr_frequency_response.pdf

It's possible it's a ground loop problem, dirty power line, or it could also be electromagnetic interference (EMI) since it seems to only effect the gain channels of the Trilogy. Ground loop is easy to fix if you just use a power strip from a single power plug and plug both the Trilogy and the Helix into it. Alternatively you could carry a couple of spare Ebtech Hum X plugs around with you and plug those in between the two units. Dirty (or noisy) power lines and EMI would be a bit tougher. Neither of those things tend to affect the Helix since it's digital, but they'll play heck with a tube power amp. I guess you could check the shielding on the Trilogy and see if something could be done there.

I'd be a bit cautious about whether the IR processing in the Helix is different when comparing it to recorded IR's. I know that recorded guitars in my Sonar sound a bit darker than my live IR's do through my DXR12. I'm not saying it's not true, just that there are some differences beyond just the IR processing. I agree with you that I'm less worried about that than I am just getting the right combination for my live performances. I will reiterate that what I've experienced in terms of high cuts varies considerably based on the guitar I'm using, the amp model, and the particular IR. For example I have a patch that I use with my Les Paul that incorporates a German Mahadeva amp with a Celestion Blue Alnico balanced IR that uses a Sennheiser MD421 mic that needs no high cut at all. I guess bottom line it still comes down to your ears and simply knowing what to listen for when making these high cut decisions.

But that's actually the point, at least for me. What I want coming through the PA should be relatively close to what's coming through my FRFR speaker. Undoubtedly the close-mic sound of any of those amps would be different through the PA. But the advantage we have with the FRFR speakers is we can have a more natural amp sound through the PA by making some adjustments in the signal chain to get closer to the sound we would hear in a room. If it sounds great through the FRFR speakers, it should sound great through the PA (given you're working with a decent PA).

If you're going into the Orange's guitar input from the Helix, even if it's a dry signal it's a pre-amped dry signal from the Helix which is well above the normal input range of a guitar port. Additionally, the signal is then being routed through the Micro Terror's pre-amp stage and then it's amplifier stage, so you're dealing with a double pre-amped signal. I'd be surprised if you DIDN'T have a lot of noise. Probably the easiest way to accomplish what you want is to take a second signal wet or dry out of the Helix into an FRFR powered speaker and get your sustain off of that.

I think he's just comparing plugging into the amp and playing and plugging into the Helix through his JBL EONs and playing. At least that's how I've made my comparisons. Although that's not actually a good direct comparison since going through the Helix and an IR means you're incorporating a mic along with the placement of the mic which you're not doing when going straight through the amp. But there's no doubt there's more upper end harshness in many cases when going through the Helix and most IRs.

I think mic and mic placement also has a bit to do with how much you might need to cut, and it seems to vary a bit with the amp model as well. There are some combinations of amp models and IRs that need little to no adjustment particularly when overdriven, but most seem to. I've come to the conclusion this likely has more to do with the difference in the design of the speaker cabinets in that powered speakers like your JBL or my Yamaha DXR have a LOT more sound energy coming out of the front and almost no energy loss at the back of the cabinet. I've noticed when I turn the speaker down, when I stand back away from the speaker, or when I capture it in a recording it's a lot less harsh on the high end, which seems to indicate that some of it is in the way we hear these speakers.

I think most of us have those moments where we get frustrated with our playing. But I think that's a good thing because we react by working on our skills to improve them. What would be bad is to be annoyed but not be motivated to do anything about it.

I think this is why we seem to be drawn back to your input level setting for your guitar as that would have an effect on all your patches. It's not as much about what type of pickups you're using as it is about whether the setting for inputs on your Helix match them.

I would still encourage you to take PeterHamm up on his offer to let him look at your patch. He's very knowledgeable and should be able to see if there's something odd set there. Like yourself, there are many of us that were using HD500X's before coming to the Helix and are being quite successful with it. It's worth having someone like Peter look at your patch and give you some specific ideas. One other thing I'm curious about is your pickups and if you have the Helix set appropriately for their output.

Could it be that the fourth patch is actually being sent stereo as compared to the other two patches and the hiss is an artifact of that?

I already have two Yamaha DXR12s that I'm perfectly happy with. My interest in the Firehawk is really three-fold. It could work as an alternative to the DXRs if necessary, but it could also be a viable backup should the Helix go down for some reason. Also there are some occasions where I play out with some other local musicians and we don't put the instruments through the PA. The FH might be useful in that situation. However, since I already have a functional system with the DXR12s and some of the issues being talked about here I'm going to have to do some real investigation about whether this would be worth it or not. I may just wait until one of the local music stores has one in stock so I can go play with it and see for myself. At this point I'm pretty skeptical. It appears this is another instance of Line 6 not thinking very clearly about a product integrating seamlessly with it's other products. It literally should be no more hassle plugging the Helix into the FH than it is plugging it into a DXR.

Yeah...that's what I'm talking about. That's in the android app under settings?

I'm a bit confused by the statement "when set to mono" as I see nothing in the documentation of that being a setting. Are you saying just going into the L/Mono monitor input? Or is there some other setting?

I'm seriously considering getting a Firehawk 1500 to use with my Helix. But I recently noticed a discussion regarding how the speakers get reconfigured when you come into the FH via the monitor in plugs. Particularly that the horn gets disabled. Here's the deal though. I have no intention of using the stereo facilities unless I'm maybe using the FH alone and not connected to a PA. Otherwise I would connect as I do to my standard monitor using the left mono channel. I'm not sure what effect this has over how the speakers get used. I know that there are some people here using the FH1500 with the Helix and I'm curious how you connect to it.

It has less to do with the FRFR and more to do with gaining some knowledge about cabinets, mic and mic placement. This is one of the reasons many of us have opted to use IRs because the variety of mic and mic placement variations that come with the cabinets can resolve 95% of the issues you run into using native cabs which have a nice assortment of mics, but is very limited in how the mic can be placed. As cruisinon2 mentioned, the sound of a cabinet gets warmer and less harsh the further out from the center the mic is placed. Some microphones such as an SM57 tend to pick up less of the harsh frequencies or at least mitigate them more than other mics at the cost of having less dynamic range. The more you learn about mics and mic placements you can pretty easily determine what variation of IR is going to best suit what you're trying to play. Bear in mind also that most powered live monitor type speakers will sound more harsh the closer you are to them. This is why you place PA speakers a ways away from the listener so the high and low frequencys blend together a bit better. Typically about 5 feet or so will give you a better feel for the sound being produced. This isn't as big a problem with studio speakers as they use tweeter speakers rather than horns for high frequencies and aren't really designed for long distance projection of sound. I realize this can be very frustrating given what many guitarists have become used to of simply plugging into combo amp or amp with speakers. But it's just a little bit of additional knowledge regarding live sound that sound people already know, but is necessary to understand in order to best exploit the full range of capabilities in modern modeling units like the Helix.

That would be known as the Spider V amps.

There are quite a number of us here that play live every week using the Helix. In my case I cover a pretty significant range of styles from rock, to R&B, funk, blues, jazz and country and I've never felt as capable or as confident in handling that range of material on any other setups as much as I do with my current one. But the Helix is highly dependent upon what type of output you decide to use with it and the type of people you play with. My rig consists of a Yamaha DXR12 as my output speaker which I position behind me on the floor as a monitor in a traditional amp fashion with a separate line going direct into the FOH. My normal band consists of 7 people and I certainly have no problem hearing myself or not being heard by the rest of the band at any of the venues we play from medium to large bars, outside events, or proscenium stage concert events. We've been performing together for about 6 years now and and we're all experienced enough to be able to manage our stage volume reasonably and leave the heavy lifting to the FOH people so there aren't any "volume battles" on stage. I've sat in with other bands with a variety of equipment and never had any problems keeping up though. I actually have two DXR12's. One I leave at home and one stays at our rehearsal space. As mentioned before, it's really important to use the same type of system for setting up patches as what you'll be using on stage. One of the reasons I use the system I do is because it tends to match well with most FOH systems. Generally most FOH systems we use are line array systems, and the DXR12 duplicates that sound pretty well.