ColonelForbin

Yeah, I used to get *crazy* with signal splitting. I simplified, by removing three pedalboards from the equation... I used to run the 1/4" from the JTV to an all-analog pedalboard, into the HD500 guitar in, to one amp model channel, while using the VDI mags to a second amp model channel, both panned in stereo. Then I ran the FX loop out in stereo to an M13; and I also had a dry guitar signal going to a VoiceLive 3 to do pitch tracking. I sold the M13 and the VoiceLive 3; my buddy that jams with me in my band is borrowing the analog pedals and board. I am keeping that board (mostly Keeley pedals) don't miss the M13 and the VoiceLive as much - though they are both excellent pieces of gear, and for the right person, in the right rig, outstanding. I just was making a mess of things trying to sing through that stuff, and too many cables going too many places. Took way too much time to plug it all in! Also was stupid heavy to move. And took up too much floor space. Tap dance, I was doing, and not very well. I realized I prefer the VDI connection, because it offers so many cool features, from signal splitting to effect controllers. The ability to split the variax mags and models is an often overlooked, insanely powerful tool, if you use it correctly. It can be a total PITA, getting levels balanced, not easy. Though it's cool and fun to layer those different sounds together. If you are using alternate tunings, not a great option; you would have to make different patches for the alt tunings, though since the VDI is the primary connection, that's as easy as changing to a different patch, since those input settings can be either global OR on a per-patch basis.

2.) Wet / Dry: with dry guitar signal capture for studio recording purposes Couple of different ideas on how to approach this concept. Mostly thinking in terms of using this routing in recording studio. -capture a completely dry copy of both of the guitar signals; plug the JTV 1/4" into an outboard DI box and run it direct to the mixer. Then using VDI to split the variax mags and models, use the FX loop before the mag side of the amp model paths, at 50% mix to send the mags only to a DI box, to the recording mixer. (50% to allow send with no return signal) In theory that should give me two usable "dry" tracks; one of the mags, one of the models. Then, routing those two sources to the two amp models; create a "dry side" and a "wet side". Since the inputs are split in order to achieve the dry outs; probably make the mags the "Dry" amp model only side. Not running anything in stereo in this case, no using the Zoom is I am using the FX loop for signal capture; though I guess I would still need to pan left/right so the wet side doesn't get the dry side and vice versa. Wet side can get whatever effects; should be pretty easy. Would likely do similar / same amp models in both channels, though that's not crucial. More in terms of thinking along the lines of actual wet/dry, where the wet part just refers to adding stereo "post" effects to the primary amp signal and then running them into their own cabinets. If I actually wanted to run wet/dry/wet, I'd *only* need one more DT amp.... Hey now ;) Just kidding!!! Though it would be cool to get a DT25 head+cab and run that in the center as the "dry" amp with the two combos in stereo. But I digress.. My back disagrees with any idea that involves lifting more weight, so in this case "less is more" So that's idea#2: primary used to split out dry signals for studio recording, secondary purpose to split out two amps, one with effects, one without. Dry/Wet isn't precise, as typical "dry" amps still get wah, comp, drive, eq, etc. This would be: -variax mags ->amp model 1; link out amp only (left) to DT#1; -variax models -> pre effects ->amp model 2 ->post effects ->link out (right) to DT#2 What's easy / cool about using the DT's is they have a decent XLR out, so you don't have to have the amps in isolateds rooms, unless you really really need/want to mic them. I might work on some parts until they get close, then if I am not digging the XLR direct sends, try mic'ing 'em up.

I am going to make test patches for a few specific ideas: 1.) Split Variax Mags / Models into two amp models; discrete FX on each channel, stereo FX loop through Zoom pedal, stereo DT25's using L6Link: PATH 1: JTV mags -> FX#1 (wah) -> FX#2 (comp) -> FX#3 (drive/boost/distortion) -> Amp model A -> panned Left -> (FX#8) STEREO FX LOOP PATH 2: JTV models -> FX#5 (wah) -> FX#6 (comp) -> FX#7(drive/boost/distortion) -> Amp model B -> panned Right -> (FX#8) STEREO FX LOOP That basically leaves me with one EXP to control both wahs; and the other EXP to control the volume send to the FX loop. In terms of how to program the FS settings to correspond to the FX effects, I would basically just assign the FS 1-4 to the compressors, boosts, drives, distortions, etc - all the "pre" amp model effects. It also leaves me with one more effect slot, not sure where / if I would use it - would have to be a stereo effect if it occurred after the mixer block. It would also require an additional FS, either by way of going to FS 1-8 mode, or by doubling up the two comps to a single FS switch or something along those lines. I was thinking about the best way to do volume pedal, and I realized I don't need to waste two FX blocks on volume pedals; I should be able to set the FX loop send volume parameter to the EXP pedal? I presume/hope that works and will retain the stereo "split" between the inputs and amp models. Using Radatats Zoom pedal idea in the FX loop; it has a stereo noise gate, and some cool stereo delays, choruses, etc. That's idea #1: split the Variax into two signals, into two amp models, each with their own pre amp model effects, and panned in stereo, so they each go to their own DT amp, with any stereo effects from the Zoom. Reasonably complex, but overall relatively simple, due to the divided inputs / divided effects / two channel setup.

Seems like it should be pretty easy with the L6Link gear! Reading various articles on how people have done things using traditional gear. Eddie Van Halen, Jimmy Herring, Stevie Ray Vaughan. Often tricks involve doing subtle pitch shifting on one signal; or a slight delay. What's cool about using the 'Dream Rig', is that how you happen to route everything can be saved on a per-patch basis, or at least, that's my understanding. So one patch could be single amp model, full stereo. Another patch could be dual mono / wet-dry, with two amp models, using different inputs from a single JTV guitar. Another patch could be some combination of those. Right now, I am most focused on how to get a useful stereo patch concept going. Van Halen - wet / dry Van Halen - premiere guitar magazine Pete Thorn - wet / dry (* Pete comments that he just runs standard stereo now) Article Link (Stevie Ray Vaughan, equipment info) Wet / Dry rigs Multi-Amp rigs CAE wet/dry system Gibson - How to create a wet /dry rig GearPage - wet /dry Rig Talk - wet / dry L6 Forum -wet /dry thread

For me, the most important distinction, is that Firehawk doesn't have Line6Link. And I use that, so I don't choose the Firehawk. It also doesn't support the same level of patch editing; full dual channel paths, control of the parameters with the JTV controls, and a few other things like that. But the #1 issue is the Line6Link. I also wonder if it would allow things like splitting the Variax Mags and Variax Models as the 500/500x does? I would guess no. I had an X3L, sold it to fund the Hd500 back in 2010; I don't miss it or it's non-HD amp models. I recently sprung for a 500x, because my old 500 was getting slightly glitchy, and I was interested in the new model packs, and the increased DSP usage for building dual amp model patches, L6Linked to a pair of DT25's. Firehawk is a cool idea though! Makes sense they made it lesser to the HD500 series; gotta keep some amount of selling points isolated in products. If they could all do the same things and all had the same features, they wouldn't have new products to sell. Overall, the Firehawk looks pretty solid, Tons of amp models and FX; some older, some HD. If Line6Link isn't something you use or need, it's a worthy option.

Here's a multi-part question: Will the additional for-purchase model packs be available on the Firehawk? Will they cost$$, or will they be free? Will they be available at the same time as the HD500x, or delayed?

What did you go with for the 12AX7 replacement tube>?

The primary studio related benefit to going with the Pro X over the HD500x is the "dry out" output that is on the Pro X but not the 500x. The primary benefit to use the 500x is that it is a floorboard and you don't need any additional floorboards to make it go. Depending on how you build your patches, and how you use the FX loop, you can still achieve a 'dry out' though it will be analog, unless you use SPDIF, then I believe you can route the dry signal with either the 500x or the Pro X. A factor to consider is this: the primary strength of the HD500x / ProX is the AMP modeling. The FX modeling is also good; but can be supplemented if needed. For example, put an outboard pedal into the FX loop. I tried the M13 for a while in this manner, was cool, but not ideal. Radatats came up with a cool idea recently, I tried the same with mine, decent results- Zoom makes a small stomp box sized reverb / chorus / delay pedal, which also has a stereo noise gate, EQ, etc. Put that (in stereo) into the FX loop after the amp models, to expand your options, while conserving DSP. Why do I mention DSP?> Because if you are using things like dual full amp models, with DPS intensive FX, you will hit the DSP limit pretty quickly. Other folks have used other gear in a similar manner; the FX loop is in stereo, so you have quite a few options with how to route your signal. Especially as you are in studio. SO, for example, you could record your parts up to and including the amp model, while possibly using software to add additional effects in your DAW after recording. For live use, it's a different bag - in live use, you want to program everything that you need, and make it accessible with the combination of footswitches that are available. The 500x allows two primary modes of Footswitch (FS) usage: FS1-4 for FX changes + FSA,B,C,D for patch changes, -OR- FS1-8 for FX changes, and patch change using the bank up/down in combination with FS 1-4 (a two step process to change patches vs one step)

I have been ruminating on how to program two DT25's (1x12 combos) with an HD500x + JTV59. At first, I took the obvious route, and made them a simple stereo pair. Sounds awesome; can be tricky to get the two levels balanced if the two amp models are radically different. Mono pre FX -> two amp models, panned hard left/right -> and stereo post FX. More recently, started thinking about some other ways to approach that kind of rig. Another traditional setup would make one amp "dry" and the other "wet"; IE, using the Link, send one only the signal up to and including the amp model, and the other the full route of post FX. I can see that the real way to get true "stereo" is have four of these things linked - and no way I am going there. Moving just two of those 1x12 combos is heavy enough as is! For anyone considering deciding between a DT25 1x12 combo vs the head and cab, these little combos are plenty heavy. I can totally understand why folks opt to split them up into head and cab for the weight alone! Anyway, I digress. SO yeah, as I think I recall, Stevie Ray Vaughan used to do a wet / dry thing, blending his amps like that. Another idea I had was since the Variax can split the models and mags, would be cool to send one to each amp; which could occur within the stereo idea, or the wet dry idea, or some combination of the two. Also considering how to incorporate that Zoom pedal that Radatats clued me into; that pedal is awesome, very useful for adding an extra FS, reducing DSP usage, and it's stereo. I am thinking with two discrete amp models, into two DT25's it's more akin to "dual mono" than it is to actual stereo. As dual mono, I would lean toward loading all the FX into the pre-mixer spot. I suppose that would also free up the post-mixer slot for the stereo FX loop -> to the Zoom pedal, for chorus, reverbs, delays, EQ, etc. -> then out to the amps. Thinking about it as dual mono rather than stereo made for some interesting ideas. Panning is better, just send them both center. If I do the wet/dry thing, that would be pretty cool too, as would the split of variax mags / variax models. I know folks have done that alot with Studio/Direct, curious to hear from the DT crowd, especially those crazy enough to buy more than one of these amps! So yeah, that's where my head is. Band is working in studio for the last three Tuesdays', last night went well, was all the other guitarist laying down his acoustic guitar parts with a really nice Taylor. My parts are still a few weeks out, so I have some time to work on my playing, and get my tones dialed in. Just had my amps retubed with JJ's so I will keep a log of how those perform; hoping I don't have to haul them back to the shop and put EH's back in.... Dropped off my strat and JTV last week, those should be ready tomorrow. Looking like a weekend spent working and playing guitar is in my immediate future! Cheers, ya'all,

Yeah, they sold out! That Sweetwater sale actually ends today, and it was just for the black HSS JTV69. Definitely a sweet price! I missed that one, which is probably for the best, don't need anymore G.A.S. right now.. :) http://www.sweetwater.com/feature/presidents-day-sale/

Found this... 1970's Orange OR-80 and an SD Curlee Guitar: http://youtu.be/OkYY5qJ1Gqo

So, it's essentially 8 new HD guitar amp models + 2 new cabinet (JC120 and Fender Champ) + the 5 HD bass models New HD Models: 1. Peavey 5150 (block logo), 2. Bogner Shiva, 3. Remastered JCM800 (model 2204) 4. Orange OR-80 5. Roland JC-120 6. Fender Champ (Tweed) 7. VOX AC30 Fawn Normal 8. VOX AC30 Fawn Bright 9. JC-120 cab 10. Fender Champ cab POD Farm models: 1. Insane, 2. Big Bottom, 3. Varaic'ed Plexi, 4. Purge, 5. Aggro, 6. Smash 7. Octone 8. POD Farm Acoustic Bass Pack: (HD) 1. Ampeg SVT Normal, 2. Ampeg SVT Bright, 3. Gallien-Kruger 800RB, 4. SVT 8x10 cab, 5. SVT 410 HLF cab

Yeah, seems like thought it's inspired by the Pacifica look, it's not designed in the traditional sense as a Pacifica guitar. Still has me intrigued! I wonder if they will come up with a bunch of cool variations on the style / color; and presumably the build- maybe an LP style Variax Standard down the road? Though, for that, it will be hard to beat the JTV59, it's already pretty awesome.

Yeah, I will be the guinea pig here; I know others have reported mixed results with using JJ's, etc. I can confirm, that the stock 12AX7 in both of my DT25's was CHINESE, *not* EH. They say 12AX7B, and printed on them it just says "China" However, the EL84's in both amps are Electro Harmonix, and they say made in Russia. So... I may have to retube these sooner than anticipated if the JJ's cause me trouble, or blow out. Wishing I had done more research before I took them to the shop, but oh, well it's done now!

Well, I will be worried now every time I use my DT25! Oh well, I am the guinea pig experiment; I guess I should have read more before I took my amps to get retubed. I can confirm that both of my DT25's had Electro-Harmonix EL84's, and 'Chinese' 12AX7B. (they just say China on them, no brand indicated) I will save the EH tubes for just in case, but if the JJ's give me any problems, I will probably redo the whole process...

Interesting.. So it seems they may have moved over to using EH tubes in the DT25's as well. I am curious to check what was in my DT25's, one amp was around a year old, bought it from Zzounds; the other was purchased more recently, from Sweetwater. I asked the amp repair guys to save both sets of tubes, will be interested to see if they were the same, and which brand(s) I had.

True; though I remain cautiously optimistic! It seems the DT50 is far more susceptible to non-EH tube related issues. I am guessing since the DT25 ships with non-specific / non-matched tubes, it's not as big an issue. I did ask the tech to save me the tubes, will give them a closer look as to what brand they are when I grab the amps tonight.

+1 to some clarification for the guidelines on tube options for us DT25'ers~! As in, cool to use JJ's?

This is great news about the 25 vs 50 tubes, the EH being specific to the DT50! I was getting slightly worried.. I will be getting back my pair of DT25's from the shop today; went with all JJ's; matched pairs in both, and balanced 12AX7's in both. I will keep a close listen for any difference in tone, noise floor, and report back if they give me any problems down the road. Dropping off both guitars when I pick up the amps, so won't really be digging in with these until next week.

I suppose, will be related to how they pair the DT typology to the POD Farm acoustic 'model'. I am hopeful for this addition as well!

I realized, they should expand the channel options on the various amps. I hadn't taken the time to think about the three SLO amp models as essentially three channels of ONE amp. As is the case with the Shiva; which channel did they model? For that matter, which power tube option did they model - the EL34, the 6L6 or the KT88's? From the Bogner description: http://www.bogneramplification.com/shiva "Featuring two highly evolved channels, capable of clean tones that shimmer like icicles in the deep of winter moonlight and tube saturation that is so rich and powerful it should be illegal in the free world. Foot-switchable boost function for both channels, variable for channel 2." "Standard Shiva - EL34 models are 80 watts and have a nice throaty growl with aggressive English-style midrange to punch thru the mix. 6L6 models are 60 watts and have a touch more lowend/highend extension that's more American-style." "20th Anniversary Shiva - comes with a pair of KT88’s and the amp is rated at 90 watts. The clean channel has an entire new boost circuit. Unlike the tone stack bypass boost on the other Shiva model this boost has a separate gain stage which brings this channel into Plexi territory when boost is engaged. The tone controls stay in the circuit and affect the sound. The gain channel features higher gain and a slightly more refined type of gain. Two push button switches have been added to further shape the tone. The Shift button will as it is labeled shift the EQ., pushed in you will have a more Fender or type tone, less mids softer feel. One could say it will please the Dumble favoring players. The Mode button if pushed in will give a more aggressive in your face feel."

Sweeet! I am guessing those are primarily intended to be used in studio/direct mode; though I suppose since they are HD models, they will also include the PRE versions.. Overall, those will be nice for doing some recording. Mostly just excited for the HD guitar amp models.. The port over from the old models is cool, but since they won't have PRE versions, not sure how well they will integrate with the DT amps. It's funny, everyone worked up over the model packs being split between 'styles': I would like a version of the model packs with ONLY the new HD models. I don't care as much about the POD farm models, with the exception of the Plexi Variac'd - I wish that was a proper HD model with a PRE... The $50 metal pack buys you 3 new HD amps, whereas the $50 vintage pack buys you 5 new HD amps + 2 new HD cab models. I am still hopeful the POD Farm acoustic will help translate the JTV acoustic models going through the DT link to something better / more usable. We'll see! So it goes, looks like the $99 pack is the route I will most likely head down sometime after St Patricks' day.. :)

That double stack is sooooooo awesome looking. Seriously. Love it!!! How has patch building been going for that?

Thanks Nico! (p.s., welcome back! :) Looks like a bunch of new HD models; I wonder how the bass amp models will correspond to DT power amp settings? Would be sweet to use the DT as a tube bass poweramp into a killer bass cabinet. So, it's essentially 8 new HD guitar amp models + 1 new cabinet (JC120) + the 5 HD bass models New HD Models: 1. Peavey 5150 (block logo), 2. Bogner Shiva, 3. Remastered JCM800 (model 2204) 4. Orange OR-80 5. Roland JC-120 6. Fender Champ (Tweed) 7. VOX AC30 Fawn Normal 8. VOX AC30 Fawn Bright 9. JC-120 cab, POD Farm models: 1. Insane, 2. Big Bottom, 3. Varaic'ed Plexi, 4. Purge, 5. Aggro, 6. Smash 7. Octone 8. POD Farm Acoustic Bass Pack: (HD) 1. Ampeg SVT Normal, 2. Ampeg SVT Bright, 3. Gallien-Kruger 800RB, 4. SVT 8x10 cab, 5. SVT 410 HLF cab

Is it sorted out which are the 'new' HD models, vs the 'ported' older models? My apologies if I missed where this was detailed!