roscoe5

I haven't tried dual paths yet. Intuitively took a simplified approach for bass. I do have an LA comp block and actually kick in a valve driver occasionally. The amp models sound great for my driven tones and faux lead guitar parts. It's just the darn plain clean sound I use most of the time for fingerstyle I'm having trouble getting with Helix. In the spirit of the diligence I invested in my guitar IRs to get exactly the sound I wanted, I'm gonna try IR'ING my Mesa 1x12 and 2x12 bass cabs with a D112 and my walkabout, m9, and 400+ this afternoon. I'll post em up on dropbox if I get anything useful.

Well, Infinally got around to setting up the two Mesa Mark V 1x12 combo shells with my Mesa Simul 290 and loved the stereo! But the L6 SV HD100 sounds SO much better with Helix than the Mesa power amps. I think I'll keep an eye out for two Line 6 SV 1x12 combos. I'm sure by the time I get them, Line 6 will put out the next big amp thing ;)

Running my Helix mono currently with tube amp return in and a V30 cab and love it. When I was trying to integrate my Mesa amps 4CM I used an RJM amp gizmo midi amp switcher. Helix's 2 switch amp control wasn't enough. Now it's Helix amp models only into the power section of the amp.

I have an old Pedal Pad XL lite I thought about using so I can add some external pedals to Helix. Did you drill holes through the metal pads to mount Helix? Can you post a pic?

I've been watching the Synergy stuff too. I haven't gone full FRFR yet. I really like Helix into tube power amp and V30 cab. I think I have a good neutral tube power amp in an old Line 6 Spider Valve HD100 right now, but that SYN50/50 stereo tube power amp could be really nice. I had a Randall RM100 with some modded modules that I loved. Ended up selling it a while back.

So far so good with Helix here. 2+ gigs a week for the last 3 months with no hiccups. I definitely don't miss a loaded pedalboard with a bunch of patch cables. I will gladly trade a Helix reboot for trying to track down a bad patch cable on my 10+ pedalboard in the middle of a gig or song.

No experience with AX8, but Helix could replace it all. But you can keep some pieces of you'll stuff in play with Helix if you wanted. A lot of users here have an H9 on their boards with Helix though. And man, the Egnater modular stuff sounds great. The EG5 module is stellar. You could keep that in a loop in Helix and control it easily with Helix as well. Patches with loop blocks for outboard gear are easy to build in Helix. I don't know about AX8.

Yeah, I was just trying to run through monitors the past few weeks, both ours and a couple of times through house and outdooor sound systems. I do hear back was from the PA too. But it was never an issue for me before DI from my bass head, or even just plugging the bass straight into the mixer, no pedals or boxes. On the plus side, I really like using both bass and guitar amp models for overdriven bass sounds where I would use pedals before. They can be very smooth, less harsh. I just cant quite get there with for a basic clean punchy sound live. Even with sag all the way down, tweaking 10 band eq, etc. Maybe I'm missing something. The bass amps sound pretty good at home but things get hollow, kind of dead sounding live. To be honest, I've put WAY more effort and time into my guitar amp patches, IRs, etc. But 75% of my gigs are on bass with this trio. I sort of took a clean bass sound for granted.

I've been having a hard time lately with Helix bass amps and cabs punching through the mix going direct to PA and monitors with no bass amp. I keep trying Helix bass amps + cabs and Helix amps only in a DI to PA type approach. I seem to be getting lost in the mix. Every time I try, I just get frustrated and turn off the Helix bass amps and kick up the Helix master and run dry. I played a couple of bass gigs this weekend. Last night I started with my Cali bass patches again and was really getting bummed out. I turned off the Helix amps + cab and made it through the rest of the night dry from Helix to the board, kicking in the effects on the patch as needed. Kudos to Line 6 for having a very clean signal path. Today I set up a couple of effects-only Helix patches with my Mesa Walkabout amp and cab. Tonight I went back to Helix as an effects unit only with my Mesa Walkabout amp and Scout cab on a patio gig. The Mesa was DI to the PA with the Scout cab providing some stage sound. I was much happier with the sound a results and even got some compliments from the sound man. FYI, this is a power trio with acoustic guitar / singer, bass + backup vox (me), and drums. So it's not like the bass is drowned out by a 5+ piece band. This is not necessarily a dig at Helix or even a gripe. I couldn't get a useful live bass sound with Pod HD500x either. And I am actually really okay with bringing my Mesa amp and 1x12 to gigs. No biggie. Helix has replaced all of my pedals. Actually, I need to post a patch I made today for Kings Of Leon Closer. I was able to use the Helix looper and loop the whammy bass part (yes it's bass, watch the YouTube vid) and plain bass line, then I did the lead guitar parts on bass throughout the song. Luckily the drummer and guitarist synced up to it (we did not get to rehearse prior to this show). I would have never tried this before Helix. I may try to IR my Mesa Walkabout from instrument input to effects send and see if that gives me the punchy sound I am used too. Now that I'm thinking about it, I haven't tried the preamp only versions of the bass amps. Might be worth a shot.

Great info zooey. Since I've yet to go FRFR in any price range or solution, this type of discussion is very valuable to me. It would be interesting to see and hear compensation the IK ARC software processes and if the results are pleasing to you in your studio basement. I swear I saw a video (can't find the link off hand) where someone was using a computer plug in that analyzes a micd cab and applies a curve or response to bring any speaker or cab to a flat response. Complete speculation, but you might be able to capture and IR of the plug in and put it in Helix. Of course that would be yet another IR in the signal chain eating processor. I don't have ARC, but maybe it dies something similar.

Maybe line 6 will make a Helix lite, single processor, 1-2 paths instead of 4, simplified display, less IO, use the same models and patches, the size of the Amplifire or M5 for $499 (or less).

Good points. At least with my current setup, the cab gets mic'd and all is normal with the sound guys. Everyone is happy. When we use our own sound, I use IR'S I made of the SV and Recto 212. Always the same IR to Helix XLR to PA for consistency. Tube amp + FRFR cab with cab models could really create inconsistency with the PA and Helix rig.

You're good with Helix and the Altos though, right?

I plugged my Helix / SV HD100 into my Mesa 1x12 and 2x12 bass cabs as sort of a tube FRFR experiment. This sounded much better than using the SS power amps (effects returns) of my Mesa M9 or Walkabout. It was much fuller and livelier with 3sigma and my own IR's, as well as Helix cabs, than my bass SS amps were into the bass cabs. The feel was much better IMO too. Also sounds 100x better than Helix into my JBL Eon 515xt's. I still love my SV HD100 into Mesa Recto 2x12. It really meets all of my electric guitar needs. But it is like plugging different heads into the same Recto 2x12 sound all the time with no acoustic sim capability. I do not like to use IR's or cab models with this setup. I really dont think I would like the current market SS FRFR rigs from what I am hearing and reading. I really feel like the SV HD100 is about as close to tube FRFR as one could get. I'm considering pairing it with something like Mission FR212. http://usa.matrixamplification.com/fr212-passive.html Has anyone else tried to use a clean tube amp (Line 6 or other) in an FRFR setup?

You guys seeing anything interesting from Summer NAMM 2016 yet? Haven't seen anything posted from line 6 yet. The EH Mel 9 looks awesome.

Cool. Do you still have the same crackling noise with Helix disconnected from the PA and just headphones plugged into Helix?

You refer to "you" and "your" acoustic IR's. Are you using the acoustic IR's on my Dropbox that I made? If so, the "SC" ones are intended for single coil pickups and the "HB" ones for humbucker pickups. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/v0rxzmv514uzdez/AADWNQmQi55ZVt9ShDCLGeULa?dl=0 I just tested the ones posted again and I hear no digital clipping or artifacts. They are very crisp though, so you might try turning down the High Cut on these. But going below 10,000 Hz will deaden the sound. I don't need to cut them at all in my rig. I could see how using these, or other, acoustic IR's could enhance noise that was already in the system. Hopefully, your issue is just building power related. Maybe a bad cable? Note if you are trying to use these with active pickups, the "active" ones I made were by a user request and a shot in the dark as I dont have an active pickup guitar. Active pickups on the others could clip them. Oh, and these were made from the Amplitube Acoustic Simulator effect (for solid body electric guitars) if you want to do any research on it.

I'd personally settle for some models of classic and new rack tube power amps. Those have definite inputs, outputs, control knobs, and voicing switches. I put an idea up on Ideascale a while back for rack preamp and power amp models.

I'm glad you posted this too. Nothing is bulletproof, including amps and pedals. It's good to have a backup plan. Along the lines of amsdenj above, I could carry iPad, iRig Pro Duo, Boss FC-50 MIDI board, for Amplitube apps. Although, I have covered an entire gig with a Mesa v-Twin pedal, TC Nova System, and wah pedal when an amp died before. Hate to haul that around, but I suppose I could break out the old MPS Pedal Pad XL Lite and fit it all on there. Hmm...how much is Atomic Ampifire again...$599 ;) Would fit in the Helix backpack.

Oh good! I had that sick feeling in my gut and some buyers remorse when I first played the Helix high gain amps and cabs. Took lots of research and experimenting to get there for me. Seems easy now in hindsight. I really like the US Double Nrm and Matchstick Ch1 for cleans. I just do the combination Helix amp / cab blocks on those with a condenser 414 mic. Nothing fancy. Clean sounds are easier to get. The cabs and mics REALLY influence the high gain sounds, for better or worse.

No worries, thanks for replying back. I came to about the same conclusion, except using voicing I for high gain Mesa-Bogner-Engl sounds. I used the 1/4" Helix out into DT power amp in and not L6 Link. Yep, I've had two outdoor gigs with pro sound guys since getting the Helix, and they wanted to mic the cab. i don't blame them actually. They know their tools and are comfortable. That would like asking me to play a different guitar. With our band's own JBL Eon system, I run Helix XLR out to the mixer.

I believe this is what ricksteruk on this forum does here with a pair of tube 1x12 combos and he loves it. He knows his stuff too. Hopefully he will chime in. I know exactly what you mean about the old stereo 2x12's. I have a mono Recto 2x12 I use currently and love. I just picked up a second Mesa Mark V 1x12 combo shell and plan on testing it with my other MV 1x12 combo shell with my Mesa stereo Simul 2:90 power amp this weekend hopefully. The Mesa 290 colored my Helix sound before, but I've gotten more experience with Helix since I last tried. Also, I generally don't like open back combos, so if I do like the stereo thing, I will probably start experimenting with different rear panels from closed to different openness. I can always go wet / dry / wet with the two MV 1x12 combo cabs and the Recto 2x12...with a roadie ;) It will be fun either way. I'll report back.

There's a bit more fullness and depth of the full Helix amp models into the SV power amp. There's also quite a bit of difference in character of the high gain amps/SV preamps/DT50 between the two. I swear it's just about like swapping out the 6L6's at 90W to EL34's at 40W in my Mesa Mark V or 6L6's vs EL34's in my Triple Rec. Thank goodness the DT50 doesn't have the thinness of my EL34 Mesa Stiletto. I actually like running my Stiletto preamp into my Triple Rec power amp. This is all based on a Mesa Recto 212 too as the cab. FWIW, I'm really a Fender clean and Mesa mid-to-high gain guy. As objective as I'm trying to be, long term personal preference and familiarity of sound and feel of my old gear could be coming into play. If I were more into Marshall and Vox and boutique brit amp sounds, the DT50 would likely appeal to me more. Running Helix full amp models 1/4" out into DT50 1/4" Power Amp in set to Voicing I / Pentode / Class A-B is pretty similar to the SV, but the SV is still fuller and clearer to me with the Recto 212 cab. I think I could spend some more time and make them sound closer. And then there's the issue of getting DT50 XLR out back into Helix to route to a split signal path with cab/IR block to the Helix XLR out/PA. But to be honest, I don't think it's really worth the time, complexity, and $600 to me. With all that said... If I had the DT50 first, I certainly would not replace it with the SV. If I kept the DT50, I would probably end up running full Helix amp models with it into the power amp in. More time and experience with Helix / DT could change that. Conversely, to those that have an SV, I wouldn't run out to replace it with a DT for Helix use without trying it with Helix amp models first. My plan was to buy the DT50 and sell the SV, but I think I'll end up returning the DT50 to GC, save the $ and hold out for L6's next big amp thing. I'm REALLY hoping for something that fits in the front compartment of that backpack. I'm not into open back combos or 412's (too big), which is why I've hung onto that Mesa 212. Fryette Power Station is a neutral 50W 6L6 amp, fits in Helix backpack could be a smaller replacement for my SV. We'll see what L6 comes up with first though. I'm not in a hurry. I does seem that the SV series was geared more to the high gain market and DT is "your boutique amp factory". Maybe I'll just get crazy, have it all, and use both with my Radial Tonebone VT amp head switcher ;) Or maybe Line 6 will take a Mesa Road King aproach in the next DT series and put 4 6L6's and 2 EL34's in the same head, all with voicings, Class A / AB and Pentode / Triode selection. Might as well throw in a stereo digital solid state power amp while you're at it too ;)

Guys, I hate to say it, but I'm liking Helix full amp models 1/4" out into the power amp in of the Spider Valve MKii HD100 better than Helix preamp models into the DT50 into my Mesa Recto 212 V30 cab. Maybe its a 100w 6L6 vs 50w EL34 preference, more clean headroom of the SV HD100, or Helix preamp vs amp models. Maybe my ears are just tuned to the SV and Helix since that's what I've been using. I'll mess with it some more this weekend. Don't get me wrong, Helix and DT50 sound great together. I think its just personal preference. I'm also playing a lot of high gain amp models like Cali Mesa, Engl, Bogner.

I made the MesRec IRs in response to the initial boxyness I first experienced the Helix cabs. Whether using IRs or the Helix cabs, try adjusting the high cut to around 7-8000Hz and the low cut to 70-80hz. Also try two cabs set up in parallel, even if its the same cabs with two different mics. I'm not talking about a single Dual Cab block as that separates the cabs into one left and one right. Try two parallel Helix 412 Uber V30's, one with a 414 condenser mic and one with a D112 mic. The 412 Uber T75 is good for high gain too. I don't really care for the Helix Cali 412 cab even though I like physical Mesa 412 cabs.