LDBecker

Just to close a loop on this - OP here - Line6tony hadn't been able to recover this topic (lost with several others last weekend), so I reported back on my first use of the system - including the L3s that people here pretty much demanded that I get for my system. It was an unqualified success. Here is the thread I reported back in: http://line6.com/support/topic/7142-to-sub-or-not-to-sub-redux-reporting-in-l3s-use/ Thanks Line6tony for your work in restoring the posts, and to all for your encouragement! Larry

Thanks, All - I thinks it's important to close the loop on questions or issues brought up in such forums - I know I always enjoy hearing back from people on how things went... So - again, I'm totally enthused and pleased with how things went, and had zero issues. In fact, the M20d alerted me to a problem. I had hooked up a single monitor speaker and wasn't getting anything out of it. Odd - I was sure I was doing it right (not my first rodeo, so to speak). All the programming was right, the levels were set right - had a bad mic cable (it's usually the cables, isn't it?) going to the Mackie Thump and so nothing for the monitor was showing on the screen. Swapped the cable, and voila! There was the icon for the monitor and those really cool lines connecting the various instruments to the monitor to show adjustments... I am truly impressed with this gear. Someone who knew what they were doing and who was a musician/sound person obviously had fun designing this! I DO know a bit about sound (enough to be dangerous!), but at 5 am with almost no sleep setting things up for cranky musicians and singers, an intuitive mixer is literally a God-send! Thanks again to all who were a part of this! Larry

I had planned to report in on my initial use of the system, including the 3Ls that this group virtually DEMANDED that I get ( :)) in a previous but now hidden thread ("To Sub or not to sub, that is the question"), but I don't think Line6tony (with whom I've been in contact) has had any luck finding it - so.. thought I'd start a new thread. In short - it was flawless! The M20d worked as it should have, and it really is quite intuitive. The L3s was not an issue at all - it made the sound really full. I had FBS enabled and it did what it needed to do in the admittedly odd space - (an open-air courtyard, concrete/tile floor, brick wall on one side, brick/stucco/glass on the other, open in back, tile behind us). Played with a keyboard, drums, bass guitar, me on acoustic guitar, 5 singers... even hooked up a Mackie 15" Thump for a monitor... absolutely everything did what it was supposed to do. I was even able to record the whole Easter Sunrise service and it worked without a hitch (Sandisk Extreme 32g class 10 SD card). Happy camper! And thanks to all who encouraged me! Larry

Line6Tony, As someone pretty invested in Line 6 gear (StageScape M20d, 2 L3t's, 1 L3s, JTV 69, POD 500X - Yikes! That's a lot of stuff!), I am glad you are working on this. Thanks for letting us know. Please understand that, with the purchase by Yamaha, people wonder about the long-term support of the products. Anything you can do to ease minds and hearts is appreciated! We also hope that updates continue on the product line - the M20d can use some refinements - How about adding the Variax tones into the M20d that are present in the speakers? Why, when we go for the full package, do we lose access to that amazing feature? For the JTV guitars - maybe a Nylon String setting? You know you want to - and you've had it before. For the POD500x - How about some StageSource/JTV-specific general tones to start us off with - maybe a great, clean acoustic tone, a clean strat, and so on. 99% of the stuff preloaded in the POD500x is interesting, but absolutely unusable to me. And the CustomTone stuff is a little hard to get a handle on - just getting an HD500 tone into an HD500x was interesting to figure out (not hard, but where does it say how? They're different formats!). Sorting out the good tones from the bad? And they would sound TOTALLY different on an L3t than they would on a DT25 or another non-FRFR amp. But if there were a few that we could load up to start us off? Some of us have real jobs and aren't full-time musicians. I'm really pretty new to the electric guitar (played acoustics for 45 years), and fairly new to multi-effects boxes (though I have a Yamaha Acoustic Stomp I use a lot). Sorry for the rant - I mean it as supportive and encouraging, but also to let you all know there are real people out here using and enjoying your equipment! Thanks also for taking care of the issues and problems that inevitably come up with anything like this... Larry

The L3s arrived today - right on time from Sweetwater - FedEx guy threw out his back getting it off the truck. Well, not really, but he didn't look happy! Yay free shipping!!!!! This thing is HUGE - but the handles AND WHEELS on it make it so much more manageable than my old Mackie 1801. I also got the case for it - and I have to say again, Someone at Line 6 is actually thinking about how to design things. The handles, wheels, and now the case with the cutouts for the handles AND even a little side holder for the long pole and/or power cable and short cable I suppose. I got the cases for the L3t's as well - and those have the wheels built into the cases rather than the speaker. The wheels help a LOT! I also got the "dust cover" for the M20d, or as ColonelForbin said, "Beer repeller." Probably won't see much beer in my line of work - maybe "Communion wine repeller"? So - M20d, two L3t's, L3s, small pole, cables - I'm set! I'll give it a preliminary run through tonight, then get ready for Easter Sunday. Thanks all for your input in this thread! Even the off-topic stuff. It's funny how a simple question gets something going - but it's REALLY HELPFUL to see what people are doing and how/why. Larry

SiWatts69, Those poles are pretty cool! Watched the video from the company and the way the lock into place seems pretty secure. Using one of the sockets for your light pole is genius! I'm a little apprehensive about my first run with the sub - It will be in a REALLY live space- brick on 1 side and behind us, glass and stucco on the other side, concrete and tile on the floor, open air above. Doing a major rehearsal in the space on Saturday to get a feel for it. I expect to be fiddling with the sound a bit. Larry

Good video - I hadn't seen that one before. Sean is talking about something I think is really interesting- using a "FRFR" - Full Range Flat Response speaker like the L3t or L2t INSTEAD of a guitar amp and letting the HD500x do the amp simulations. If you use an HD500x on top of an amp, you get a doubling of amp tones- if you use the HD500x with a FRFR amp, you get a lot of options in sound- including a sweet acoustic tone. I started with an L3t and JTV69 trying to get that acoustic tone- Sean makes it look simpler than it is. He also suggests going to 11's for strings (JTVS seem to come with 10's) and he published a POD HD500 tone for the acoustic sound - I had ok results after changing to 11s and downloading the tone... Adding the 2nd L3t (and next week the L3s!) and the M20d and running the HD 500x through the M20d is what I'm working with now... Getting there... Downloading different tones and developing/playing my own tones is fun! But time consuming and sometimes frustrating. Larry

Not sure why no response to your question - maybe as it's Saturday, people are out running their systems! I'm afraid I don't have much to help with - I went with the Apple USB to Ethernet adaptor to an Apple Airport Express. It wasn't all that expensive as such things go - here in the US the adaptor is $29 and the Airport Express was $99. One could also do a generic USB to Ethernet adaptor and then use a Belkin 600 router - that would be a little cheaper. What sold me on the Apple solution was not only the pretty solid connection one gets, but ALSO you can take a 3.5mm stereo cable and go out of the Airport Express and into the M20d and using Airplay you can play music through the Line 6 system. So, not only can you control the mixer from the iPad, but you can play music as well, using the same wireless setup... THAT is way cool. Coming from the Presonus digital mixer world, just getting the iPad to connect to the mixer was truly a pain -you needed a laptop with a firewire port - and it had to have exactly the right chipset to work consistently - My Core i7 Sony Vaio, the only laptop I could find with firewire 3 years ago had the wrong chipset - constant issues!!! Hooking the M20d up took me quite literally 5 minutes. I was considering getting a WiFi dongle initially and read about some issues with them, and as you say, the list is a little old. Perhaps try one of the same brand as recommended and return it if it doesn't work. Hope you get it to work - but I'd honestly recommend the Apple solution. Let us know how it works out for you - Larry

Ok - what's with all the Canucks here? Me (in California), Digital-sound, litesnsirens, scotterp in AZ - maybe something in our DNA attracts us to good equipment? And then there's the Aussies - With Ron being such an advocate, I bet there are quite a few from Down Under on the board as well. scotterp - trying to move around my former Mackie sub on my own (a common occurrence - after the gig - "Where did everybody go?") was a back injury waiting to happen - just too bulky and not really much to hold onto. The wheels, size and handholds will really help a lot! With the L3s - just pop the cover on, wheel it off to wherever... I have a really nice set of pneumatic speaker stands from Ultimate (TS-100's) that helps heft up the L3t's to the appropriate height, so I'm ok on the other speaker - should be alright with the short pole on the L3s. Larry

Digital-sound and litesnsirens - ok- now I don't feel bad about just getting the short pole. I was also feeling like a bit of a wuss for not wanting to lift these things so high... Guess I won't have to worry about that. I think I would normally use it upright as well. Just noticing that the sub is over 80lbs! My former Mackie was about 75 and was awful to move. I love how Line 6 put wheels and handles on theirs. That kind of attention to detail means a lot... Larry

Ok, Ok!!!! You've convinced me! Sheesh!!!! Like I wasn't expecting this kind of response from this board!!! On order from Sweetwater- should be here Wednesday... along with the cover and a short pole. Was intending to order the long one as well but it was out of stock. Which pole do you folks use? I would think it would be a little difficult to single-handedly hoist an L3t on top of an L3s that's in the vertical position on a long pole, no? I guess a follow-on question - do you use the L3s mostly in horizontal or vertical mode? Also - I kept my old sub pole, which is adjustable for different heights - I'm guessing that won't work? Tinorios - none of the stores that offer a free trial (and/or have anything in stock) are anywhere near me, and I kind of wanted it next week... Ron - funds available - done... The 1801 WAS a good price, but I had to constantly turn it down to keep things from getting too muddy. It was "Ok," but not great. jaminjimlp - running an electronic keyboard, line out from a bass guitar amp along with 4 singers and an acoustic guitar for now, JTV69 as soon as I'm comfortable playing it in public (it's a WHOLE different thing than my 45 years of acoustic playing have me conditioned to do) Digital-Sound - fellow Canadian and former Presonus user - thanks for the encouragement and insight into de-boomy-ing the thing! litesnsirens - (police? fire? ambulance?) yes - headroom! Thanks all so much - Larry

Ok - to paraphrase several on this forum, I think I'm in deep. I traded in my Presonus 16.4.2, Mackie 450v2's and Mackie 1801 sub on the M20d and 2 3Lt's - and I'm wondering about the sub. I often found the Mackie 1801 to be a bit, well, boomy - not tight, not well-integrated with the other speakers. It was OK, but not great, and I often didn't use it. It wasn't that expensive, so I didn't feel to badly about that. Also, in some of our outdoor church services - specifically the upcoming Easter Sunrise service, I'm not sure how helpful it was. We do it in a courtyard that's maybe 50' wide, 120' long, with brick walls on each side and back, concrete floor, and open sky on top. The one year I tried the Mackie sub it seemed to make things kind of muddy. I'm gathering the L3s will integrate well with the whole ecosystem. The kind of music we play on it is more contemporary Christian, with me on acoustic guitar, a keyboard, bass guitar, 3 vocalists and now a drum set. We get a little rowdy sometimes, and as I introduce my JT69 later this year, maybe a bit more so. I also use the system for off-site weddings and will use it for classical music, keyboards, and so on, as well as occasionally for dance music/DJ sorts of things. Trying to decide... Larry

Yes, I'm sure it is. Larry

Got the 2nd L3t updated to the current firmware, had to get another cable, but am now happily streaming from my iPad 4 via AirPlay to an Apple Airport Express and Apple USB to Ethernet adaptor with a 3.5mm cable connecting that to the M20d. Thanks to the advice of several who posted in this forum, it took MAYBE 5 minutes to get hooked up, configured on the iPad and running. I was almost startled... Is it supposed to be that easy? And after coming from my Presonus 16.4.2 and having NO END OF GRIEF getting a laptop working with the Presonus (sorry Presonus!), this just seems like SOMEONE WAS PAYING ATTENTION WHEN THEY MADE THIS STUFF!!!!! :) Larry

Update to 1.20 went without a hitch, screen works fine... going to spend some time watching videos and reading the manual - updating the speaker firmware tomorrow. Larry

Well... I'm now an official M20d owner! I had to drive an hour to pick it up from a not-so-local Guitar Center, but it was worth it - significant discount/clearance, open box but brand new, never powered on. Still had the plastic on the screen and the cord was never even plugged in. Firmware 1.0, though - so I've got some upgrading to do. Thanks to all, especially Digital-Sound, for your advice. This is going to be fun! Except now I have to read all the back posts so I don't ask a lot of dumb questions (like what kind of case are people using). Thanks again! Larry

Ah, well - I have a M20d on the way for tomorrow - if it's in good shape, I'll take it. As I said, I've been moving in that direction since I bought my first L3t and JTV 69. It is inevitable... no escape for me... Another thing that's inevitable is an upgrade to the M20d, and it's getting a little late in its lifecycle. I won't feel too bad about it if it gets replaced within this year as I won't have THAT much cash in it. GC is being pretty good to me. I have to say that EVERYTHING I've read about the M20d and Line 6 people/products makes me happy to be moving forward with this. It will be a quantum leap ahead of where I was with my Presonus 16.4.2 and Mackie 450v2 speakers. This board and the moderators are really a major selling point as well. People may not say it enough, but thank you so much for the time you mods and Line 6 staff put into this! Larry

Thanks for the offer! I'm in Los Angeles area, though. I went to my local Guitar Center and they found an "open box" M20D for a significant discount, so I'm having them bring that in from another nearby store tomorrow. If it's in as good a shape as they say (new, just opened box), I'll likely just take it - trading in my Presonus 16.4.2... Just have to throw in a couple hundred $$$. Been thinking about doing this anyway... Larry

I'm interested in this as well - I bought 2 L3T speakers - one from Sweetwater that had current correct firmware, and just a week ago bought one from my local Guitar Center that had the previous firmware - and I don't have an M20d (yet).I DO, however, have an HD 500x and a Variax guitar and the interface. When I asked about this before, I was told that it could only be done with the M20d. Riley - you said the difference was "incredible" going to the new firmware - in what way? I've got a gig coming up soon and will need to do something with this. Thanks so much, Larry

Thanks for that, Dave - wouldn't have believed video from an iPhone... pretty cool! We're looking at doing a couple of things with video.. first, being able to use the video switcher to record an entire service from multiple sources (at least 2 cameras, a pc for song words, and maybe video clips), and routing audio from the main board (in our case a Presonus 24.4.2) to be the audio for the video. The cameras would be switchable from the desk and able to be remotely panned, zoomed and focused, mostly by presets (hit 1 and it captures the preacher, 2 and it gets the choir, and so on), and all the audio and video would be merged into a file that could be then edited and streamed to YouTube or wherever. These PTZ cameras aren't cheap - at least $2k per camera. I had hoped that something like a GoPro would work, but they aren't really set up to be remotely controlled or send their output somewhere else - you basically take the card and edit the file. I'm trying to get out of that business as much as possible. I've had to video a few services using multiple cameras (I have a Canon XA-10 and Canon XF300, and sometimes use my Panasonic GH-3), and it's a bit of a pain to line up the footage manually in Premiere Pro (what I use). There are add-ins that can sync the files based on the audio, but I don't have one... yet... Thanks for the behind the scenes! Great Job! Larry

Cute - "Shinyheadmusic.com" - I wonder where THAT came from?!? VERY nice video - I'm the Sr. Pastor, lead guitarist, singer and sound tech at my church... LOTS of fun every Sunday - so I could relate to what you're trying to do there. It sounded great! As a guitarist (Martin HD-35, Taylor NS-25, JTV-69), I appreciate the sound quality! What are you using for video shooting? It looks like you're bouncing between a couple of cameras? I'm right in the middle of a video install at my church - HD projector, larger screen, touch screen video mixer with the ability to live video podcast (Roland VR50-HD, and cameras. We are looking at adding a couple of Sony HD PZT cameras - a little pricey, but then I won't need to have them manned during the service. Thanks! Larry

For those of us thinking about the M20d, this is kind of alarming... I had thought maybe some of these problems were from early units, but you just got yours - yikes. I have 2 L3t speakers and was thinking of trading my Presonus 16.4.2 in on one... maybe I'll wait a bit. I've got two important events I have to run sound on in the next month or so - waiting until after those I think. Keep us posted! Larry

Thanks so much to all who contributed to this question! Helpful board!! Digital-Sound - I was hoping you would chime in as I knew you were a Presonus user as well... Still trying to get my head around it a little. With the Presonus board, the board itself is the recording surface and what you do there affects the files - which you are recording in and through the DAW. With the M20d, I guess you just load the files into the DAW. Thanks again,all, for your input! Larry

Just got my 2nd L3T to go with my JTV 69 and HD 500x... Traded in 2 Mackie 450v2s and an 1801 sub. I currently am using a Presonus 16.4.2 and got the Studio One Professional software to go with it... Wondering if the files from the M20D can be edited by the Presonus software. I actually was able to do some nice recordings with it, and have some $$ invested in it, so as I think of going to the M20D I'm wondering if I also need different software. Thanks! Larry

Yes, thanks- that worked perfectly... Larry