HonestOpinion

Thanks very much for testing! I think that is the same behavior I saw. So it is not just my Helix. I will submit a ticket to CS.

I reinstalled firmware version 1.03 and then reset the globals with the hold 9 & 10 and restart procedure. I am still seeing the same exact problem from a completely vanilla installation, all global parameters set to default. The "bug" is totally reproduceable and is immediately fixed when the custom label on the EXP toe switch scribble strip is removed. Can anyone else reproduce this bug? Here is my exact method for recreating the problem. I could really use some help from some other users to see if they can recreate this. DI has not been able to reproduce this bug and I am wondering if my hardware is faulty. Could some other folks please test this. Thanks!!! Select a preset with a wah and volume pedal block. I chose 03A "Soup Pro" (I can select any preset with volume pedal and wah block and reproduce this bug) Press the "Home" button and use the joystick to select the volume pedal block. Make sure the expression toe switch is set to "Exp 2". When you move the expression pedal you should see the "Position" parameter move and your volume should change. Use the joystick to select the wah pedal block. Make sure the expression toe switch is set to "Exp 1". When you move the expression pedal you should see the "Position" parameter move and you should hear the wah effect. Press the "Global Settings" button and choose the "Command Center" Navigate to the EXP Toe Switch and press "Customize" Delete the first letter from the name displayed (if you are testing this on the 03A "Soup Pro" preset the name will be "Teardrop 310". Delete the "T" so it reads "eardrop 310"). You can rename it anything you want but I wanted to keep things as simple and repeatable as possible. Hit "OK" to save the custom name. Now hit the "Home" button again to exit the Command Center and return to the home screen. Repeat steps 2 & 3. (You should find that either the volume or the wah are no longer controlled by the expression pedal. That is the bug.) You can reverse the operation by going back into the Command Center and deleting your custom name. Normal operation is then restored to the expression pedal and it is once again able to control the wah and volume levels. I would point out that I have one of the Helix units that has the extra tab sensor on both the right and the left XLR ouputs. I know there are versions floating around with only one tab sensor, on the left XLR output. Don't know if this is pertinent unless other hardware was changed as well.

Great idea, voted!

Yep, the dim functionality works just as anticipated. Just wanted to clarify, it still toe switches back and forth between volume and wah but the expression pedal only works on either the volume or the wah after the label is customized. Even when I am switched to the wah/volume the pedal does not work. It is the loss of function on the pedal, not the switch, that is mystifying. I will backup and reflash the firmware as well as doing the globals reset. Hopefully that will remedy it. Thanks very much for running the test on your Helix!

I apologize for jumping on the bandwagon here. I am perfectly content to wait for the editor for a reasonable amount of time although ideally at least a beta would have been available for the product release date. I know L6 polled their users and got no love for a touch screen but personally I would have loved to have seen an iPad app for programming. I have a multi-effect that uses this technology and the ease of preset setup with drag and drop, clarity and size of the screen, combined with the ability to attach it to a microphone stand or set it on a music stand makes for unrivaled ease of editing while practicing or playing live. I give L6 massive kudos for an incredibly well thought out and groundbreaking UI with so much to commend it, but there is no reason not to retain what they have and also offer a tablet based drag and drop interface. Future versions of the Helix could have a touch instead of a view screen built in as well as retaining their current revolutionary functionality. Drag and drop is one of those things that may seem like a just a drag at first but takes very little time to become a preferred method of programming for many. When iPad programming and/or a touchscreen is available along with a good PC editor and a state of the art physical interface like the Helix, you have a 1,2,3 knockout for usability. It would be irresponsible of me not to acknowledge that with this best of all worlds, kid in a candy store scenario detailed, that one of the great challenges and possible expenses for companies like L6 is keeping costs contained while trying to keep multiple platforms like Windows and iOS, and their hardware in sync, as they make improvements and add features. I understand that if I were part of a development team that had produced such an innovative physical interface I would want people to at least give it a good try before resorting to PC and iPad operation. With that said, almost no matter how good the physical interface is, apps for programming whether PC or tablet based are often preferred by many users depending on their circumstances. Determined by how and where they are using the Helix and whether it is for recording or live use (Until of course I get an interface I can operate by sheer force of will alone, are you guys working on that? ;) ).

Does that mean I may have a defective unit or need to try reapplying the firmware? Because in my case labeling the EXP toe switch is absolutely impacting pedal operation. I am on the latest firmware. Is anyone else having this issue? A simple check to see if you can still control volume and wah with the expression pedal after applying a custom label to the EXP toe switch should verify whether this is an issue.

Ah, I think I may understand what you are saying now. Changing the text on the EXP toe switch scribble strip actually modifies the toe switch behavior such that it can no longer flip back and forth between two blocks, e.g. volume and wah and operate the pedal properly. Changing the label means that the EXP switch and pedal now only control one block, for example the wah. You retain the ability to switch between blocks like the volume and wah but lose the ability to have the expression pedal work for both. If this was the operation intended wouldn't it make more sense not to allow the switch to toggle between the two blocks and only have it turn on and off the one block that the pedal can still control? I have to admit that sounds more like a bug than a "feature" but if that is what you are getting at I understand now. So for now if you wish to retain the ability to switch between two blocks (e.g. wah, volume) with the EXP toe switch AND retain proper pedal operation you CANNOT custom label the EXP toe switch. I would humbly request that behavior be modified to accommodate the ability to toggle between blocks as it does so well when the label is not customized. A request you have no doubt received many times already. Thanks for taking the time to respond and explain, much appreciated.

Thanks for the response DI. I get that the scribble strip is for the toe switch and considered using the terminology "EXP toe switch" instead of "expression pedal" in my post but thought I might confuse the issue (clearly that was a miscalculation). The problem I am most perplexed by is not with the scribble strip (although I look forward to that being enhanced). What I am seeing is that the expression pedal itself actually ceases to function properly when you assign a customized name to the EXP toe switch. The ability to control the WAH or alternatively the volume pedal disappears, at least on my Helix. Depending on the preset, either the volume or the Wah ceases to be controlled by the expression pedal. This is the behavior that is concerning me. I am wondering if everyone else is having problems with expression pedal functionality after customizing the text on the EXP toe switch scribble strip? This malfunction occurs for me on any preset that has a voume pedal and a wah pedal block assigned to EXP 2 and EXP 1 (default assignment). It appears that customizing the EXP toe switch scribble strip actually adversely impacts the operation of the EXP toe switch and/or the expression pedal. You lose the ability to control the Wah or volume and the behavior does not appear to be consistent, sometimes the wah functionality is affected and sometimes it is the volume but after a custom name, one or the other always ceases to work properly. I did not expect a labeling procedure to impact pedal or Exp toe switch operation. Removing the custom text in the scribble strip restores normal operation.

I think I am seeing the same issue when I customize the text for the expression pedal scribble strip. I name the expression pedal "WAH". After I label the expression pedal the Wah pedal function ceases to function. The text shows "WAH" but the actual function of the Wah pedal no longer modifies the sound or changes the "Position" value when the Wah pedal is selected. If I delete the custom name "WAH", then the Wah pedal starts working again. Is this a known bug?

After thinking about this for another couple of days I think you are absolutely correct. I needed to make the connection between series/parallel loops to the more PA oriented terminology inline/sidechain to really get what you were saying. This implementation does provide more flexibility and may be exactly why Line6 chose to do things this way on not only rackmount emulations but the footpedal emulations as well. Not very intuitive or faithful to the original "Mix" controls as footpedals don't usually operate this way, but ultimately more powerful and flexible while still retaining the ability to accurately mimic the pedal they are modeling (albeit losing some resolution in the "Mix" setting). In essence Line6 has enabled the "Mix" control on the footpedal emulations to operate as you would expect around the 50% region, but also to excel in scenarios where ordinarily you would have to use a rackmount type "Mix" control for a wet only signal. Now that I understand it, I like it!

If you have a separate output block I suppose you can do this by assigning the output block to a footswitch, select the "Level" Parameter and then set the "Min Level" to -120. You could also add a "Gain" block and use the same procedure.

If Line6 confirms this, I think these posts sum up how the "Mix" control works on at least some if not all of the Mod effects.

Makes perfect sense!

Thanks again for your answer phil_m, it took a while for all of the implications of your post to sink in. So, at 25% I should have a mix with more direct/less effect, at 75% I should have more effect/less direct. When you factor in the point twpmeister is making about how a chorus and many other mod effects work, the perception of max effect at somewhere around 50% makes perfect sense. It also took me a while to wrap my head around the fact that the "Mix" control on foot pedal emulations is essentially implemented the way it would work on many rackmounts. If at "Mix"=100% I am only hearing the slightly detuned and delayed signal with absolutely no direct signal it most likely would be perceived as having little to no chorus sound. I am just not sure why Line6 chose this implementation for footpedal emulations. On footpedals the "Mix" control usually results in the most perceived level of effect at 100%. The operation of the "Mix" control on the Helix footpedal emulations is more like you would see on a rackmount effect where 100% is usually only affected signal such that the effect can be used inline or sidechained. In the case of an effect like a Chorus this results in 100% sounding relatively unaffected depending on the severity of the Chorus settings such as rate or depth of vibrato.

This is a good hypothesis and was what I initially assumed the problem was. I think there is more to it than that though. Even if this were the case this would be a very unconventional and non-standard way to implement the mix control. Most mix controls on foot pedal effects do not operate this way. Most mix controls appear to be their "wettest" with the most perceived level of the effect at 100% (even if under the covers this is the result of mixing the dry and affected signals such that the listeners perception is that they have the max effect sound). On many rackmount units I believe the wet(100%) sound is just the max affected sound with no direct signal mixed in which would tend to support your hypothesis. Just not sure how much sense this makes for users accustomed to standard foot pedal operation, and after all, these are foot pedal emulations. I mistakenly started this topic when another similar one already existed. Please see Duncann's topic below.

An optional daughterboard with two extra SHARCs would be awesome! Not only would this give the option for spillover but I suppose it could also serve to turn the Helix into a, heehee, "Double Helix" with monstrous and excessive amounts of processing power for incredibly complex presets when not being used for spillover. This topic of being able to plug in optional hardware as well as software packs has come up before and I imagine sooner or later the industry will provide units with this capability to cater to "power" users. Not that the Helix isn't already spectacular. I suppose the trade-off for the company making an "expandable" product would be "can we make enough money selling the optional hardware versus the upgrade cycle of selling the latest and greatest new version of the entire unit?".

Spillover is not a huge deal to me either way although it is a great feature and makes for a more organic switch between presets. I am curious as to what is physically required for spillover DSP. Is it just an additional SHARC processor or is there much more required physically? Obviously there would be all the additional programming. The SHARC DSP processor(s) in the Helix, the ADSP-21469, is I believe relatively inexpensive ($15 per processor in bulk is what I thought I saw on the Analog Devices SHARC page, assuming they are listing the same version of the ADSP-21469 the Helix is using). I have no idea how much the PC board it is attached to costs or what expense would be involved in designing a custom board and adding a third processor just for spillover (assuming that is all that is required which I doubt). No clue on this topic, not an electronics guy, just curious what the actual cost of additional hardware would be to add true preset spillover capability without sacrificing any of the current processing power? Very comprehensive and positive review here that shows the SHARC processors and some of the other parts/components on the inside of the Helix, apparently the Helix is built with top quality construction and parts, from the chassis to the components: http://www.tonymckenzie.com/line6-helix-effects-unit-floor-pedal-inside-and-out-review.htm

A couple of notes in addition to the instruction posted by Digital_Igloo in the link phil_m provided. You can also use Global Settings/Controller Assign to accomplish this. One thing that may or may not seem immediately obvious is that in, for instance an amp block, you can assign several parameters to the same footswitch. Scrolling through parameters allows you to assign several to one controller. Picking one parameter does not "undo" parameters already assigned to that controller/footswitch. The "Min"/"Max" settings determine what the parameters setting will be with the footswitch in the on or off position (Min=off, Max=on). Let's say you want the X/Y state of the amp to maintain a steady volume level when you increase the "Drive". You want the "Drive" to increase and the "Master" volume to decrease when you turn on the footswitch. Do the following using the command center or you can apply digital_igloo's instructions to take advantage of some shortcuts: Select the amp block Go into Global Settings and select Controller Assign Select the "Drive" setting with the "Parameter" controller Select the footswitch you want with the "Controller" controller (redundant I know) Use the "Min" controller to select the drive setting you want with the footswitch off Use the "Max" controller to select the drive setting you want with the footswitch on Go back to the "Parameter" controller and select "Master" Select the footswitch you want with the "Controller" controller (redundant I know) Use the "Min" controller to select the master volume setting you want with the footswitch off (NOTE: in this example you want the volume to decrease when the "Drive" is increased (footswitch on) so the "Min" setting will actually be higher than the "Max" setting for the "Master" parameter) Use the "Max" controller to select the master volume setting you want with the footswitch on Customize the footswitch name if you like. Save your patch, you are done! You can repeat this process(steps 7-10) for up to I believe eight parameters, you will notice that both your "Drive" and "Master" assignments are retained. Now when you click the footswitch on, the "Drive" setting on your amp should increase and the "Master" volume decrease. When you turn it off, the drive should return to the values you set under "Min" for the "Drive" parameter and the volume should should increase to the "Min" level you set under the "Master" parameter. Remember the "Min" and "Max" refer to the footswitch state, on/off. The "Min" can be set to a higher number than the "Max" and this will determine what happens when the footswitch is toggled off.

Make "LED Ring Brightness" setting variable instead of on/off. This setting is under Global Settings/Displays. Right now you only have a choice of on/off, instead of being able to vary the brightness of the rings around the footswitch when it is in the "off" position. It would be great if you could vary the brightness of the footswitch ring when it is "off". This would accommodate different light levels on stage (dark, daylight, etc.). I also find the default dim level in the off mode to be just a little too bright for my eyes and it can sometimes make it difficult to tell if the pedal is on or off at a quick glance. With a variable dim setting the ring brightness could be customized for different eyes. I love the footswitch ring feature! Please retain the ability to turn the ring all the way off in the "off" position but add the ability to vary the brightness (assuming it is physically possible with the LED's you are using). Thanks! You can vote for it here: http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Make-LED-Ring-Brightness-setting-variable-instead-of-on-off/792849-23508

I agree! I love the way the Helix has so many preset slots that they were able to provide empty User lists for me to populate with my own presets or modified presets copied in whole or in part from factory presets. I find this liberating as I don't feel like I am blowing away or modifying factory presets that I may want to refer back to. Granted you could always refer back to original presets by restoring them from the Librarian but I love having an area that is not already populated to copy and modify to, at least initially. I really like the approach Line6 took to not pre-populating every preset slot!

Aaargh, the Helix has such an embarrassment of riches when it comes to knobs and controls for volume attenuation I am finding myself confused. I may well be misunderstanding DI's post but it sounds like the Helix should be run with the large physical volume knob turned all the way up and the "Level" parameter on the merge/mixer/output block set to 0% for unity gain (all other things being equal). Is this correct? This would be a serious change to the way I operate the Helix as I assumed unity for the large physical "Volume" knob would be with the white line straight up at 50%. I am wondering what or if there is a generally best method to level a preset using the following controls: The physical large volume control at the top of the Helix, The "Level" control on the output block The "Level" control on effects The "Ch Vol" on amps. The "Master Vol" on amps. What is the ideal method or rule of thumb for combining the settings (level of attenuation) on each of the five kinds of controls above for achieving unity gain or just the best sound? Including the "Master Vol" probably throws a monkey wrench into the question but it does have a profound impact on a preset's overall volume so I thought I would include it. Additionally this is probably a dumb question but I wanted to confirm that my understanding of the "Ch Vol" on amp blocks is correct. Does the "Ch Vol" in essence alter the ratio of amp block volume to the rest of the amps/effects in the preset? It is my understanding that the "Master" and "Drive" settings are what determine the grit and volume of the amp (like a physical amp). I would expect a significant increase in "Ch Vol" to have a psychoacoustic effect but outside of that it should not alter the amp's tone or grit, etc.. In other words, how do I ideally balance the "Ch Vol" to the output block volume and the physical Volume control? I guess at the core my question is how do I appropriately balance/use the "Ch Vol" setting on amp blocks, the "Level" setting on the output block, the large physical volume knob, and all the other available controls that impact a preset's volume?

I would echo that stereo mixes provide much more interesting mixes for recordings and are pretty much the standard there. However we generally run a mono mix live. The problem we have found with stereo mixes to FOH in live situations is that we can't depend on having a scenario where everyone in the room is roughly in the center of the stereo image. This means that audience members on the right or left predominantly would hear the half of the stereo signal from the FOH speaker(s) on their side. They lose part or all of the other half of the signal, in the case of many effects that means they may only hear the dry or wet part of the signal, or one singer too loud and the other barely at all, or worse yet with rotary or delay effects they can end up hearing almost nothing when the harmony, rotary, or delay switches or is mixed to the speaker on the other side. Phasing issues can also become more pronounced in a stereo mix. But..., if you find yourself in a scenario where you can use a stereo FOH mix they offer way more flexibility and some incredible potential for Brian May, Leslie type moving delays and harmonies and speaker rotation, more sophisticated and often pleasing blends of sound, and all sorts of cool musical mayhem and guitar sounds. We just rarely play gigs where we find ourselves able to run a stereo mix, so we have focused on our mono mix. Maybe it comes down to which is more important to getting your particular band's sound across as well as the size of the venue. You may prefer a stereo image that may capture the band's sound better but not always be perfect for listeners not in the center of the stereo image, or, a mono image that provides a more consistent but perhaps also a less interesting mix. If you use a lot of guitar harmony, rotary, etc. or just plain prefer stereo no matter what, I suppose that may end up dictating your choice.

It still seems to me that parallel loop operation could be achieved with proper routing and still maintain a more intuitive 0% dry, 100% wet operation on the "Mix" parameter, but I would be the first to say that I may not understand all of the ramifications of using a parallel versus a serial loop. Here is an explanation of the two: http://www.soldano.com/amp-help/whats-the-difference-between-a-series-and-a-parallel-effects-loop/

I agree, the loss of granularity/resolution, the counter-intuitive operation, and the lack of standardization in methodology used on different effects does not make sense to me. Wouldn't standardizing all mod effects to the usual 0% dry, 100% wettest make the most sense and be the simplest way to proceed?

Thanks! Should have done a better job searching on this topic, did not realize you had already started a thread on this.