DBCrocky

Ok great, that is very helpful information - the Helix is sending a CC69 in response to a CC69. This isn't a PC issue then. First, I would check one more time to make sure that MIDI thru is OFF, but I believe you when you say it is off. Then I would check your Instant access slots in Command Center. They can be configured to send a midi message each time you change the snapshot. You might have set one of these to send a MIDI CC69 message when you were trying to get this to work, and forgotten to remove it. You might also try setting this up on a fresh preset. If it works right there, you know you've got something in the preset you are working on that is sending a CC69 in response to a snapshot change.

From the Helix Manual: Press Bank Up and Bank Dn simultaneously to enter Snapshot Mode

You might be sending other MIDI commands that your Helix is reacting to. I would bet that you have the MIDI PC Send Receive turned on. You might be sending a PC message which triggers your Helix reload the preset, triggering another PC message and so on. If you have a PC with a MIDI interface, MIDI-OX is a good freeware program so you can monitor exactly what the Helix is sending via MIDI out.

The best way to get a good 12-string emulation is to pick up a Variax Standard. It has Electric Rickenbacker 12 String models that would be perfect to Tom Petty or The Byrds. You also get good acoustic 6 and 12 string models, as well as other acoustic models, alternate tunings, and lot's of configurability via software. All changeable at the touch of a Helix footswitch.

The only thing you are missing is for Peter Hamm to show up and criticize you for not using the Helix Amp Blocks instead.

I am not sure because your FCB1010 is modified, but I am familiar with this issue on the unmodified FCB1010. So, basically, the FCB1010 can send up to five PC messages, up to 2 CC messages. In setup mode, you configure the PC messages on switch 1 to 5, and the CC messages on switches 6 and 7. The issue is the for Bank changes to work, the CC #32 message have to come BEFORE the PC message. However, as we have been discussing, the most common stuation is to send the PC first (to change the target devices preset, and then send the CC messages. Behringer's fix for this is that they transmit the PC messages 1-4, then the CC messages 6,7 then PC message 5. So if you put your PC message on switch #1, and your CC#32 message on switch #6, it won't work because the PC message is sent before the CC message. But if your put your PC message on switch #5 and your CC#32 message on switch #6, it WILL work because the CC message is sent before the PC message. I don't know how your UNO modified FCB1010 changes this. BTW, if you have a windows PC, the MIDI-OX shareware program is an excellent way to "sniff" the MIDI output of a device to see what it is really doing. Also note that if you don't want to change setlists, you can still select Helix patches with just a PC message by itself.

So there are different types of switches on the Helix, and how they interact with the LED's depend on what type of switch you are pressing. Preset switches operate like you want them to, because you can only have one preset active at a time. So selecting a preset turns other preset switches LEDs off. Snapshot switches act like you want them to, because you can have only one snapshot active at a time. Selecting a snapshot will turn the LEDs for the other snapshot switches off. Stomp switches don't work like that, they turn on and off independently of other switches. For instance, if you had a distortion, a compressor, a delay, and a reverb on four stomp switches, you could turn them all on, all off, or any other combination, so you wouldn't want turning your reverb on to turn your led for your distorion off. If you are using Stomp switches, you will not get the results you are looking for. You could do it with Preset switches, but most users here would not be happy with that because of the half-second silent gap you get when changing presets. So that leaves Snapshots, which are perfect for what you are trying to do. I would suggest you look at the manual about switching modes between Preset Mode, Snapshot Mode, and Stomp Mode, and also at the Global Settings > Footswitches to additionally change/configure what kind of switches you are dealing with in each of the above Modes. Once you have a handle on how you are setting up your switches and how you can get to Snapshot switches, look at the section in the Manual about how Snapshots work. Basically, you have eight snapshots within a Preset. Changing a snapshot can change a lot of things, including Effect Block on/off and other Effect Block parameters. Additionally, you can have the selecting of each snapshot send a different MIDI Program Change message. Most importantly, selecting a snapshot with a snapshot switch turns it's LED on and all of the other snapshot LED's off.

You can program a switch to turn on/off a Helix effect, or to send any MIDI CC message, or both. None of the switch control of Helix "Blocks", like turning them on/off or adjusting parameters within them, relies on any internal MIDI CC numbers. Well, it's a pretty good pedalboard in terms of midi. I have a lot of MIDI footswtiches, and by far the BEST is the Gordius Little Giant. It was made by a guy in Belgium, his website is still there but I don't know if he is still selling them. You can assign ANY sequence of MIDI messages to any switches, plus a lot other Gordius Commands. For instance, you can assign a series of Note On / Note Off messages interspersed with delays and have it actually be a rudimentary sequencer. You can have certain switches be global and others be per patch. You can define individual switches to either be Toggling Stomp, Momentary Stomp, or Preset switches, you don't have to have 4 of one type on one row and 4 of the bottom type on another row. And of course, I got him to modify one for me so the bank down swtich isn't on the bottom row, which drives me crazy. I've looked at the RJM and LiquidFoot switches, they seem pretty nice and I will probably get an RJM within the next few months. But the Helix does have everything most folks would need, along with the effects loops, to successfully integrate 3rd party midi devices with the Helix.

FWIW, From John Fast of MIDI Solutions: Hi Dave, Thank you for your inquiry. I've also received requests from a few other customers to add some timer functions to the Event Processor, it's difficult to add as a one-off custom modification but I'd eventually like to make them permanent addition to the product, unfortunately I'm currently working on some other projects and may not be able to complete it for a while. However I thought a little more about this and it occurred to me that the footcontroller is likely sending exactly the same number of CC messages after each PC message, so if the Event Processor could count down a specific number of CC messages before allowing them to pass that might be another way to resolve the problem, and the Event Processor offers a sequence function which can do just this. Attached is a file containing the settings to program the Event Processor to filter exactly four CC messages after every PC message it receives. If you examine the settings you'll see that the sequence definitions contain six steps, this is because one step is required to allow the PC message to reset the sequence, four steps are for filtering CC messages, and the final step is the repeated step to allow all future CC messages to pass. You can modify the settings to count down any number of steps by right-clicking on settings #8 and #9. Best regards, John Fast, MIDI Solutions Inc. www.midisolutions.com F0 00 00 50 28 00 F7 { Clear All Settings - allow all MIDI events not specified below to pass through unchanged } F0 00 00 50 28 21 00 00 02 00 7F 01 03 00 7F F7 B0 00 00 { Setting #1: Filter all Control Change events on all MIDI channels. Continue to process settings (right-click to edit) } F0 00 00 50 28 24 07 09 01 06 06 00 02 00 7F F7 C0 00 { Setting #8: When Program Change events on all MIDI channels are received, jump to step #6 of the sequence beginning at setting #10, with 1 event per step, containing a total of 6 steps. Continue to process settings (right-click to edit) } F0 00 00 50 28 24 08 09 01 06 7C 00 02 00 7F 01 03 00 7F F7 B0 00 00 { Setting #9: When Control Change events on all MIDI channels are received, jump to the previous step of the sequence beginning at setting #10, with 1 event per step, containing a total of 6 steps. When the first step of the sequence is reached, remain at the first step. Continue to process settings (right-click to edit) } F0 00 00 50 28 45 09 02 02 00 7F 03 03 00 7F F7 B0 00 00 { Setting #10: Sequence Event: Control Change with the Control Change number obtained from the incoming X value and scaled to the outgoing range 0 - 127, and with the value obtained from the incoming Y value and scaled to the outgoing range 0 - 127, on all MIDI channels. Continue to process settings (right-click to edit) }

Yes, you can choose which PC message to send on preset load. In fact, you have six slots, so you can send up to 6 PC messages on preset load, all of them configurable to whichever one you want. Even better, you can put a different message into each of the six slots PER SNAPSHOT. So, you can have the Helix send PC messages within a preset when you change snapshots. So once you load a preset, you can configure the switches to also send MIDI messages of various types. One of the types is a CC Toggle message. For this type of message, the switch will send a CC message with one value when you hit it, and the switch will light up. Then when you hit the switch again, it sends a message with a different value, and it goes dim. The CC Toggle message is usually used for turning on/off certain effects within a patch. Say for instance, you are using an external FX unit controlled by MIDI, like an Eventide rack unit. When you select a preset, it sends a PC message to the rack unit to select a patch on it. Now, we might have a switch to turn on/off the reverb on the rack unit, using CC messages. When you save this Helix preset, it will remember whether you had the Reverb on or off (switch lit or unlit). Then when you select the preset, after sending the PC message to the rack unit, it will send the appropriate CC message to turn the Reverb on or off (and light or un-light the switch). This is how almost everyone wants it to work, one guy on here had a very special need to not want the Helix to send the CC message and set the Reverb to the default.

Well, if that is your goal, all I can tell you is to put your idea into ideascape and cross your fingers (but don't hold your breath). However, if your goal is to make your rig respond the way you want to, there are other options. 1) First, the idea for you would be a device with a midi in and a midi out, you would put in between your Helix and your AmpSim computer. It would pass MIDI messages through, but if it receives a PC message, it would filter all CC messages for 1 second (or whatever short interval you desired). Unfortunately, I don't know of such a device :( 2) So, academically, you COULD re-program each of your Helix patches so the defaults match your AmpSim's default. This WOULD work, but I understand, you don't want to spend the time doing it. 3) Another option would be to use a MIDI Solutions Event Processor in between the Helix and AmpSim computer. The Event Processor could be programmed to turn Note messages into CC messages, with the note number mapping to the CC number and the velocity mapping to the CC value. Then you could reprogram your CC Toggles to be Note messages with the Latching feature turned on. Notes don't get transmitted by Helix on PC change, so bingo! But of course, this has the same drawback as above, time spent reprogramming. 4) Contact MIDI Solutions (http://www.midisolutions.com/prodcst.htm) I found John Fast to be quite responsive. Describe your problem to him. He might be able to modify the Event Processor with an option where a PC command would trigger a CC filter for a short amount of time. 5) Do a search for software. I typically don't use computers in my MIDI rigs, so I am not as familiar, but there are software programs out there that will do filtering and remapping and such. Their may be something out there that will do what you want. 6) Look for another midi controller, RJM and LiquidFoot controllers are highly configurable and may be able to do exactly what you are looking for.

Ok, I just re-read your post. Do you mean that your device responds to different PC values to switch channels? For instance, PC#5 switches to channel A, and PC#6 switches to channel B, and you want to put PC#5 on one switch, PC#6 on another switch, and have hitting one switch turn it's LED on and the other switch's LED off. If that is the case, you can do that with snapshots - First, configure the Helix so that either the top row or the bottom row or both rows of switches control Snapshots. Then go in to Control Center and pick one of the Lightning bolt slots. Hit the switch for one snapshot, and then change the Program/Bank and set the PC Channel and Value you want. Then hit the switch for another snapshot, and change the Value to the one you want for that snapshot. Save the preset, and you're good. Selecting one snapshot will send the first PC Value, selecting the next will send the PC Value for that snapshot, and the last selected snapshot switch will be lighted. If you are already using snapshots, and you want this switching control to be independent, your are out of luck, Helix can't do that. There are more sophisticated MIDI footswitches that can, if you want to pay the extra $$$

Can you be more specific? There are many ways to switch channels - what device are you switching channels on? Using the Bank/Program option for a switch in Command Center basically sends a MIDI Program Change message, and it sends the same message every time, which is why it doesn't latch. The ideal solution would be if you can configure you're device to respond CC messages. For instance, getting a CC message on Channel 5, CC# 20, Value 0 switched it to channel A, and getting a CC message on Channel 5, CC#20, Value 127 switched your device to channel B. That way you could use a Toggle CC instead of the Bank/Program. If your device can only switch channels on a PC message, for instance Channel 5, PC#6, you could put small device like the MIDI Solutions Event Processor in between the Helix and the Device, and program the Event Process to convert all CC message on Channel 5 CC#20 to Channel 5 PC#6 messages. Assuming you are sending that device a PC message to switch to a preset and it always comes up in the same channel (say, channel A), this would work perfectly. All of the values above (Channel 5, CC#20, PC#6) I just made up, of course. If I could see the MIDI spec for the device you are trying to control, I could provide some more specific help.

Well I found this, which appear to be you, discussing changing presets via PC commands and possibly using Bank MSB and LSB CC messages to change banks and access more than 128 presets: https://www.scuffhamamps.com/forum/6-general-discussion/7966-midi-control I looked at the S-Gear Manual here: https://www.scuffhamamps.com/images/documents/sgear_usermanual.pdf It seems it says you use PC messages to send presets, and you use CC messages to control amp parameters, like Volume, Tone, or Delay Time. This is typically how PC and CC messages are used. So again, perhaps you explain to me exactly what CC messages you need to send to change presets, and why a toggling CC is needed?

Ok, well, no luck pulling up a Amplitube MIDI spec. It seems they don't make their user manual available until you buy the product. Not very smart on this company's part. I did find this: http://cgi.ikmultimedia.com/ikforum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12936 Let's see if I can have more luck with S-Gear.

The difference between Toggling CC message and A Momentary CC message has nothing to do with the message itself, A MIDI CC message is a MIDI CC message. The only data in a MIDI CC message are 1) MIDI Channel, 2) CC Number, and 3) CC Value. The only difference is that for momentary, you send the same exact message every time you hit the button, and for toggling there are two messages, with the same Channel and Number, but different Values. The first time you hit the button, one of the messages is sent, the second time you hit the button, the other message is sent, and it keeps alternating. So, perhaps you can tell me exactly what you mean by "Certain sims, like Amplitube and S-Gear, ONLY work with toggling CCs". The need for a toggling CC implies that the sim has two states that are controlled by that CC. As an example: CC #20 might be Reverb On (Value 0) and Reverb Off (Value 127), or CC #21 might be Clean Channel (Value 0) and Drive Channel (Value 64). Yet it seems you are saying you need a toggling CC to activate presets, which is why I am confused. Let's pick Amplitube. First, lets get our terminology straight. You use a PC message to load a Sim. Then you use a CC message to load a Preset within that Sim. Can you tell me exactly what CC Number(s) messages are used to load presets, and what the CC Value means? Meanwhile I am going to see if I can research Amplitube's CC Specification to see what is going on.

You can turn off the automatic send of a fixed PC on preset change in global settings. Then in command center, there are a number of options. You can attach 6 MIDI messages that send via preset or snapshot changes. You can select to send MIDI via switches, exp pedals, or even Variax knobs if you have a Variax connected via VDI cable. Does it have limitations? Of course, I haven't seen a MIDI controller that doesn't. There are certainly high-end MIDI controllers, like RJM and LiquidFoot, that can do much more. On a flexibility scale I give it 7 out of 10. If the Helix floor is the centerpiece of your rig, it certainly gives you a lot of options for controlling other MIDI gear in your rig. If you want ultimate control, I would recommend the Helix Rack and a high end MIDI controller, of course for more $$. Here is the doc page where it goes into what you can do with MIDI in the Command Center: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/973310/Line-6-Helix.html?page=38

Hey man, I am just trying to help. I am not asking you "why not just use the fcb". I am asking you why sending the default CC's on preset select is an issue. I know you WANT to not send them, but why not? Toggling CC's are for switching between one of two values. What are the CC's doing that sending the default of the two values on preset select is such an issue? I know a few MIDI tricks, If I understood why you need Toggling CC's but sending the default on preset select was an issue, perhaps I could help with a workaround.

Hmm, I don't get it rd2rk. You say you are using Toggling CC's to control an amp sim. So for example, you select a preset, and it sends a PC to select an ampsim preset. Then you have a button with a Toggling CC. So lets say, value 0 turns the amp sim's reverb on, and value 127 turns it off. Let's say, when you select the amp sim by using a PC without any CC's, it's reverb is off by default. Then, wouldn't you tap that button until unlit, then save the preset. Now when you select the preset, it sends a CC value of 0, turning off the reverb, which was already off, and you are ready to go?

I wonder whether this is possible with the current hardware/firmware. The Variax has a bunch of different models, which you can select one of two ways: 1) Turn a knob, and 2) Send a command via the VDI cable. But to do what you want, which I take is to tell the variax to load the model of the current knob position, would require there either 1) A command you could send the variax that would do that, 2) the helix to be able to ask the variax where it's knobs are set so it could send a command to change the variax to that model. It may be that the variax hardware/firmware does not support either of these, and it would require at least a Variax firmware upgrade or even a hardware upgrade to do so.

I think the idea is that it will send the CC#'s for your default values, so your button lights and actual sound correspond. Then as you press buttons to send additional CC's the lights stay in sync. So can you set your preset up to have the buttons, (and therefor the CC's sent), to put your ampsim into it's default starting state you desire for that patch?

For me, the term User Scales means you can define your own, instead of using a common scale. For instance, on the Boss GT Pro, you can define for each scale tone what the harmony notes should be. They don't have to all be a specific interval within a particular scale. This can be really helpful in duplicating specific harmony parts from specific songs, but Helix does not have this feature.

You can get some of the extra functionality you desire by using a top end MIDI controller. For instance, using an RJM product, you could have a bottom row that had 4 snapshots and 2 switches, while on the next row you had 4 switches and 2 snapshots. Finally on the top row, you could have bank up / down buttons and a button to bring up a whole new page, kinda like the Mode button on the Helix. The downside is that it will take $$ and time to learn to program it.

If you have a Variax Standard or Variax JTV hooked to a Helix, you can repurpose the volume and tone knobs to be controllers. First, you would change your input block to be Variax, then go the second page of the input block's parameters. Here you would set the Preset Volume and/or Preset Tone settings from don't force to whatever you want them to be (I typically peg them out at ten) and then set the the Lock Control to Volume and Tone. Now the knobs no longer control the Variax volume and tone. Now you can go into Controller Assign screens. The Variax Volume and Tone knobs are among the controllers you can assign, just like the expression pedals. You can assign several parameters to the knobs, along with min and max values. So for instance, you could assign the Volume Knob to control amp block's gain from 25% to 75%, and as well set the amp block's master volume from 80% to 50%. Now the knob will add gain overdrive while not increasing the overall volume (note the specific values are made up, you will have to determine the actual min/max values depending on the amp block's characteristics and what you actually want.)

Wow, that's your favorite story, how you decided to treat your customers with disrespect and laugh at them. And I see a lot of that on this forum in the short time I've been here.