datacommando

Hi Ka5par, Now, that would be a really great help, but I guess most Helix users on this forum are not going to be troubled by anything to do with MIDI. They are probably more concerned with putting in crazy requests for digital models of outrageously expensive custom/boutique equipment and amps such as a Komet 60, Lerxst Omega, Friedman BE-100 or a 3 Monkeys Grease Monkey MkII. Oh yeah! When you have done those, Line 6, how about this. Could we please have a Rockett Allan Holdsworth Signature OD/Boost, in the next Firmware update. Should be easy - Fractal users seem to get a truck load of custom amps and effects every week - free! Don't ya just love it? - I have spent years trying to get rid of noise from stuff and these guys want to be able to hear the valves rattle in the digital model. I would expect if you mention MIDI to any of them, they would be likely to ask "what sort of valves do you put in that?", or "does it go up to eleven?".

Hi Ka5par, On page 19 of the Helix owners manual it has a section that mentions that: "Adding a mono effects block will collapse any preceding STEREO blocks on the same path to MONO". I don't know if that "collapse to mono" will also reduce the demand on the Helix DSPs or not? If it does free up more blocks - then it should be no problem. If not, then a mono option may be the way to go! Maybe it is worth trying to see/hear what happens. It's just an idea, but I hope this helps. Regards

So, I'm not quite insane - just yet! Today, I thought that I might simply try kicking everything in the nuts again! It sometimes works. This time I went for a factory reset on the Helix box - startup and then press down FS8 + FS9 & FS12. Well, that should do it - yes? Erm - NO! not really. So then I went for the AKAI Pro trouble shooting routine for fixing USB MIDI faults. (basically the same stuff that any other tech would/should do) Troubleshooting USB MIDI devices on Mac : Akai Professional - Iconic music production gear, including the legendary MPC Ran through all these procedures - one more time, just to make sure I had not missed anything. I even went as far as totally removing all the old audio Midi config files and starting fresh. So, now it gets even more weird - I cannot get the Roland Controller to trigger anything at all - it's like it just does not exist! If I go back into the Mac AMS to do the "Test Setup" while using Midi Monitor (to sniff the events in the stream) when MIDI thru is switched off inside the Helix, I get this sort of stuff: (FYI: the numbers on the left are simply time codes). 16:09:00.678 To HELIX Note On 16 D3 127 16:09:00.678 To HELIX Note On 16 G♯2 127 16:09:00.678 To HELIX Note On 16 A♯7 127 16:09:00.678 From HELIX Note On 1 G♯7 127 16:09:00.678 From HELIX Note On 1 D-2 127 16:09:00.679 From HELIX Note On 1 C7 127 So it seems that what's happening is MIDI is getting routed from the output back into the MIDI in - Hello! I don't think that it should do that. And, also, you're right about the MIDI thru thing being whacky. I found that if MIDI thru is turned on I get this: 16:09:01.242 From HELIX Note Off 16 D3 0 16:09:01.243 From HELIX Note Off 16 G♯2 0 16:09:01.244 From HELIX Note Off 16 A♯7 0 16:09:01.324 From HELIX Active Sense 16:09:01.624 From HELIX Active Sense 16:09:01.925 From HELIX Active Sense As soon as it stops sending the note on/off messages, it looks like some sort of constant handshake thing is happening - until you switch of the MIDI thru and then the"From HELIX Active Sense" messages stop - instantly! Oh, yeah the owners manual states which Foot Switches are reserved for specific MIDI CC messages for Global Functions etc. Enough for today - need to rest in a darkened room.

Now, now! - Don't feed the Trolls Settle down now, guys. In the good old days, squabbling children like you two were left to perish on windswept mountain tops. Hi Ka5par, Yes, Helix is a MIDI interface and in my case it did work perfectly in both LogicProX and GBand until a couple of weeks back. All midi messages were functioning perfectly, note on, note off, pitch bend, aftertouch, velocity - everything! According to the info on pages 37 and 38 in the Owner's Manual it shows a MIDI implementation chart for MIDI CC (Continuous Controller), Bank/Prog, Note on, Most Significant Bit, Least Significant Bit messages etc. So, it should work - but it has ceased to function as specified. Testing today - I decided to reset everything one more time, just in case a bug was stuck in the throat of one of the processors. O.K. I first cleared the Helix to an empty box - start up with holding down FS5 + FS12 (Zaps everything). Next restart Helix with FS9 + FS10 held down (Restores presets, setlists, IRs, and both backdoor and user-selectable Global parameters to factory). Then restart one more time with FS10 + FS11 which upgrades the existing presets to latest format. Helix should now be perfect - yes? Well, actually - No! Load up an old GarageBand track with audio and MIDI and playback. The audio seems to be back to being usable now, fairly stable. MIDI still not functioning correctly. ​Just to check that I had not gone mad, I cleaned the dust of the old Kawai K1m synth module, I then connected the signal from the MIDI Thru of Helix to the K1m MIDI in. Press any key on the controller keyboard and get no sound, try again and maybe a note triggers every 4 or 5 attempts. Not good! Hook up the K1m to the keyboard directly and all is perfect. The error MUST be in the Helix MIDI In to Out/Thru. I opened up the OSX Audio MIDI Setup panels to do a "Test Setup" and it seems that Helix is not responding to anything from the controller keyboard. Strange, it did before this craziness. Anyhow, when I click on the "Helix Out" test triangle, it turns blue, as it should, and I can get a continuous stream of data from the Helix MIDI thru into the Kawai module. Very strange! Also when I click the out triangle the input triangle of the Helix turns blue as if it is receiving data on the input side! It's like some weird loop - I just don't understand what's happening. O.K. that's it for today's testing - I need a beer!

Hi, soundog, That was exactly my point about the term "interface" and when I first stared using MIDI, back in the Stoneage, we would have killed for the capability this box of tricks has inside. Some great MIDI interfaces which I used to use with the old DIN equipped kit, were a bunch of little plastic boxes full of MIDI wizardry made by a guy named Phil Rees. One excellent item was the V3 splitter (thru) box. Stick a 9 volt battery in and get on with life, 30 years down the line I've still got one and it still works. The guy is a MIDI genius and I think he maybe still around making some of this stuff. I think you can find out about him here: http://www.philrees.co.uk/products/thruunit.htm As I originally stated - The Helix has worked perfectly until a couple of weeks back when this MIDI weirdness started. Everything else about it is superb - this has got to be just a glitch - but a damned annoying glitch! I don't want the Dream Rig turning into the Nightmare Rig!

Hi again, Ka5par. Thanks for pointing that out. Possibly the Line 6 Uber Guru has a completely different concept of what an interface is? Helix has DIN for MIDI IN, OUT/THRU and USB for audio plus MIDI Control and somewhere inside the black box, the MIDI bitstream is passed from DIN sockets to Universal Serial Bus and vice versa, so, - maybe it's not an interface - it's a duck? I simply did the "Duck Test" to find my conclusion, i.e.: If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. ;) This is my feeble attempt at being amusing!

Hi Ka5par, Well, I don't understand why you would make the comment that, "Helix is not a MIDI interface". According to info on the Line 6 Helix promo site, they mention this: POWERFUL MASTER CONTROLLERWhen you need to incorporate external devices via MIDI, Helix offers more flexibility than any multi-effect ever. In addition to powerful real time MIDI control, Helix can send up to six separate commands at patch recall that aren’t assigned to a footswitch, which means you can change a patch on a synth, start a sequencer, and turn up a fader on an external digital mixer, all with one press of a footswitch. Add two additional expression pedal inputs, CV/Expression out, and external amp switching, and Helix can be the command center for any size rig. Plus a review on Ultimate Guitar.com states. https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/reviews/guitar_effects/line_6/helix/index.html?no_takeover This is all about digital I/O - MIDI 5-pin DIN connectors (extra credit for remembering not all MIDI gear is USB-friendly... especially the gear invented before USB ), S/PDIF digital out, and the L6 LINK out option for interfacing with other Line 6 gear. Then there's the USB connector, and an IEC-compatible receptacle for the longer-than-average line cord. So, a powerful master controller with all these digital in and out connections and real time MIDI control of external devices - that sure sounds like the description of an interface to me. Both audio and MIDI. Or, maybe I just misunderstood your comment?

@ "soundog" I feel your pain dude - I would rather stick pins in my eyes! Life is too short to wade through the murky world of MicroSloth.

Hi, again BobTheDog, Mmmm. Well, maybe Yamaha should be kicking some butt at Line 6 about this - that would be fun. As for Apple, seems they just want to sell phones and watches, right! But, FYI and everyone else who maybe interested, the latest info I can feedback is - as noted previously - my 5k Retina is now running OS X El Capitan 10.11.14 and Helix is on Firmware v1.10.0. I decided to give the Mac core audio/MIDI drivers and daemons some serious "sudo", "kill audio", "grep" and "kext" (don't ask!) whacking commands from the Terminal. I just love that name "Terminal", it's so totally menacing - although, I don't like it when it's used with the word "Air" - that's kinda frightening! Anyhow that must have zapped a few bugs, gremlins etc., which got the Mac flushed and once again able to cope with all the available sample rates: 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz, or 96 kHz. Trouble is the Helix is still shown as fixed at 48 kHz - Doh! That's got to be down to Line 6 - right? O.K. so, testing today with a very old Logic MIDI only project, which was simply 5 channels of sequenced data (synth pads, percussion, drums etc.), it played back faultlessly. This track was more than 4 minutes and I left it looping without a glitch until I got to the point of wanting to open a vein (long enough and it was a bit of a boring backing!). Not a problem, audio clean and no trace of the bit crusher type noises. Then I checked the Roland keyboard input - yuck! Press a key and trigger a note, press again - nothing, press again - note, after long delay. This is madness - except, what I did notice was that if I brought up a MIDI track in piano roll edit mode and used the mouse on the tiny inbuilt MIDI input keyboard - well hell - it all works perfect. So all the MIDI data inside the Mac behaves as it should, external MIDI note input shows as intermittent and just plain wrong. From this, I can only conclude that the input from the external controller keyboard going to the DIN socket on the Helix is getting fried when converting from DIN to MIDI over USB, because the data is sure not arriving in the DAW the way it was sent (see earlier post on how keyboard functions as expected with old Focusrite Saffire DIN, velocity sensing, aftertouch, Mod wheel, whatever - all good). This is nuts! So where the heck do I go from here? I still have no functioning DIN-MIDI input. The Helix is not doing what it is advertised as being capable of. Oh, that could be very awkward! I may have to check the UK Sale of Goods Act 1979 - where it states: goods as described, fit for purpose etc. Mmmm? Any Line 6 staff care to comment now? Hi "gunpointmetal", You would have thought that any ASIO driver issues would have been spotted by Line 6 during beta testing this stuff before it is released into the wild and onto an unsuspecting public, who have a tendency to believe the published tech spec data for the product. We just think, "Wow, this is slick!" and hand over the cash! As for Apple - yeah right! Do you want to buy a phone? They have lost the plot! Switch to PC? - How much pain does any one person need in a lifetime? I haven't laughed so much since my grandma got her tit stuck in the mangle.

I started this on it's own thread, but someone suggested it's some sort of bug and that I should try reporting/posting this in here - hope that's O.K ;) . I’m not sure if this is a software or hardware problem but now it’s really driving me crazy. Since acquiring my Helix at the end of November 2015, I have been using it at the heart of of my studio set up, effectively replacing my old POD HD500 and Focusrite Saffire Firewire interface recording system. Essentially the Helix is connected via USB to my 6 month old, 3.3GHz iMac Retina 5K (with 32GB of RAM installed). From new the Helix has had every update done, up to the latest firmware v1.06.5 on the release date16th Feb and the Mac is now OS X El Capitan 10.11.14 (installed 28th March, a while after problems started). My near field powered monitors are cabled to the Helix 1/4†out sockets with gold plated jack plugs and my Variax then hooks up on the dedicated input. In addition my, very old (if it’s good enough for Brian Eno then it’s good enough for me), RolandED PC-180 MIDI keyboard controller which uses the old school DIN plug to input MIDI data to the various software synths available in GarageBand or whatever, goes to “MIDI in†on the rear of the Helix. I have to say that the swap over was quick and painless (i.e. no drivers etc.). Everything simply worked perfectly normally, as it should, until about 2 weeks back (early March) when things started to get very weird. Any audio from iTunes or via the internet seems to function normally. It’s when I playback a GarageBand/Logic X track, it will start out O.K., and then after very short while (less than a couple of minutes) the audio degrades to the point where it sounds like it is running through a bit crusher effect, spluttering and popping until it ultimately fades into silence. This then becomes a system wide problem, screwing any and all up audio coming from any other source, iTunes, YouTube etc. The only way to clear the bug is by switching back and forth to the iMac onboard audio, except on returning to your favourite DAW it happens again, and again, and again. Apart from the audio output being screwed, the MIDI has also ceased to work properly. Any pre-recorded MIDI played back O.K. until the audio channels start to go flakey. Using the PC-180 keyboard I can get soft synths to trigger intermittently on single notes in GBand, but in Logic - not a sound, nada, zip, zilch, zero. It’s totally bizarre, because nothing has really changed - once the recording system had been set up, it was, fire and forget, nothing else required. It just worked! O.K. To try and figure this out I wanted to go through everything in the chain. First hurdle - cannot test the Retina iMac and FocusRite because the interface is FireWire400 into the module and the Mac is Thunderbolt to FW800 crossover. ARRGH! Right! I decided to connect everything up to the old iMac, how it had been pre Helix days. So I have the Focusrite patched to the MIDI keyboard on DIN, that sends/receives audio and MIDI via FireWire and outputs audio to the monitors. Yep - that works just fine, no stuttering, soft synths respond to slow swelling chords and fast single note sequences. So, now I use Helix as the hub, in the way listed above except this time it’s the old Mac running GarageBand. Well, I think you can guess what happens - correct we are back with the spluttering, stuttering, crackling popping and fading audio and flakey MIDI. Now don’t get me wrong but, when it comes to this hi tech MIDI sort of stuff, friends and associates usually ask me to fix it for them (hence the handle “data commandoâ€). I’ve been using computers and MIDI for over 30 years, in 1984 I owned an early Roland JX3P - the first synth with MIDI - which was hooked up to a Yamaha CX5M II MSX Computer System, and later to an Atari 1040ST (1986) running Sternberg’s Pro24 Sequencer (early version of Cubase). I still have a collection of rack mounted vintage synth/sample,FX modules e.g., Roland U110 and D110, Yamaha TX81Z and SPX90, Kawai K3M and K1M plus an AKAI S950 and XE8. Oh yeah, there is a Roland GR33, BOSS GT6, PODXT Live and a HD500 along the back wall, and a Korg digital drum machine in a box somewhere in here. Please note: on the iMac I have done all the usual “fix it†stuff - repair permissions, reset SMC and zapped the PRAM/NVRAM. There must be someone out here in Helix land who can maybe give me a clue has to WTF is happening - please help! And while I’m at it - why does Line 6 and the Helix state audio sample rates of 44.1, 48, 88.2 and 96KHz. On the Mac only 48 can be selected - surely some mistake? See attached png. At the moment this whole shebang is totally FUBAR! To find the attached png and the continuation of the original post check here - let's hope someone from Line 6 is interested enough to follow up this!: http://line6.com/support/topic/19463-bizarre-audio-midi-fault-its-driving-me-nuts/

Hi TexLefty65, Thanks for the input. Yep, I'm convinced that it's a problem with the USB data stream getting interrupted and/or corrupted, as the USB is carrying both the audio and data streams between the Helix and the Mac. Plus I did notice that my old project tracks were being re-sampled on the fly, that sort of stuff I can live with, but losing MIDI connectivity is a pain. I stated out thinking (and thanking) Yamaha must have suggested the DIN plugs for all us antiques that still have vintage sound modules in the rack. Regarding OS X - well when I took my Retina out of the box and connected to the internet the first thing it did was update from Yosemite to El Capo. That was on the day that it was fist released (Sept 30th 2015) and I've applied all the incremental updates ever since then. When the Helix arrived (mid November) straight out of the box it was patched in as the main interface, and as noted previously, everything just worked - and has done continuously until a couple of weeks back, when this madness started. Theoretically, nothing had changed for this strangeness to start - although, I may be charged with too much negative energy. This is, as stated above - pure voodoo! Hi zooey, Seems to be mainly an issue for Mac users AFAIK. Hi BobTheDog, See what I mean about "blame culture" - no one wants to take responsibility for the problem, even though both Line 6 and Apple are aware of this. As noted above, my first tests with the latest update v1.10.0 Helix and the latest OS X Hell Crapitan seems less lumpy on the audio chain but MIDI it seems is still a wipeout. More investigating to be done.

@ zooey That's actually very helpful. I guess I should get this back to base for a proper health check. I just don't like the idea of being with out the box of tricks if I can fix it another way. But hey!

Many thanks for the insight and response "soundog". Yep - I'm thinking that it's some sort of issue with the clock/chopper, but for the life of me cannot figure out why that would create the MIDI failure. Although when you think about it, it is simply a bunch of ones and zeros shooting down the USB wire. re: item 1) - I don't reckon it's an issue with the Roland or the DIN cables - noted above, everything works fine via FW interface to the old iMac, it's just a basic dumb controller squirting out a bunch of binary data. 2). The 48kHz sample rate issue on Mac OSX is noted on many other threads on this forum and, this far down the line, I thought should have been addressed and fixed by the tech crew! I'm wary of hooking the Helix to my wife's MacBook Pro to test it any further, cos if it screws the pooch - my life is over (I think you know what I mean). 3). Next on the list, I'm going to wade through and trash the whole OSX Audio MIDI setup plist, prefs etc. and clean the whole thing out, but I still suspect Helix as the culprit. Having said that, Apple will blame Line 6 and vice versa - we live in a blame culture. 4). I'm prone to suspect it's a software rather than hardware prob, but this sort of "voodoo" usually can't be replicated. You know what they say about any known computer problem - it will cease to exist in the presence of another technician. UPDATE FYI: I downloaded and installed the latest Helix Editor and Firmware v 1.10.0. Rebooted Helix and reset the Globals. Testing thus far shows that the audio seems to be more stable, even though it is still locked at 48kHz, and the MIDI data is a total loss in LogicProX and really flaky in GarageBand. I also have a copy of ProTools First which I wanted to check out as a test bed and it doesn't want to play nice on the MIDI. Some where down the line, stuff from the MIDI DIN to USB is getting corrupted. Thanks Right now I need a beer!

I’m not sure if this is a software or hardware problem but now it’s really driving me crazy. Since acquiring my Helix at the end of November 2015, I have been using it at the heart of of my studio set up, effectively replacing my old POD HD500 and Focusrite Saffire Firewire interface recording system. Essentially the Helix is connected via USB to my 6 month old, 3.3GHz iMac Retina 5K (with 32GB of RAM installed). From new the Helix has had every update done, up to the latest firmware v1.06.5 on the release date16th Feb and the Mac is now OS X El Capitan 10.11.14 (installed 28th March, a while after problems started). My near field powered monitors are cabled to the Helix 1/4†out sockets with gold plated jack plugs and my Variax then hooks up on the dedicated input. In addition my, very old (if it’s good enough for Brian Eno then it’s good enough for me), RolandED PC-180 MIDI keyboard controller which uses the old school DIN plug to input MIDI data to the various software synths available in GarageBand or whatever, goes to “MIDI in†on the rear of the Helix. I have to say that the swap over was quick and painless (i.e. no drivers etc.). Everything simply worked perfectly normally, as it should, until about 2 weeks back (early March) when things started to get very weird. Any audio from iTunes or via the internet seems to function normally. It’s when I playback a GarageBand/Logic X track, it will start out O.K., and then after very short while (less than a couple of minutes) the audio degrades to the point where it sounds like it is running through a bit crusher effect, spluttering and popping until it ultimately fades into silence. This then becomes a system wide problem, screwing any and all up audio coming from any other source, iTunes, YouTube etc. The only way to clear the bug is by switching back and forth to the iMac onboard audio, except on returning to your favourite DAW it happens again, and again, and again. Apart from the audio output being screwed, the MIDI has also ceased to work properly. Any pre-recorded MIDI played back O.K. until the audio channels start to go flakey. Using the PC-180 keyboard I can get soft synths to trigger intermittently on single notes in GBand, but in Logic - not a sound, nada, zip, zilch, zero. It’s totally bizarre, because nothing has really changed - once the recording system had been set up, it was, fire and forget, nothing else required. It just worked! O.K. To try and figure this out I wanted to go through everything in the chain. First hurdle - cannot test the Retina iMac and FocusRite because the interface is FireWire400 into the module and the Mac is Thunderbolt to FW800 crossover. ARRGH! Right! I decided to connect everything up to the old iMac, how it had been pre Helix days. So I have the Focusrite patched to the MIDI keyboard on DIN, that sends/receives audio and MIDI via FireWire and outputs audio to the monitors. Yep - that works just fine, no stuttering, soft synths respond to slow swelling chords and fast single note sequences. So, now I use Helix as the hub, in the way listed above except this time it’s the old Mac running GarageBand. Well, I think you can guess what happens - correct we are back with the spluttering, stuttering, crackling popping and fading audio and flakey MIDI. Now don’t get me wrong but, when it comes to this hi tech MIDI sort of stuff, friends and associates usually ask me to fix it for them (hence the handle “data commandoâ€). I’ve been using computers and MIDI for over 30 years, in 1984 I owned an early Roland JX3P - the first synth with MIDI - which was hooked up to a Yamaha CX5M II MSX Computer System, and later to an Atari 1040ST (1986) running Sternberg’s Pro24 Sequencer (early version of Cubase). I still have a collection of rack mounted vintage synth/sample,FX modules e.g., Roland U110 and D110, Yamaha TX81Z and SPX90, Kawai K3M and K1M plus an AKAI S950 and XE8. Oh yeah, there is a Roland GR33, BOSS GT6, PODXT Live and a HD500 along the back wall, and a Korg digital drum machine in a box somewhere in here. Please note: on the iMac I have done all the usual “fix it†stuff - repair permissions, reset SMC and zapped the PRAM/NVRAM. There must be someone out here in Helix land who can maybe give me a clue has to WTF is happening - please help! And while I’m at it - why does Line 6 and the Helix state audio sample rates of 44.1, 48, 88.2 and 96KHz. On the Mac only 48 can be selected - surely some mistake? See attached png. At the moment this whole shebang is totally FUBAR!

@ billdutcher Have a look in the custom tone section under Helix. I just uploaded a very, very basic extremely quick and dirty "SRV Lenny" patch which should give you somewhere to start. I also have to agree with the comments in the other posts here. Remember, It isn't down to just a single "magic" tone, SRV used various amps 'n' FX - Tube Screamer, Leslie, Marshall, Fender and of course the legendary Dumble. He had heavier gauge strings, plus lots of finger strength and a great deal of experience and technique and the semi tone drop in tuning. You could spend a fortune on replicating the gear he used and you'll never, ever sound like him - only an approximation. Helix is only one tool to start you on the path, let us all know how you get along with it - Enjoy!