Any tricks to fatten sound / fit in mix HD500 - PA direct?

[Messendger]

Hi guys,

I am not new to using modelers.  

 

I have been using an Acoustic guitar with hex pickup with a Roland VG8 for many years. (I'm a finger style player and I play rock).  I bought the HD500x so I could run direct with my electric guitars since they are much easier to play.   I'm not even coming close to getting my electric guitars to sit in the mix as well as my acoustic through the Roland VG8 live.  (I spent forever working on my sound with the acoustic and Roland… and now have spent months working with the HD500 with my electric guitars and I'm getting pretty frustrated).   

 

In the studio playing heavy rock, the HD500 is not bad.  But live through the PA, both my Strat and Les Paul both sound very thin.  I get a better Strat sound out of my Acoustic with the hex and Roland.  It just fits in the mix.  I never thought I'd be trying to get a Strat to sound as good as a modeled Strat out of an acoustic guitar.  But that's where I am today.  

 

I want this to work since it would make my set up easier as well as traveling, since having to carry an acoustic to outside shows is hell on the guitar and being a slave to a multi pin connector makes wireless impossible.  I perform a solo act / using tracks and so I need to run direct.  

 

Any suggestions to fatten up and get the imaging better (fitting in the mix) would be appreciated.  

 

Here is my Facebook link to some samples of what I'm doing in my solo act.  

 

https://www.facebook.com/BradSayreBand/app_7085335997?ref=page_internal

 

There is a complication track… all acoustic guitar through the Roand (doesn't sound acoustic though…. ) and live video so you guys can see what I'm doing with the acoustic.  

Thanks.  

 

PS - help!

 

 

 

 

  

[bjnette]

Mmm, How does the strat sound thru the roland?

 

They are completely different guitars and the strat is naturally thinner.Especially using the same patches.

 

Why not try and make the accoustic work thru the HD500.

I have used one thru it several times now and I use dual outputs so the acoustic tone is maintained with the modelling in the other

 

But as it is for a mix you could use the acoustic as well.

[Messendger]

Thank your reply bjnette

 

 

The acoustic has the GK 3 hex pic up to control the Roland.  

 

My music is rock.  Jeff Beck, Robin Trower,  Led Zep, Larry Carlton… as well as most of my originals.   Here is my website.  All of this CD was recorded with my acoustic.   www.BradSayre.com      I want to use my electrics to get the same sounds or better that I'm getting with the acoustic for my solo shows.   I don't use the acoustic sounds at all anymore.  I use a Godin classical for nylon work.  

 

 So the Strat, Paul and my other electrics would have to have the GK-3 hex pickups installed to run the Roland.  I don't want to do that.  I'd like to run the HD500 with a wireless.  The Roland uses multi pin cord that makes a wireless impossible.  (The HD 500 would just be used just for my solo show).

 

I also play in a rock band using Bogner Shiva's and a rack system.  Just wanting something simple like the HD500 to run direct in my solo show that will sound as good or better then the sound I'm using now with the acoustic into the Roland.   At the moment the HD500 is falling way short.  Not even in the ball park after months of trial and error.  I'm not at all lazy about working on my sound.  I'm just not getting results.  So I'm hoping this will reach somebody that has been using the HD 500 live that is really happy.  You can hear my sound on my links.  It is what it is.  I'm just hoping for more.  

[radatats]

wow, that's some amazing playing bro.  You didn't give us much of a starting point so forgive me if I state the obvious here. Not in the same league but there are some things that work for me.  I see you are direct to PA when solo so some tricks for full amp models.

 

- Use the Amp and Cab DEP.  Master of course for power section distortion, but also pull the Sag and Bias down to 20-30 as well.  Kick up the cab Res and Thump to 65 area.

 

- Put a Tube Comp right after the mixer, thresh around 50, level around 25, adjust to taste.  Also put a Boost Comp up front with Comp around 50 and play with Drive and Output to sweeten it up.

 

- Dual amp/cab models.  Try using the same amp with different cabs and mics to blend in that sweet spot.  Different tone stacks and gain levels that complement each other.  Think out of the box (you already have that nailed!) with the amps and cabs. Mix and match to get what you want.

 

- Change the mixer levels.  Set the pans to -34, 34 to keep some stereo separation but pull things more to the center.

 

Hopefully some of this helps!

[jandrio]

check out vids on attached playlist link; they r samples of live using HD500+JTV direct 2 PA.

in each vid description u can find the links 4 downloading the patches used and detailed analysis of how the patches were built.

since u do not have a JTV u shld change inputs 1/2 setting and tweak accordingly.

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3b7kXW444v4OpNy_vQaMFL1K9nPUittG

[pfsmith0]

Please take a look at http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/. It has lots of tips for fixing thinness. It may be as simple as using the Mid-Focus EQ at the end of your chain.

[Messendger]

Thank you all so much. Some great information and I do appreciate the time you guys have put into your sound.  Believe me I understand your work ethic.  

 

It will take me a couple of days just to tweak the unit… and like many of you…  I'll have to stop to go perform some shows.  Then back at it again.  

Your time is appreciated!

[billlorentzen]

The trick for me is finding the right amps, and tweaking them. Unfortunately the stock patches suck, so you will need to get into each amp to discover its full capabilities. My favorites are the Deluxe, the divided by 13, Dr Z and the soldano. I really don't have problems getting a fat sound when I want to.

[alienux]

What are the EQ settings on your channel on the PA?

 

You have to have a good thick mid-range to be heard in a live mix, with less bass and treble, otherwise you compete with keyboards, bass guitar, and vocals and either sound thin and weak or disappear altogether.

 

The reason I ask about the PA EQ settings is because once when I was playing live, I had my tone set exactly the way I usually did for playing live, with plenty of mids, but all of a sudden my sound was very weak and thin without me having made any changes. Turns out that someone had been messing with the EQ settings on my channel on the PA mixer and had the treble and bass really high, and the mids completely down, taking any fatness out of what my POD was feeding into the board. Once I saw that, I set everything back to flat at the PA and everything sounded great again.

[joel_brown]

Changing Input Z to something lower than Auto or 1m helps darken and thicken the tone.  I personally use 32k.  Also make sure Input1 is set to Guitar and Input2 is set to Variax or something other than Guitar.

[sinistralx]

Any thoughts on putting one of these between the POD and the PA?

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/art-pro-vla-ii-tube-compressor#productDetail