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Why no "10 Snapshots" mode?


zooey
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I've been trying to figure out how to integrate snapshots into my current flow, and so far, I'm afraid I might not be able to make good use of them without sacrificing functionality I currently have without them.

 

Please excuse if these are dumb questions that'd be easily answered by experimenting. I haven't had much Helix time since I (finally) got the upgrade to run, so I haven't actually played with any of this yet. I did look at the release notes and the global settings, and understanding of they work is based on what those seemed to imply.

 

 

My pre-2.0 life is in 10 Switches mode. Bottom row often has 4 drive levels (really 5 including all switches off), plus a generic volume boost. Top row has FX, say Compression, Tremolo, Chorus, Delay, and some wildcard.

 

The drive levels in that setup are awkward in that you have to shut one off and turn another on -- snapshots would be perfect for that, pointing me towards one of the half snaps and half stomps modes.

 

Two problems:

 

- As I understand it, there's no 10 Switches mode with snapshots. Am I right about that? Max 4 snaps and 4 stomps available? Seems like an unfortunate omission.

 

- To do what I currently do in 10 Switches mode, the bottom row should really be 4 snapshots plus a Boost switch, which does parameter changes only. Is there any way for a snapshot to NOT store which blocks are enabled and disabled, so it affects only parameters?

   Alternatively, it'd be cool if there was another global footswitch mode where you could freely mix snapshot and "normal" footswitches. You'd choose which action you wanted independently for each button, rather than the fixed layouts we have today. I get that the UI for that might be tricky, needs some thought

 

 

Blue-sky imaginings aside, am I missing something about how snapshots currently work, or how to use them? Any other thoughts?

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- As I understand it, there's no 10 Switches mode with snapshots. Am I right about that? Max 4 snaps and 4 stomps available? Seems like an unfortunate omission.

 

- To do what I currently do in 10 Switches mode, the bottom row should really be 4 snapshots plus a Boost switch, which does parameter changes only. Is there any way for a snapshot to NOT store which blocks are enabled and disabled, so it affects only parameters?

   Alternatively, it'd be cool if there was another global footswitch mode where you could freely mix snapshot and "normal" footswitches. You'd choose which action you wanted independently for each button, rather than the fixed layouts we have today. I get that the UI for that might be tricky, needs some thought

 

You can set your Helix up to have 8 snapshots available, or 4 snapshots and 4 switches. If you set "Snapshot edit" in the Global Settings-Preferences to "discard", you can use the 4 switches without them being automatically saved to a snapshot.

 

Hope that helps

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...... Is there any way for a snapshot to NOT store which blocks are enabled and disabled, so it affects only parameters?

 ......

 

A snapshot always stores the on/off state of each block. But there's nothing preventing you from keeping all the block states the same in all snapshots. Then the snapshot will affect only the parameters.

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...

- As I understand it, there's no 10 Switches mode with snapshots. Am I right about that? Max 4 snaps and 4 stomps available? Seems like an unfortunate omission.

 

....

 

I have Global Settings - Footswitches as follows:

- Preset Mode Switches: 8 snapshots

- Stomp Mode switches: 10 switches

- Up/Down Switches: doesn't really matter - select Banks or Presets

 

My display shows 10 footswitches. When I want to change to a different tone I hit the Mode switch and then the display shows the Up/Down buttons to allow me to switch to a different Bank/Preset as determined by the above Up/Down Switches setting. Having selected a new preset the display reverts back to showing the 8 snapshots available in that preset, allowing you to select your desired snapshot. Hitting Mode again displays the 10 footswitches.

 

Is that what you're looking for?

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I've been trying to figure out how to integrate snapshots into my current flow, and so far, I'm afraid I might not be able to make good use of them without sacrificing functionality I currently have without them.

 

Please excuse if these are dumb questions that'd be easily answered by experimenting. I haven't had much Helix time since I (finally) got the upgrade to run, so I haven't actually played with any of this yet. I did look at the release notes and the global settings, and understanding of they work is based on what those seemed to imply.

 

 

My pre-2.0 life is in 10 Switches mode. Bottom row often has 4 drive levels (really 5 including all switches off), plus a generic volume boost. Top row has FX, say Compression, Tremolo, Chorus, Delay, and some wildcard.

 

The drive levels in that setup are awkward in that you have to shut one off and turn another on -- snapshots would be perfect for that, pointing me towards one of the half snaps and half stomps modes.

 

Two problems:

 

- As I understand it, there's no 10 Switches mode with snapshots. Am I right about that? Max 4 snaps and 4 stomps available? Seems like an unfortunate omission.

 

- To do what I currently do in 10 Switches mode, the bottom row should really be 4 snapshots plus a Boost switch, which does parameter changes only. Is there any way for a snapshot to NOT store which blocks are enabled and disabled, so it affects only parameters?

   Alternatively, it'd be cool if there was another global footswitch mode where you could freely mix snapshot and "normal" footswitches. You'd choose which action you wanted independently for each button, rather than the fixed layouts we have today. I get that the UI for that might be tricky, needs some thought

 

 

Blue-sky imaginings aside, am I missing something about how snapshots currently work, or how to use them? Any other thoughts?

 

I agree that it would be better (for me!) to have the Snapshot capability alongside the stomps on the 10 stomp page.  

 

Did you see DI's hack for this??  If you connect a MIDI cable between Helix's MIDI out and MIDI in, then you can set up a MIDI cc to trigger a Snapshot from a Stomp footswitch - so yes you can make "10 Snapshots" from Stomp mode - unless you need to send Helix's MIDI elsewhere like I do :(

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You can set your Helix up to have 8 snapshots available, or 4 snapshots and 4 switches. If you set "Snapshot edit" in the Global Settings-Preferences to "discard", you can use the 4 switches without them being automatically saved to a snapshot.

 

Hope that helps

 

Ahh. I hadn't sussed out what the "Snapshot edit" setting was for... so really the "discard" mode is actually more like a "performance" mode where you can play around within your snapshots without changing them.  Whereas the other mode is more for building the Snapshots in the first place.

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A snapshot always stores the on/off state of each block. But there's nothing preventing you from keeping all the block states the same in all snapshots. Then the snapshot will affect only the parameters.

 

Hmmm.. I'd imagined we'd be able to decide which things we wanted to store in the Snapshot...

 

It will probably work ok the way it is.. I hope so! Not really had a good chance to program in any presets yet.. been too busy at work.

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Hmmm.. I'd imagined we'd be able to decide which things we wanted to store in the Snapshot...

 

....

You can. There are two things that can't be changed in Snapshots:

- the set of amps and FX. All amps and FX appear in all snapshots within a preset. If you want a different set of amps and FX you need to use a different preset.

- there is a limit of 64 changeable parameters per snapshot.

 

Note that this design allows plenty of flexibility. You can assign amps and FX in both paths to the DSP limit of the device, then turn each one on/off as desired in the individual snapshots. And 64 parameters is an awful lot!!

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I have Global Settings - Footswitches as follows:

- Preset Mode Switches: 8 snapshots

- Stomp Mode switches: 10 switches

- Up/Down Switches: doesn't really matter - select Banks or Presets

 

My display shows 10 footswitches. When I want to change to a different tone I hit the Mode switch and then the display shows the Up/Down buttons to allow me to switch to a different Bank/Preset as determined by the above Up/Down Switches setting. Having selected a new preset the display reverts back to showing the 8 snapshots available in that preset, allowing you to select your desired snapshot. Hitting Mode again displays the 10 footswitches.

 

Is that what you're looking for?

What was thinking I'd like is 5 Stomps in the top row, and 5 snapshots in the bottom row, and when you hit the Mode switch you see presets. There isn't any way to do that, right? Max is 4 Stomps and 4 Snapshots? That's what I meant by the (poor) title of this thread.

 

(Even more ideally, I'd like 4 snapshots and one stomp in the bottom row for generic Boost, but I realize the only to get what with the current firmware is with a loopback cable, like DI suggested.)

 

Can you be a little more specific about what your settings give you? You see 10 switches, but what's on them? Stomps? What do you see when you hit the mode switch? 8 snapshots, plus Up and Down buttons, which when you hit one changes the 8 switches to showing the 8 presets in that bank? And when you choose a preset, you see its 8 snapshots, and hitting Mode again shows 10 stomps again?

 

That's probably not right, I'm just not clear on how switching between presets, snaps, and stomps actually works.

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There are two things that can't be changed in Snapshots:

- the set of amps and FX. All amps and FX appear in all snapshots within a preset. If you want a different set of amps and FX you need to use a different preset.

Every snapshot always include on and off settings for every block, right? That's what keeps you from using one footswitch in snapshot mode as a volume boost. My boost switch typically just turns up the level of the final output block, but you could do the same thing by enabling and disabling a gain block, or any other block with added gain.

 

But if snapshot switches always store every block's on/off state, it can't ONLY be a gain boost that works regardless of what else is on and off.

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  • 1 year later...

Every snapshot always include on and off settings for every block, right? That's what keeps you from using one footswitch in snapshot mode as a volume boost. My boost switch typically just turns up the level of the final output block, but you could do the same thing by enabling and disabling a gain block, or any other block with added gain.

 

But if snapshot switches always store every block's on/off state, it can't ONLY be a gain boost that works regardless of what else is on and off.

Why wouldn't you be able to have a snapshot only be a gain boost? Many of my presets have this setup, unless i am not understanding you properly.

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Did you see DI's hack for this??  If you connect a MIDI cable between Helix's MIDI out and MIDI in, then you can set up a MIDI cc to trigger a Snapshot from a Stomp footswitch - so yes you can make "10 Snapshots" from Stomp mode - unless you need to send Helix's MIDI elsewhere like I do :(

 

 

I have an IdeaScale submission that might help: https://line6.ideascale.com/a/idea-v2/903037

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Every snapshot always include on and off settings for every block, right? That's what keeps you from using one footswitch in snapshot mode as a volume boost. My boost switch typically just turns up the level of the final output block, but you could do the same thing by enabling and disabling a gain block, or any other block with added gain.

 

But if snapshot switches always store every block's on/off state, it can't ONLY be a gain boost that works regardless of what else is on and off.

 

It's my understanding that snapshots only control what you tell them to control. 

 

Make sure snapshots are in "discard" mode so they "forget" changes you make as you switch between them and come back in the configuration you saved the snapshot with.

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You can get some of the extra functionality you desire by using a top end MIDI controller.  For instance, using an RJM product, you could have a bottom row that had 4 snapshots and 2 switches, while on the next row you had 4 switches and 2 snapshots.  Finally on the top row, you could have bank up / down buttons and a button to bring up a whole new page, kinda like the Mode button on the Helix.  The downside is that it will take $$ and time to learn to program it. 

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