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Smashcraaft

JTV-59 intonation problem - Bad Bridge placement.

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The longer and deeper I get in, trying to do the perfect setup for my JTV-59 the harder I feel that the bridge is not placed well by the factory or specs.

 

If I try to setup the intonation well, I have to place the string-adjustment-sliders on the bridge (don't no the proper term for ist in English) back, at the very end, both on low E and A. There is no way to screw them more backwards so I am very glad, that this is the point, where intonation is okay but not perfect.

 

I am in contact with some other players of the JTV59 and they can confirm my guesses.

Besides there are some images of the 59er bridge in the web, witch indicates the same problem.

Of cause there are other images where the adjustment-sliders are shown the right way but I am pretty sure not everyone is even testing the intonation.

 

But here is also an older thread on this topic without any statement of L6

http://line6.com/support/topic/3630-jtv-59-intonation-problem-with-9s/?hl=jtv-59+intonation

 

String gauges I tried...

9-46

10-46

10-52

 

I even tried to proof the intonation using a capo and measuring the 13. fret.

Also the tiny screws at the bridge are adjusted as long as possible, without loosing the possibility to adjust the height of the bridge by covering this screws.

 

I would like to ask psarkissian if this is a known "issue" (you don't have to call it an issue as I am sure you are not allowed) so I can stop my search for the holy grail of intonation. Otherwise I like to ask for further advices getting the bridge adjusted the right way.

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I have a JTV59 and when I set the intonation on mine, I found I was quickly at the end of the extent of movement for the low E saddle.  So I had to move the entire bridge backwards using the tiny screws that allow it to slide backwards on the mounts, and I found that it soon started covering the large screws used for height adjustment. In other words, the slot through which you access the height adjustment screws was moving backwards and the screws started to get obscured by the bridge.

 

I think the easiest solution in these cases is to set the string height (action) first - then once happy with that you set the intonation - if you can't move the saddles back far enough to get the correct intonation then you have no choice but to move the entrie bridge back so it starts to cover the height adjustment screws.  This should not be a problem because you have set your desired string height already.

 

Obviously, if you wish to change string height after setting intonation, then you will have to slide bridge forward again to access the height adjustment screws.

 

Hope that helps.

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I have a JTV59 and when I set the intonation on mine, I found I was quickly at the end of the extent of movement for the low E saddle.  So I had to move the entire bridge backwards using the tiny screws that allow it to slide backwards on the mounts, and I found that it soon started covering the large screws used for height adjustment. In other words, the slot through which you access the height adjustment screws was moving backwards and the screws started to get obscured by the bridge.

Thank you. That does help me to understand that my Axe ist not manufactured inproper and you are another user on my list.

Would you agree with me, that the bridge should be reset to 5-8 mm, as specifiction for the factory?

 

I wonder, why Line 6 have released a bridge with such a inflexible position? Positioning a bridge shouldn't be wizardry or toss for it  :blink:  :ph34r:

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Thank you. That does help me to understand that my Axe ist not manufactured inproper and you are another user on my list.

Would you agree with me, that the bridge should be reset to 5-8 mm, as specifiction for the factory?

 

I wonder, why Line 6 have released a bridge with such a inflexible position? Positioning a bridge shouldn't be wizardry or toss for it  :blink:  :ph34r:

 

I can't speak for every JTV59.  But for my JTV59, I think if the bridge height screws were both 5mm further back, then the slots in the bridge to access the height screws would be more centrally aligned allowing more backwards and forwards movement for the whole bridge. That in turn would allow the string saddles to be moved further back if necessary - although it may prevent them from being moved as far forward as required if somebody prefers to set higher action.

 

The fact that the entire bridge can be moved forward or backward should provide the necessary flexibility to get the string saddles in the perfect positions for intonation even if it does mean that the bridge itself will obscure and possibly prevent access to the bridge height screws.  But as I mentioned above - if you set the height first and then move the bridge backwards/forwards and adjust saddles then you should be ok.  I know that is not perfect but it should be a workable solution. 

 

Obviously, if the entire bridge is moved to the furthest extend backwards, and the string saddle still hits the back of the bridge and the intonation is still not correct because it requires the saddle to be moved further back then I would say that there is a manufacturing fault and the guitar should be returned as faulty.

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Sometimes it is answer enough to see psarkissian not jump into a JTV discussion ;)

It seems very clear to me that the bridge position is not optimal.

 

But anyway... intonation is nearby okay withe the E, A, D saddles pushed hard against the very back of the bridge.

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Have you tried moving the bridge further back so that it covers the bridge height screws? In other words, the access slots are further back so you can't adjust the height screws with the allen key?  With the bridge further back like this, you can then hopefully adjust the saddles of the E, A and D to optimal positions.

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Hi edstar. I am aware of this possibility but at the moment I am still trying to setup the neck perfectly and so I am using the screws for the bridge-height from time to time. After that I will give it a try (ignoring my sad feelings about pushing the bridge as far backwards by such tiny little screws).

 

But I like to thank you for your patience with me :)

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Here is a new thread where I try to find out about differences in specs and production over the years. 

I am really sure there are differences in fret-size and neck-scale but the problems with the room to move the bridge-saddles seems to occur all over.

 

F.e. a friend of mine with a W1108 tries to compensate the observed fault in 1. fret placement by milling the nut, now.

 

It is very interesting, that frets are not placed as they mathematicaly should be and the bridge placement is bordered, too.

I would love to find out if other JTV-59s do have the same or deviating fret and scale values.

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Any luthier worth his salt should be able to help you measure the frets on the neck and calculate the correct bridge placement.  It's all just math.

(Not being a luthier, I don't know the math myself, but I'm sure it's easily searchable)

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Any luthier worth his salt should be able to help you measure the frets on the neck and calculate the correct bridge placement.  It's all just math.

(Not being a luthier, I don't know the math myself, but I'm sure it's easily searchable)

Maybe I did not express myself right: I know the right values because of a calculation sheet but it seems, that the korean factory of Line 6 do not know their stuff (or L6 their specs).

It's my intention to compare the values to find about if it differs from guitar to guitar or just bulk to bulk. More on this in this thread… 

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I had the issue on a used Variax 600 a few years. I moved the neck a few millimeters upwards I still had to shorten the spring for the deep E string to be able to move it even further back into an acceptable position.
Now, a few years later, I bought a new Variax Standard and just expected it to not have that issue. But it does. I thought something was a manufacturing issue, so I sent it back. But apparently the scale length is in spec and doesn't differ from other Variax Standard guitars.
I'm not willing to heavily modify my new guitar just to be able to get the intonation right.

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" I would like to ask psarkissian if this is a known "issue" (you don't have to call it an issue as I am sure you are not allowed)

so I can stop my search for the holy grail of intonation. " ---  @ Smashcraaft,... Sorry for being so late, somehow missed this one, just spotted this post.

Best as I recall there was a small number of early 59's. Machine creep or measuring a wrong reference point (I forget which), so the fret board fret placement was

off just enough that it was outside of the intonation range. I dealt with all of those. Also changed to a longer coarse intonation screw to accommodate that.

Your 59's are after that, so would be correct.

 

 

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13 hours ago, psarkissian said:

I dealt with all of those. Also changed to a longer coarse intonation screw to accommodate that.

Your 59's are after that, so would be correct.

 

I have one correct and on one incorrect model (W14050061, W14050023). Could you please provide a pair (or two) of the longer coarse intonation screw via mail?
Otherwise please give me the exact specs of those in an EU measure (non inch).

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Hmmm,... those numbers would be way outside the number range of the afore mentioned early units.

Don't know if the fret slots are sawed by hand or machine.

 

Diameter = 4-40, conic point

Thread = 3/16" (4.6mm) UNC thread spec

Length = 6.35mm

Hex Head = 1.27mm, my tool is a H1.3 Hex Tip

 

Since we sell worldwide, most of our specs are in metric. Though a number of the one sheet brochures display in inches.

 

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On 9/23/2020 at 7:17 PM, psarkissian said:

Since we sell worldwide, most of our specs are in metric. Though a number of the one sheet brochures display in inches.

 

@psarkissian can you please verify the attached specs?
I can only buy them in bulk, so I try to prevent hundred of wrong screws.

Madenschraube-Specs_100dpi.pdf

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Specs I listed were taken from the specs and caliper measurements I made.

 

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1 hour ago, psarkissian said:

Specs I listed were taken from the specs and caliper measurements I made.

Pardon?! Once again: Can you please verify the attached specs?

I can only buy them in bulk, so I try to prevent hundred of wrong screws.

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@psarkissian come on, please? Can you please verify the attached specs now?

From my POV it's not an overdrawn request when it comes to an instrument which costs about 1.000$ and has a production-fault.

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I don't recognize any of the highlighted numbers there as being something that matches the specs. 

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On 10/8/2020 at 6:07 PM, psarkissian said:

I don't recognize any of the highlighted numbers there as being something that matches the specs. 


Might be because my specialist for foreign screws informed me about differing statements in your specification:

Quote

 

Your statement / answer of my specialist
Diameter = 4-40, conic point / This is a thread specification for #40-40 UNC threads = approx. 2.8558 mm and 40 turns on 1 inch

Thread = 3/16" (4.6mm) UNC thread spec / This is a thread specification for # 10 24-UNC threads = approx. 4.6mm and 24 turns on 1 inch

Length = 6.35mm = ¼”

Hex Head = 1.27mm, my tool is a H1.3 Hex Tip / This specification would match the # 4-40 screw


First of all, the thread must be clarified, as there are contradicting specifications.

 


So please clarify the the unclear thread.

* I try to keep it as clear as possible but still asking myself if it wouln'd be much easier to send me a pair of fitting screws by airmail even if you and charge me for that?!

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"... send me a pair of fitting screws by airmail even if you and charge me for that? " --- You would have to log a support ticket that.

If they are okay with that , then I'm okay with that. Our Support partners in Germany would be a more direct source for that hardware.

Log a Support ticket, they can take care of it, they are closer to you.

 

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On 10/12/2020 at 11:01 PM, psarkissian said:

"... send me a pair of fitting screws by airmail even if you and charge me for that? " --- You would have to log a support ticket that.

If they are okay with that , then I'm okay with that. Our Support partners in Germany would be a more direct source for that hardware.

Log a Support ticket, they can take care of it, they are closer to you.

 

I have opened a support-ticket now

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Just read it. Sehr gut mein freund.

 

Also mention that it's for the two bridge intonation screws and not the six piezo intonation screws.

 

 

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