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rychester63

FRFR Decision

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I'm looking at the Yamaha DXR series and was wondering if anyone has experience with these and the sonic difference between using the 10" compared to the 12" . I would tend to believe you would get a little better bass response from the 12".

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I personally use the DXR12.  A lot of folks however are happy with the DXR10.  My decision for the 12 was simply the fact that I've always been happier with cabinets that use 12's rather than 10.  I suspect it's the fact that I prefer a bit warmer tones.

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I have no personal experience but hear excellent things about them and I want one. I'd get a 10 because I have an alto 12 and it's a little Overkill

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The Yammie DXRs are really popular with the folks on the Kemper forum.  People use both the tens and the twelves, but overall I think more run the tens.  Remember, these aren't guitar cabinets, so the usual thinking for speakers in a traditional guitar rig doesn't apply.  Tens have PLENTY of punch and low end to them in a FRFR when you're only using them for a guitar (their frequency response runs lower than most 12" guitar speakers).

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I went with a pair of DXR10. They are smaller, lighter, and less costly than the DXR12. Two DXR10 sound significantly bigger and fuller than a single DXR12.

 

I wanted two DXR10, for a very full and wide sound field regardless if run as dual mono, stereo, or Wet-Dry-Wet (flanking my combo amp). I use them horizontally as wedges, standing vertically as backline, and sometimes as reference monitors. Not for PA.

 

Compared directly vs. the DXR12 (regardless if one vs. one or two vs. two) the DXR12's lower range bottom end is slightly noticable when listening to pre-recorded material with signifcant bottom end content. In this scenario, the DXR12 had a slight advantage. For any sort of DJ type use (I don't have that need), or for motion picture sound reinforcement you would almost certainly want to run a Sub, thus narrowing the difference between the DXR12 and DXR10 even more.

 

For 6 string electric guitar, the the DXR10 and DXR12 sound remarkably similar. I have several Les Pauls (one a partially hollow Les Paul Florentine), a custom Strat, and a (335 style) Sheraton Pro-II. All sound great through the DXR10 and DXR12. If you'll be playing Bass, 7 String Guitar, Drop Tuning, playing Keys, or using them for PA or prerecorded content, the DXR12's lower end would be useful.

 

If the DXR Series' 3 channel mixer is not essential, consider the nearly identical sounding. lighter weight, lower cost DBR series. They are an excellent choice. Marco Fanton uses the DBR10. You can check out any of his many YouTube videos and patches. He also regularly posts to the Helix thread on TGP.

 

Hope this helps.

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Something worth considering is that in a two-way speaker system, the crossover is usually a bit lower in frequency when the bass driver is smaller larger (edited). The crossover frequency for these speakers is around 2kHz, so the big speaker is handling the mids and lower. The trebles, presence and warmth are being handled by the high frequency driver / horn. So you won't hear a difference in warmth between the DXR8/10/12/15. It may sound a bit different in the way it drives the mids around the crossover frequency, and of course how deep and strong the bass can get if you put full range music through it.

These systems are designed to be linear and I've always rolled off the lower frequencies for live guitar and vocals - considering that even the DXR8 can get all the way down to 57Hz (at -10dB), I don't see how there could be much difference between the difference size FRFRs if you're not putting full range instruments into them.

Also, smaller sized units usually have a wider dispersion, but the DXRs are all specced the same, so you don't have to worry about that.

In this case, portability is a worthy consideration when choosing which one to get.

 

(edit: fixed incorrect statement above)

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Something worth considering is that in a two-way speaker system, the crossover is usually a bit lower in frequency when the bass driver is smaller. The crossover frequency for these speakers is around 2kHz, so the big speaker is handling the mids and lower. The trebles, presence and warmth are being handled by the high frequency driver / horn. So you won't hear a difference in warmth between the DXR8/10/12/15. It may sound a bit different in the way it drives the mids around the crossover frequency, and of course how deep and strong the bass can get if you put full range music through it.

These systems are designed to be linear and I've always rolled off the lower frequencies for live guitar and vocals - considering that even the DXR8 can get all the way down to 57Hz (at -10dB), I don't see how there could be much difference between the difference size FRFRs if you're not putting full range instruments into them.

Also, smaller sized units usually have a wider dispersion, but the DXRs are all specced the same, so you don't have to worry about that.

In this case, portability is a worthy consideration when choosing which one to get.

 

Just to clarify some of what you're saying.  Specifically the DXR10 crosses over to the compression driver at 2.3khz and the DXR12 crosses over at 2.1khz which seems to be at odds with your statement regarding the smaller bass having a lower frequency crossover.  I'm not sure it's really distinguishable as they use the same frequency response profile chart for all the DXR speakers.

 

To be specific in terms of weight if it's a consideration, there's roughly ten pounds of difference between the DXR10 and 12.  32.2 versus 42.5 lbs.

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If you are a guy who finds himself playing through a certain kind of PA most or all of the time, I think it's best to get a wedge that sounds the most like that, made usually by that company. So, if your band uses a pair of K12s and a Sub, go QSC... etc...

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Just to clarify some of what you're saying.  Specifically the DXR10 crosses over to the compression driver at 2.3khz and the DXR12 crosses over at 2.1khz which seems to be at odds with your statement regarding the smaller bass having a lower frequency crossover.  I'm not sure it's really distinguishable as they use the same frequency response profile chart for all the DXR speakers.

 

To be specific in terms of weight if it's a consideration, there's roughly ten pounds of difference between the DXR10 and 12.  32.2 versus 42.5 lbs.

 

 

Oops, I re-read my first line and you're right. I meant to say the cross-over frequency is lower when the bass driver is bigger. As the cone area grows, the directionality of a given frequency tightens. So larger speakers need to cross over at lower frequencies to compensate for this effect to maintain relatively uniform dispersion over the speakers nominal bandwidth.

 

Without a cross over you end up with the problem that (non-FRFR) single driver 12" guitar speakers have where the trebles 'beam' and people like to stand off to the side to compensate. That guitar speaker may even have a perfectly flat frequency response over it's speaking bandwidth (50Hz to 5kHz) on-axis, while the dispersion is very non-uniform and muddy off to the side. If the flat response is off axis, then the on-axis response will have enhanced treble and presence. 15" speakers are worse for this. That's why FRFRs always have multiple speaking elements once the size gets beyond a few inches.  

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If you are a guy who finds himself playing through a certain kind of PA most or all of the time, I think it's best to get a wedge that sounds the most like that, made usually by that company. So, if your band uses a pair of K12s and a Sub, go QSC... etc...

We use a top of the line passive JBL system, but have not heard encouraging words about JBL monitors.So I'm kinda stuck. I just want to leave the FRFR at home for creating tones and will use the systems monitors live. The monitors we use live are huge JBL passive fronts ( 15 and horn ). We use them as cross stage cause we all run direct.

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We use a top of the line passive JBL system, but have not heard encouraging words about JBL monitors.So I'm kinda stuck. I just want to leave the FRFR at home for creating tones and will use the systems monitors live. The monitors we use live are huge JBL passive fronts ( 15 and horn ). We use them as cross stage cause we all run direct.

 

 

I don't know how similar they sound but I found that the previous version of these little JBL Eon monitors was FANTASTIC as an FRFR.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EON610

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I don't know how similar they sound but I found that the previous version of these little JBL Eon monitors was FANTASTIC as an FRFR.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EON610

 

I've been using a set of JBL Eon 10 G2s for close to 12 years for monitoring (along with the occasional field trip for off site FOH duty). After over a decade, they're a bit bent and battered, but still sound as good as the day they were new. Not the loudest 10" powered speakers, but more than loud enough to deafen anyone standing next to them if they're turned up.

 

I recently had the chance to listen to the EON610s in a similar environment and they sound even better again. The off axis coverage has significantly improved compared to the older model, and they just sound more 'accurate' in the way that is expected of the current generation of DSP aligned powered speakers.

From their specs, they aren't quite as loud as the DXR10s or K10s, but for anyone that's not maxing out their speakers as FOH mains these new EONs bring a quality sound.

 

I was also impressed that the price is so reasonable.

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I have the Peavey PVX12p (x2), I read a ton of great reviews and decided to give them a shot to save some money.  I don't regret it one bit.  I don't have experience with other speakers for comparison but these things haven't let me down and they rock out.  Plus the name Peavey just sounds like rock n roll, compared to QSC or Yamaha... dump point I know.    

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I got a pair of Alesis Alpha 112s, the slightly premium version of the similar Alto's, new off eBay for a bit under $400 shipped, and I've seen them for even less. They're decent, and the price was good, but I wouldn't say they're the very most awesome.

 

I don't really gig these days, but the one jam-ish thing I did with them was in a pretty huge barn/show-riding space, only vocals and horns in the PA, and the 112s barely cut it, limiter lights on a fair amount of the time. They didn't sound messed up, just that was all there was. They're also a tad bright in the upper mids.

 

If I'd had the cash, I would have done DXR10s or DBR10s, but for what I paid, if that's an issue, I doubt you can do better.

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