amsdenj Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 I want to send a fixed output to FOH being fed by the XLR outputs and use the Volume Knob to control my stage monitor through the 1/4" outputs. If the "Volume Knob Controls" global setting is set to 1/4", then what is the volume output to the XLRs set at? Full volume? The value it had when the global setting was changed to 1/4"? Something else? I can try it and see at the next gig, but I'd like to know as much as possible before I get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 I believe that the XLR output setting in this case would be controlled by the level of the associated Output Block, with the default value of 0db (full/unity volume) applied unless you change it (per preset). As I understand things this setting (Output Block Level) would control the level sent to FOH via XLR and the Volume knob would adjust the 1/4" output level relative to the Output Block level for your FRFR stage monitor. .... but I'm not 100% sure of this....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsdenj Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 I tried it and yes, that seems to be how it works. When the Volume Knob Controls is set to 1/4", the XLR output is set as if the knob was set on Multi or XLR and turned all the way up. So the output block controls the output - or better yet, the input gain of the PA channel strip and the channel strip fader. This is just what I wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsdenj Posted May 17, 2017 Author Share Posted May 17, 2017 Note I meant to post this on the Helix forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 .... moved to Helix forum ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Funny you should bring this up because after a gig last Saturday I was wondering about exactly this. How could I set my Helix to control my stage monitor volume without affecting the FOH sound.? At least 2 or 3 times during the show I ended up having to go behind my powered stage monitor, which was in a less than easily accessible spot, to adjust the volume. Often I can just leave it at noon and it's all good but not always. I like the idea of just controlling the stage monitor from the Helix with the volume knob. Here is the problem I would have setting this up. If I set the large volume knob to only control the 1/4 output to the stage monitors many of my presets may be way too hot to run to the board at unity gain(0db). That is because those presets were set up a bit hot as I often use my expression pedal to control overall volume so I make sure the presets are loud with the toe all the way down. Maybe I could attenuate the Helix feed for the FOH sufficiently at the mixer. Just concerned I might have a lot of work ahead of me to go back and re-level my presets as well. I wish I could reassign the "Phones" volume knob to the 1/4 output and then just assign the large Volume knob to the XLR output. That would be perfect with the two knobs right next to each other; the Volume knob controlling the FOH and the Phones knob controlling my stage monitor(s). I never use the Helix's 'Phones' output on stage so being able to reassign the Phones knob to control the 1/4 output(s) would be very useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Funny you should bring this up because after a gig last Saturday I was wondering about exactly this. How could I set my Helix to control my stage monitor volume without affecting the FOH sound.? At least 2 or 3 times during the show I ended up having to go behind my powered stage monitor, which was in a less than easily accessible spot, to adjust the volume. Often I can just leave it at noon and it's all good but not always. I like the idea of just controlling the stage monitor from the Helix with the volume knob. Here is the problem I would have setting this up. If I set the large volume knob to only control the 1/4 output to the stage monitors many of my presets may be way too hot to run to the board at unity gain(0db). That is because those presets were set up a bit hot as I often use my expression pedal to control overall volume so I make sure the presets are loud with the toe all the way down. Maybe I could attenuate the Helix feed for the FOH sufficiently at the mixer. Just concerned I might have a lot of work ahead of me to go back and re-level my presets as well. I wish I could reassign the "Phones" volume knob to the 1/4 output and then just assign the large Volume knob to the XLR output. That would be perfect with the two knobs right next to each other; the Volume knob controlling the FOH and the Phones knob controlling my stage monitor(s). I never use the Helix's 'Phones' output on stage so being able to reassign the Phones knob to control the 1/4 output(s) would be very useful. This shouldn't be a problem. That's exactly what the gain or trim knob on a mixing board is for, and that's exactly what sound checks are supposed to accomplish which is to gain stage the input signal. That's assuming, of course, that you're dealing with a competent and trained person running the PA. Just make sure during sound checks and gain staging that you send the FOH guy the loudest signal you'll be sending by maxing out the foot pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I tried it and yes, that seems to be how it works. When the Volume Knob Controls is set to 1/4", the XLR output is set as if the knob was set on Multi or XLR and turned all the way up. So the output block controls the output - or better yet, the input gain of the PA channel strip and the channel strip fader. This is just what I wanted. So if I'm reading this correctly, if the volume knob control is set to 1/4" then you can still control the level of output of the XLR to the mixer by changing the level on the output block? If so, that also affects the output of the 1/4" to your stage monitor, but that can be compensated for by the volume knob. Correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHamm Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 If the "Volume Knob Controls" global setting is set to 1/4", then what is the volume output to the XLRs set at? Full volume? yes, full volume. I do something similar. Other way around because I like sending a signal from a DI to the board and the XLR to my on-stage monitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 So if I'm reading this correctly, if the volume knob control is set to 1/4" then you can still control the level of output of the XLR to the mixer by changing the level on the output block? If so, that also affects the output of the 1/4" to your stage monitor, but that can be compensated for by the volume knob. Correct? Yes. Typically the Output block level adjustments would be made in advance of any live playing/gigging as part of the overall preset level balancing process. Since this adjustment is made on a preset basis you want to avoid having to adjust both the Output block and then compensating with the master volume knob while playing live. Best practice is to set other volume parameters (e.g. Channel Volume) so that you can leave the Output block level at 0db as much as possible, compensating for overly quiet/loud presets by adjusting the Output block level as required. This will provide a good and consistent signal level to the FOH, where the sound guy can adjust input trim and channel level as desired during sound check. With the overall volume stable you can use the master volume knob set to 1/4" to control your monitor level - ideally once during sound check. If you need to make adjustments to your stage monitor during your performance you can use the master volume knob without affecting FOH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I agree in theory you want to be sending a consistent signal level to the soundman and the FOH, makes their lives infinitely easier and it is ideal. I try to level all my patches up but without being meticulous about it sooner or later I end up with presets or snapshots that require on the fly unanticipated volume adjustment. I try to save them at the corrected volume when they crop up but I still rarely do a show where I don't find myself working the large volume or expression pedal on some preset/snapshot change too keep the volume consistent or appropriate. As you know depending on the venue and the volume level of the PA some presets can all of a sudden sound too quiet or a bit too loud depending on how things have changed since your last performance. Just trying to say that there are variables from show to show including flat out oversights or miscalculations on your preset/snapshot level and it is nice to have a quick way to adjust volume from the Helix for both the FOH and the stage monitors. This is particularly true when you are doing a show where the band is running its own sound from the stage and there is no dedicated soundman available to quickly reach over and adjust your guitar level on the board . Ultimately I like the idea of being able to adjust my monitor volume from the Helix and also having a relatively "fixed" level going to the FOH, but one that can be adjusted quickly from the Helix where necessary. I think some metering would be very useful on the Helix and an output level meter would be particularly helpful. I also like the idea of being able to rededicate the Phones knob to control the XLR or 1/4 output level such that there is one knob for FOH and one for stage monitors. I don't know if the physical capability is there on the Helix but they did it with the large volume knob, so maybe it is possible with a firmware upgrade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I don't know if this will help or you already know this but the global EQ has an overall volume slider at the top. I like to run my XLR's at mic level so any sound guy would get the same thing as if it was a mic on an amp. However, since dedicating the 1/4" (for monitoring) to the Volume knob makes the XLR's run as if the Volume knob is up full, I either have to run my patches with a minuscule Channel Level or run the Golbal EQ with a lowered overall level. Right now I run my global EQ at about -13dB to -14dB which then allows me to run my patches at a 2.0-4.0 Channel Level. I still don't like it but that's where I'm at. I'm hoping eventually we will be able to set the level of the output not controlled by the master volume knob, in the software. As another Global parameter perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I don't know if this will help or you already know this but the global EQ has an overall volume slider at the top. I like to run my XLR's at mic level so any sound guy would get the same thing as if it was a mic on an amp. However, since dedicating the 1/4" (for monitoring) to the Volume knob makes the XLR's run as if the Volume knob is up full, I either have to run my patches with a minuscule Channel Level or run the Golbal EQ with a lowered overall level. Right now I run my global EQ at about -13dB to -14dB which then allows me to run my patches at a 2.0-4.0 Channel Level. I still don't like it but that's where I'm at. I'm hoping eventually we will be able to set the level of the output not controlled by the master volume knob, in the software. As another Global parameter perhaps. Nice writeup on using the Global EQ, very useful details, thanks. This concept of using the Global EQ occurred to me as well but I decided that I still ultimately prefer having a physical knob I can reach down to quickly without having to invoke the global EQ first. I may adopt your approach however until a better solution presents itself. I suppose you always have the option of having the Amp or the Output block dialed up as the default screen in each preset/snapshot such that you can quickly reach down and adjust the "Ch Vol" or Output level quickly but sometimes you would have to work this in tandem with whatever (FOH or monitor) is assigned to the large Volume knob. Not quite as easy as being able to adjust a single dedicated knob with a choice between one assigned to the FOH and one to monitors without having to worry about what screen you are on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicLaw Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Although not summed to Mono (unless you do so in the signal path before the output Block), the Headphones TRS 1/4" jack and the headphone volume knob could be used to feed 1/4" Monitors on Stage. Another method would be to Split the signal path and define one of the Output Blocks for 1/4" Output and the other for XLR. Depending on how you configure the Main Volume knob in Global Settings, the output that would be defaulting to Unity (i.e. not affected by the Main Volume knob) could be configured for footswitch activation of the expression pedal to adjust your FOH or stage monitors if occassionally needed. Helix provides lots of options! I do like the idea of the Headphones Knob being reconfigurable as suggested in an earlier post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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