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jonathanreid101

Line 6 Helix Crashing Windows 10

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Every time I plug in my Helix, i get BSOD. I followed every trouble shooting step I've seen here and when I called, support had no alternatives to give other than the conclusion that the motherboard was not able to support the device. I called ASUS and they gave me a handful of additional troubleshooting steps that were unsuccessful and it ended, after being escalated 3x, with a "Sorry, that device just isn't compatible."  I can plug in all my other midi devices. We tried changing legacy USB settings in Bios. Fiddled with the drivers 900 times (uninstalling, installing one at a time etc.)

mobo: ROG Strix Z370E Gaming

Midi: Line 6 Helix

 

I'm very frustrated as this issue has been going on for ~20 days and I was hoping to use my Helix as my primary source of tones while getting used to my new DAW to force myself to use it more and become more comfortable. For context, I switched to PC after being a 10ish year mac guy because editing in 4k and multitracking was becoming a nightmare on my imac pro and I have a background in IT using windows devices. 

 

Many thanks, 

J

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With a background in IT I'm going to assume that one of the troubleshooting steps you took was to run a heavy duty stress testing suite that stressed every part of the system for a couple of days and got no errors or overheating problems. You've also wiped the drive and reinstalled Win10.

 

That done, with L6 support and the MB mfr telling you that there's nothing wrong with your system, my suggestion would be to sell it and get a regular, run of the mill i7 MB like everybody else uses - not a special cutting edge Star Trek gaming board.

 

I know, goes against everything you believe in, and makes no logical sense to me either (also former IT guy), but just maybe, in this case, old school is better? At this point, whadda ya got to lose?

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You are not going to like this, but I just seemed to focus on one word in that post.

“Gaming!”

Sorry, I don’t play games - I play guitar.

 

One serious suggestion though, revert to Mac for music, use a PC for games.

Yes! I’m biased.

 

Plus you also had the response, “Sorry, that device just isn’t compatible”.

Sort of says it all, really.

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I have one of my Helix floor units connected to an ASUS G73S gaming laptop which I use for video editing with no problems at all on Windows 10.  So tell the ASUS support people the ball is in their court.  Mine works just fine with the Helix.  Personally I'd suggest you make sure you have no other additional peripherals or controllers attached just to make sure there's not a device level conflict.  The only thing attached to mine is a USB mouse and the Helix.

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13 hours ago, rd2rk said:

With a background in IT I'm going to assume that one of the troubleshooting steps you took was to run a heavy duty stress testing suite that stressed every part of the system for a couple of days and got no errors or overheating problems. You've also wiped the drive and reinstalled Win10.

 

That done, with L6 support and the MB mfr telling you that there's nothing wrong with your system, my suggestion would be to sell it and get a regular, run of the mill i7 MB like everybody else uses - not a special cutting edge Star Trek gaming board.

 

I know, goes against everything you believe in, and makes no logical sense to me either (also former IT guy), but just maybe, in this case, old school is better? At this point, whadda ya got to lose?

Yes, I did. 

 

I understand your standpoint, but I JUST built this PC. I am not going to strip it and sell it because of a driver issue. I didnt post this question for alternative options, I was asking for knowledge and experience for work arounds or resolutions. In your own words, a "special cutting edge" board should have Zero difficulty with this minute task. 

 

I don't disagree that old school can be better, for sure. But that's not a journey I'm on at the moment. 

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11 hours ago, datacommando said:

You are not going to like this, but I just seemed to focus on one word in that post.

“Gaming!”

Sorry, I don’t play games - I play guitar.

 

 

Wicked cool man. 

 

"One serious suggestion though, revert to Mac for music, use a PC for games.

Yes! I’m biased."

 

I'm not interested in suggestions. I'm looking for troubleshooting support on my current device. I already made the jump from Mac to PC and I posted here for troubleshooting assistance. You do you, though. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, DunedinDragon said:

I have one of my Helix floor units connected to an ASUS G73S gaming laptop which I use for video editing with no problems at all on Windows 10.  So tell the ASUS support people the ball is in their court.  Mine works just fine with the Helix.  Personally I'd suggest you make sure you have no other additional peripherals or controllers attached just to make sure there's not a device level conflict.  The only thing attached to mine is a USB mouse and the Helix.

 

Thanks, that's insightful. I think I'll do another fresh install of Win10 and ONLY plug in the helix just to see what happens then. It's bizarre that it only happens with the helix. I have my Nektar, UAD Apollo, and a few other devices plugged in at random and have Zero issue with those. It really does appear to be an ASUS issue. Their most recent update to our open support ticket was "Well, here's a list of our supported devices" ..... I think I'll try and get someone on the phone again. 

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1 hour ago, jonathanreid101 said:

Yes, I did. 

 

I understand your standpoint, but I JUST built this PC. I am not going to strip it and sell it because of a driver issue. I didnt post this question for alternative options, I was asking for knowledge and experience for work arounds or resolutions. In your own words, a "special cutting edge" board should have Zero difficulty with this minute task. 

 

I don't disagree that old school can be better, for sure. But that's not a journey I'm on at the moment. 

 

With due respect, my first paragraph addressed "knowledge and experience", and you didn't address either. DID you run those tests? I see that you've decided to reinstall windows, Hopefully that will work. If not, run the stress tests. Even a new MB can have issues, and memory/CPU/GPU glitches are really hard to track down. Failing that, if a clean install with NO other drivers/devices present doesn't get it, then you're stuck in one of my favorite support loops - the driver support folks blame the MB, the MB support folks blame the driver, and your insistence that it's one or the other matters not a whit to either! My suggestion to try a basic MB was based on my feelings that my time is worth a lot - I'd rather be playing music than troubleshooting computer problems!

 

Sorry, I missed the "Yes I did" line. The rest still applies.

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2 hours ago, jonathanreid101 said:

It really does appear to be an ASUS issue. Their most recent update to our open support ticket was "Well, here's a list of our supported devices" ..... I think I'll try and get someone on the phone again. 

 

Hmm... 

and this is with a “board that should have Zero difficulty with this minute task”.

That’s a little bit odd, when you have already been advised by tech support - “Sorry, that device just isn’t compatible”.

As I understand it, you are looking for troubleshooting advice, but not open to suggestions.

That sort of defeats the object of seeking assistance.

You ask for help, and you’re not wiling to consider a logical suggestion.

Fine by me, I just love watching people struggle.

Oh, yeah - I also thought that the first thing to try when confronted by the BSOD was strip out the drivers and re-install Windows.

God forbid, that I would make that a suggestion.

But that's not a journey you are on at the moment. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

With due respect, my first paragraph addressed "knowledge and experience", and you didn't address either. DID you run those tests? I see that you've decided to reinstall windows, Hopefully that will work. If not, run the stress tests. Even a new MB can have issues, and memory/CPU/GPU glitches are really hard to track down. Failing that, if a clean install with NO other drivers/devices present doesn't get it, then you're stuck in one of my favorite support loops - the driver support folks blame the MB, the MB support folks blame the driver, and your insistence that it's one or the other matters not a whit to either! My suggestion to try a basic MB was based on my feelings that my time is worth a lot - I'd rather be playing music than troubleshooting computer problems!

 

Sorry, I missed the "Yes I did" line. The rest still applies.

 

Absolutely agree with the first part. Your suggestion made perfect sense, which is why I said yes, I've already tried those things. I'm definitely in the support loop between the drivers and Mobo. Waiting to hear back from ASUS regarding their plan for moving forward. They were able to identify that the install of the latest BIOS update was not successful. We're going to try and do that again and see if that helps, but the tech that I spoke to has moderate to low hopes. We shall see. I would absolutely rather be playing music than troubleshooting PC issues as well. That being said, I moved to the PC because Mac standard products could no longer keep up with the level of production I provide. 

Appreciate the tips! 

J

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4 hours ago, datacommando said:

 

Hmm... 

and this is with a “board that should have Zero difficulty with this minute task”.

That’s a little bit odd, when you have already been advised by tech support - “Sorry, that device just isn’t compatible”.

As I understand it, you are looking for troubleshooting advice, but not open to suggestions.

That sort of defeats the object of seeking assistance.

You ask for help, and you’re not wiling to consider a logical suggestion.

Fine by me, I just love watching people struggle.

Oh, yeah - I also thought that the first thing to try when confronted by the BSOD was strip out the drivers and re-install Windows.

God forbid, that I would make that a suggestion.

But that's not a journey you are on at the moment. 

 

 

 

You took my "not open to suggestions" out of context. I'm not looking to replace a several thousand dollar build specifically for this function in production as a work around. I posted to seek assistance with my current setup which is specifically FOR music production. A comment like "Well.. use a mac for music" is not productive or helpful, and not a "logical suggestion". Additionally, I mentioned in another post above that i've already done a fresh install of windows. 

 

Thanks for your suggestions, and feel free to go "watch people struggle" elsewhere. I need help with my setup, not random, unsolicited comments that wont resolve my small, albeit frustrating technical issue. 

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8 minutes ago, jonathanreid101 said:

 

Absolutely agree with the first part. Your suggestion made perfect sense, which is why I said yes, I've already tried those things. I'm definitely in the support loop between the drivers and Mobo. Waiting to hear back from ASUS regarding their plan for moving forward. They were able to identify that the install of the latest BIOS update was not successful. We're going to try and do that again and see if that helps, but the tech that I spoke to has moderate to low hopes. We shall see. I would absolutely rather be playing music than troubleshooting PC issues as well. That being said, I moved to the PC because Mac standard products could no longer keep up with the level of production I provide. 

Appreciate the tips! 

J

 

Well, you know what you want, and apparently have a legitimate need for the "Star Trek" solution. You're also willing to pay the price in time spent on the phone. Best of luck and, when you do get it resolved, please report back here. I'll honestly be interested in the solution. My Core2 Duo is getting a bit long in the tooth.......

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4 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

Well, you know what you want, and apparently have a legitimate need for the "Star Trek" solution. You're also willing to pay the price in time spent on the phone. Best of luck and, when you do get it resolved, please report back here. I'll honestly be interested in the solution. My Core2 Duo is getting a bit long in the tooth.......

 

I'm not sure it's fair to characterize a "gaming" computer as a "Star Trek' solution.  I own one simply because it's the only thing with enough beef to keep up with video editing and rendering.  There's not a game in sight.  The same goes for my youngest son who spent almost $6000 on his "gaming" computer to facilitate video editing and special effects production as well as real time coordinated lighting  and video for stage productions.  My other son has one to facilitate CAD and CNC automation production.  Sometimes these are really the only solutions available to handle certain types of heavyweight applications.

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7 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

 

I'm not sure it's fair to characterize a "gaming" computer as a "Star Trek' solution.  I own one simply because it's the only thing with enough beef to keep up with video editing and rendering.  There's not a game in sight.  The same goes for my youngest son who spent almost $6000 on his "gaming" computer to facilitate video editing and special effects production as well as real time coordinated lighting  and video for stage productions.  My other son has one to facilitate CAD and CNC automation production.  Sometimes these are really the only solutions available to handle certain types of heavyweight applications.

 

Compared to my Core2 Duo (which does EVERYTHING, as long as I don't need it done yesterday), it's "Star Trek" ;-) as in NEXT NEXT NEXT (to the 8th) Generation!

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Hi Everyone!

 

I was able to resolve the problem just now. I again erased the SSD, formatted the drive, reinstalled windows, updated the Bios, and did NOT download any windows 10 updates or drivers except the Line6 Helix driver and Line6 Hx Edit. When I turned on the Helix I got the lovely Windows Jingle letting me know that it recognized a newly connected device. It loaded for a moment, and then selected the helix as my primary audio device. All seems to be well. I'll be downloading each driver for each PC component with the helix on and plugged in JUST in case one of them is the culprit for the BSOD. I will report back if I learn anything further but for the moment, the issue has been resolved. Fingers crossed that all is smooth from here.

 

Now to learn a new DAW......

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51 minutes ago, jonathanreid101 said:

Hi Everyone!

 

I was able to resolve the problem just now. I again erased the SSD, formatted the drive, reinstalled windows, updated the Bios, and did NOT download any windows 10 updates or drivers except the Line6 Helix driver and Line6 Hx Edit. When I turned on the Helix I got the lovely Windows Jingle letting me know that it recognized a newly connected device. It loaded for a moment, and then selected the helix as my primary audio device. All seems to be well. I'll be downloading each driver for each PC component with the helix on and plugged in JUST in case one of them is the culprit for the BSOD. I will report back if I learn anything further but for the moment, the issue has been resolved. Fingers crossed that all is smooth from here.

 

Now to learn a new DAW......

 

Might not hurt to create and save Windows restore points on a regular basis going forward.  Doing a backup of Windows now and then is probably not a bad idea either.  Just a hedge against stumbling back on the same combination of hardware/firmware/software/peripherals that was rendering your system unusable previously.

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Update: All was not smooth from there. I downloaded drivers for:

- DVDROM

- Sata SSD Samsung EVO

- i7-8700 Coffee lake 

- NVidia GTX 1080TI Driver/experience platform

All without issue. 

I then began downloading the MOBO drivers from the ROG disk that came with it. It installed 6 drivers and 4 auxillary applications that allow complete tracking of the mobo and components performance (temps, speeds, etc). After reboot, PC cycled through startup and then BSOD after ~30 seconds post login just as it did before.

 

Just to be 100% certain,, I uninstalled the full suite of apps and drivers, rebooted, and am currently typing this with my Helix as the primary soundcard. It's 1 am where I am, but tomorrow I will narrow down to EXACTLY which driver/app is causing the crash and report back. 

 

Kindly, 

JR 

 

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On 9/25/2018 at 1:07 AM, jonathanreid101 said:

Update: All was not smooth from there. I downloaded drivers for:

- DVDROM

- Sata SSD Samsung EVO

- i7-8700 Coffee lake 

- NVidia GTX 1080TI Driver/experience platform

All without issue. 

I then began downloading the MOBO drivers from the ROG disk that came with it. It installed 6 drivers and 4 auxillary applications that allow complete tracking of the mobo and components performance (temps, speeds, etc). After reboot, PC cycled through startup and then BSOD after ~30 seconds post login just as it did before.

 

Just to be 100% certain,, I uninstalled the full suite of apps and drivers, rebooted, and am currently typing this with my Helix as the primary soundcard. It's 1 am where I am, but tomorrow I will narrow down to EXACTLY which driver/app is causing the crash and report back. 

 

Kindly, 

JR 

 

 

There may be updated drivers you can download from the website for your MB. There's always the possibility that if they exist they will play nicer with Helix than the ones that came on disk when you purchased the MB.  Although it sounds like the problem is the MB drivers in this case, a good test also is to try different USB ports and even an alternate USB cable, especially if all your other devices are working properly. From your description so far though it sounds like a conflict between the Helix driver and one of the drivers for the MB.

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6 hours ago, jonathanreid101 said:

Update: All was not smooth from there. I downloaded drivers for:

- DVDROM

- Sata SSD Samsung EVO

- i7-8700 Coffee lake 

- NVidia GTX 1080TI Driver/experience platform

All without issue. 

I then began downloading the MOBO drivers from the ROG disk that came with it. It installed 6 drivers and 4 auxillary applications that allow complete tracking of the mobo and components performance (temps, speeds, etc). After reboot, PC cycled through startup and then BSOD after ~30 seconds post login just as it did before.

 

Just to be 100% certain,, I uninstalled the full suite of apps and drivers, rebooted, and am currently typing this with my Helix as the primary soundcard. It's 1 am where I am, but tomorrow I will narrow down to EXACTLY which driver/app is causing the crash and report back. 

 

Kindly, 

JR 

 

 

Well, that’s a real surprise!

Who would have though that the problem originated from the software that shipped with your ROG Strix Z370E Gaming board.

Guess those tech support people must have been right all along when they said, “Sorry, that device is not compatible”.

I suppose that’s “bleeding edge technology” for you.

Right, I’ve seen enough struggling with a self induced computer problem.

I’m going to get back to doing some serious guitar stuff with my Helix.

One final thought about tools to do the job, if you’re gonna spend several thousands on a computer for music production, you could do worse than an iMac Pro.

Oh, yes - you did do worse!

Well I did say I was biased.

 

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3 minutes ago, datacommando said:

 

Well, that’s a real surprise!

Who would have though that the problem originated from the software that shipped with your ROG Strix Z370E Gaming board.

Guess those tech support people must have been right all along when they said, “Sorry, that device is not compatible”.

I suppose that’s “bleeding edge technology” for you.

Right, I’ve seen enough struggling with a self induced computer problem.

I’m going to get back to doing some serious guitar stuff with my Helix.

One final thought about tools to do the job, if you’re gonna spend several thousands on a computer for music production, you could do worse than an iMac Pro.

Oh, yes - you did do worse!

Well I did say I was biased.

 

 

ASUS software bundles sucks Baal's balls. I've had fairly good luck with their motherboards over the past 10+ years though. The motherboard software isn't necessary.

 

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2 hours ago, duncann said:

 

ASUS software bundles sucks Baal's balls. I've had fairly good luck with their motherboards over the past 10+ years though. The motherboard software isn't necessary.

 

 

Hi duncann,

 

I wouldn't particularly know about the ASUS product, and/or bundled software.
The point is that, this young man stated on his opening post that ASUS had told him of a compatibility issue, and what he wanted to do appears to have been causing the BSOD.
Several users on here advised him, that when faced with the BSOD situation, the usual course of action is to strip out all the drivers and do a clean install of Windoze 10.

Essentially, strip back to basics.
It now seems that message has finally sunk in and he got the computer to work alone with his Helix perfectly well.

Apparently, he cannot be happy with that, he has continued to plough his own furrow, and installed the softwares that he originally was told by tech support were incompatible.
Some people will never stop tinkering with things.

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Your comments are like cancer. I don't understand why you waste your time being here if your words are just condescension and offer nothing to the conversation. 

 

It did not "Sink In" - I followed the steps recommended several times and it was not until a combination of all of the steps were completed in a particular order that the issue resolved. The engineer that I was speaking to in the end said this was a 1 in a million case where the outdated bios corrupted the initial windows install and there was no real way to tell because everything else was functioning perfectly. It was not until we did a full wipe, format, update bios, reinstall windows and then install the sound driver alone - IN THAT ORDER - that the issue resolved, and even that has not been a solution, it's been a work around. My goal is to help future users of both of these products to be able to avoid this issue, or at minimum fix it if they have it so they can use their machines to the best of their production capability, not some hack-me work around. 

 

It's not that I "cannot be happy with that" - it's that this is a multifaceted machine, being used for a multitude of tasks and software. Something you clearly don't understand because you "Just play guitar". I'm going to install each driver for the motherboard so that it works to the best of its ability and once I find the culprit, I'm going to report it to line6 and to ASUS for further testing so that they CAN support the device. A task, by the way, that they ASKED ME TO DO for the betterment of the community. 

 

Anyway, thanks everyone who provided a piece to the puzzle. I'm still testing now, and will report back with the culprit. Windows did update overnight to Win.1083 and I had no BSOD this morning. 

 

 

 

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On 9/25/2018 at 12:31 PM, jonathanreid101 said:

Your comments are like cancer. I don't understand why you waste your time being here if your words are just condescension and offer nothing to the conversation. 

 

It did not "Sink In" - I followed the steps recommended several times and it was not until a combination of all of the steps were completed in a particular order that the issue resolved. The engineer that I was speaking to in the end said this was a 1 in a million case where the outdated bios corrupted the initial windows install and there was no real way to tell because everything else was functioning perfectly. It was not until we did a full wipe, format, update bios, reinstall windows and then install the sound driver alone - IN THAT ORDER - that the issue resolved, and even that has not been a solution, it's been a work around. My goal is to help future users of both of these products to be able to avoid this issue, or at minimum fix it if they have it so they can use their machines to the best of their production capability, not some hack-me work around. 

 

It's not that I "cannot be happy with that" - it's that this is a multifaceted machine, being used for a multitude of tasks and software. Something you clearly don't understand because you "Just play guitar". I'm going to install each driver for the motherboard so that it works to the best of its ability and once I find the culprit, I'm going to report it to line6 and to ASUS for further testing so that they CAN support the device. A task, by the way, that they ASKED ME TO DO for the betterment of the community. 

 

Anyway, thanks everyone who provided a piece to the puzzle. I'm still testing now, and will report back with the culprit. Windows did update overnight to Win.1083 and I had no BSOD this morning. 

 

 

 

IMO you did a good job troubleshooting this and narrowing down the issue.  Don't let someone's baditude get to you.

Generally speaking MoBo software can be a bit extraneous, but if you do want to use it, you are taking the right approach.  You WILL find the true culprit.  You may find out there is a newer version of that culprit out there and that one may work fine.  Keep plugging away and report your findings.

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Hi jonathanreid101,

 

'm also having the same issue as you - my PC is using ROG STRIX B350-F GAMING motherboard. I've done all the updates for drivers and windows but still facing the issue. It's frustrating. I held off on the PC reset as I'm using my PC for many other things. I'm glad I did. 

Based on what you found out, I tried doing my own troubleshooting. I first unloaded all the Mobo software running in the background (AI Suite 3, Ram Cache II and Aura). I switched on the Helix then ran the mobo software one at a time and waited for BSOD. I started with the AI Suite 3 followed by Ram Cache II. It was only when I ran the Ram Cache II app that the BSOD appeared and quite instantaneously also. I restarted my PC and I've been running Helix Edit now on my PC with AI Suite 3 running in the background with no BSOD (...so far, I'm only 30min in).

 

Thank you for the work that you did. Really helped me out.

 

 

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Just incase anyone is trawling through this thread for advice like I have been, can confirm that anyone using an Asus board and having blue screen issues should remove the RAM Cache software if it's installed, issue has been plaguing me for months, uninstalled and boom problems gone, thanks to everyone that posted helpful advice :)

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