Firmware 2.8 and USB Audio Driver - Mac

[bsd512]

After updating to 2.8 on my Mac (Mojave 10.14.5) it looks like the 2.8 update might have removed the Helix USB audio driver?

 

Anyone else see that?

 

I went to do a quick recording in Logic and Logic complained that the last audio device used (Helix) was no longer present. I went into Logic preference and "Helix Audio" was there, so I selected that. But I think that's the standard system audio driver because it doesn't have volume controls. I.e., when you go to raise or lower the volume using Mac keyboard shortcuts, it pops the little window saying those controls aren't available.

 

Was there an incompatibility with the Line 6 Driver with this new firmware such that Line 6 removed their driver and now defaults to using the Mac system driver?

 

I could try and reinstall the Line 6 one, but I thought I'd check here first.

[macjohn]

I'm on the same mac version and after upgrading to 2.8 my recordings were just gibberish. I installed the 2.8 driver from the line 6 website and after a reboot, all is well.

[bsd512]

Thanks for letting me know. I did a reinstall of the Line 6 driver and rebooted, but it doesn't seem to either be loading or recognizing the Helix w/2.8 firmware on my Mac. After rebooting, I still only see the "Helix Audio" output device which under system preferences indicates "The selected device has no output controls". I think that means that's the default apple audio driver, and not Line 6's. Same problem on a desktop Mac and my MacBook Pro laptop.

 

I'll try manually removing the Line 6 driver, reboot, install the driver again, reboot, and see if it clears up. 

 

If yours works, at least I know there's hope. Thanks!

[macjohn]

after I typed my first reply, it stopped working (for a bit). I noticed when I went into logic and looked at the audio devices, the helix was there and there was another helix called 'temporary' or something... I wished I paid better attention to that because I just selected the helix input device and the temporary one disappeared (it had been selected). It then stopped working. I reinstalled the driver (2nd time) and rebooted again, and so far it's been working (I've recorded multiple takes on several different projects and all seems to be working finally).

 

I also unplugged my helix after the 2nd install and plugged it back in after the reboot and after starting Logic.

 

So it might be kinda flaky, but it eventually works... at least for me.

[DunedinDragon]

You realize all bets are off if you didn't PRECISELY follow the sequence which is to:

 

1.  Download the HX Edit 2.80 install app, then run the downloaded install app that  will install HX Edit, the appropriate device drivers, and the correct version of Line 6 Updater.

2.  After that you exit HX Edit and run the new downloaded version of Line 6 Updater which installs the firmware.

Anything other than that and there's no telling what you have installed.  You may want to just start over and make sure you follow the sequence exactly.

[telewest]

And make sure you reload your back up file in hx edit  bottom left corner in preferences then it should be good to go.

[macjohn]

42 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said:

You realize all bets are off if you didn't PRECISELY follow the sequence which is to:

 

1.  Download the HX Edit 2.80 install app, then run the downloaded install app that  will install HX Edit, the appropriate device drivers, and the correct version of Line 6 Updater.

2.  After that you exit HX Edit and run the new downloaded version of Line 6 Updater which installs the firmware.

Anything other than that and there's no telling what you have installed.  You may want to just start over and make sure you follow the sequence exactly.

 

at least in my case, that was exactly the sequence I followed (well, backed up first). Everything was fine on the Helix... just had to install the driver before the mac would allow it to record properly as an input device.  

 

And nothing needed to be reloaded, all my patches were still there. 

[datacommando]

5 hours ago, macjohn said:

after I typed my first reply, it stopped working (for a bit). I noticed when I went into logic and looked at the audio devices, the helix was there and there was another helix called 'temporary' or something... I wished I paid better attention to that because I just selected the helix input device and the temporary one disappeared (it had been selected). It then stopped working. I reinstalled the driver (2nd time) and rebooted again, and so far it's been working (I've recorded multiple takes on several different projects and all seems to be working finally).

 

I also unplugged my helix after the 2nd install and plugged it back in after the reboot and after starting Logic.

 

So it might be kinda flaky, but it eventually works... at least for me.

 

Hi,

 

That “temporary” or something, that you mention occurs when Logic Pro X cannot detect the audio interface that was previously connected. It will try and create an audio device from whatever else it knows is available, usually the internal Mac sound option, although I have had it try to configure itself to use Soundflower. You just need to switch to whatever is actually connected, for example when I physically disconnect my Helix, Logic creates a “temporary” thing until I tell it to use the U-phoria UMC204HD even though it was already hooked up to the Mac. I would also guess that your recordings sounding “gibberish” could be that they were attempting to playback, but using the wrong sample rate i.e. recorded at 48 and playback at 44.1kHz . Most of this is more than likely due to the driver being screwed up. Glad to know that you managed to fix it.

[DunedinDragon]

7 hours ago, macjohn said:

 

at least in my case, that was exactly the sequence I followed (well, backed up first). Everything was fine on the Helix... just had to install the driver before the mac would allow it to record properly as an input device.  

 

And nothing needed to be reloaded, all my patches were still there. 

That's where the question lies.  You shouldn't have had to install any driver as the drivers needed by the Helix would have been installed when you ran the install for HX Edit.

[bsd512]

6 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

That's where the question lies.  You shouldn't have had to install any driver as the drivers needed by the Helix would have been installed when you ran the install for HX Edit.

But the driver doesn't appear to have been updated by the 2.8 installation:

 

[bsd@yyz]:/bsd- ls -ld /Library/Extensions/L6Helix.kext
drwxr-xr-x  3 root  wheel  96 Apr 13  2016 /Library/Extensions/L6Helix.kext/
[bsd@yyz]:/bsd- 

 

The driver I'm referring to is the one you get when select the "beta" checkbox on the Line 6 Downloads page, with hardware=Helix, software=All Software, and os=Mac OS X.

 

That driver is needed to get output controls, i.e., volume control when using the Helix as the Mac system output device.

 

That stopped working after the firmware update. Without it, instead of controlling the volume using the system volume level, you have to control the volume using each individual application's volume control. For example, bring up QuickTime to play an MP3, it plays full blast and ignores the system volume level setting without that driver.

[bsd512]

My issue is solved.

 

Totally my fault. I'd been using that beta driver since 2016 with no issues. And I missed that a new one was release along with the 2.8 firmware.

 

In my defense, the 2.8 release notes are 423 pages long and the audio driver is down below it, so ... I missed it. Installing the new driver (1.0.7) fixed everything for me.

[datacommando]

On 7/22/2019 at 11:18 AM, DunedinDragon said:

That's where the question lies.  You shouldn't have had to install any driver as the drivers needed by the Helix would have been installed when you ran the install for HX Edit.

 

Hi,

 

This info is a little late, but it is important as this thread was linked in a post elsewhere in this forum discussing a similar issue.

 

RE: MAC DRIVER FOR FIRMWARE 2.80

 

I looked inside the “HX Edit 2.80.dmg” when it mounted on a Mac OS X computer. Inside the “installer.pkg” there are 2 sub packages - one consists of the Helix Editor application and the other is the latest Line 6 Updater application. It appears that the “required 1.0.7 Mac Driver” is not installed by default. 

 

That explains why, after updating to 2.80, users are stuck with the 48,000 sample rate and no volume control.

 

Solution: to avoid issues with wrong sample rate garbled audio playback, simply install the 1.0.7 Mac Driver.

 

Considering that this 1.0.7 Mac Driver is “a required update to support Helix Firmware 2.80 or greater” I can only guess that it is not installed by default because of the statement that follows on the download page.

 

IMPORTANT! Installing the Helix Mac Driver 1.0.7 precludes using Helix with the class-compliant OS X Core Audio driver.

 

 

Hope this helps / makes sense.

 

Hi Ho Silver, away! 

[zolko60]

38 minutes ago, datacommando said:

IMPORTANT! Installing the Helix Mac Driver 1.0.7 precludes using Helix with the class-compliant OS X Core Audio driver.

So if the two "drivers" happen to appear in OSX sound panel something is wrong?
What happens if somebody has older driver installed? It becomes not compatible?
BTW: After the 2.80 update Class Compliant name of the Helix changed from "Helix" to "Line 6 Helix".

[datacommando]

3 minutes ago, zolko60 said:

So if the two "drivers" happen to appear in OSX sound panel something is wrong?
BTW: After the 2.80 update Class Compliant name of the Helix changed from "Helix" to "Line 6 Helix".

 

Hi,

 

I haven’t had the situation of two Line 6 drivers being available simultaneously, but my guess would be that it could cause some sort of conflict. My Behringer U-Phoria UMC204HD, ProTools Aggregate Device and Soundflower all appear in the Audio/MIDI set up along with the System built in options and Helix, but only Helix requires a driver. If there were 2 for Line 6 I would remove the one that I didn’t need, which is what I did by installing the 1.0.7 driver because the option of changing sample rates is more important to me from the recording aspect.

 

Oh, yes, I forgot to mention that I noticed the name changed from “Helix” to “Line 6 Helix”. May be to help tech support differentiate when troubleshooting?

 

Recently, pre 2.80, I needed to connect my old POD XT Live and Variax 600 to alter some custom settings and later I also hooked up the POD HD500, to check something out, with out any problems - the Line 6 Monkey just worked as it should, but I don’t remember if it needed a driver? If it does, possibly the new one will support the older hardware too.

[zolko60]

1 minute ago, datacommando said:

My Behringer U-Phoria UMC204HD, ProTools Aggregate Device and Soundflower all appear in the Audio/MIDI set up along with the System built in options and Helix, but only Helix requires a driver.

Hmm, I don't know much about Apple Class Compliancy but Class Compliant idea is there is not installable driver. It is hanshaking driverless protocol.
By "preclude" you mean CC usage option is no longer present in OSX?
The new Core Audio driver decription suggest the driver is required for 2.80 firmware compatibility what not neccessary must be true.

[Heavyville]

I'm dealing with a similar issue.  Followed the instructions.

I don't have channels 1-2 USB audio feed, but I do have CHannel 7 (DI feed) 

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, zolko60 said:

Hmm, I don't know much about Apple Class Compliancy but Class Compliant idea is there is not installable driver. It is hanshaking driverless protocol.
By "preclude" you mean CC usage option is no longer present in OSX?
The new Core Audio driver decription suggest the driver is required for 2.80 firmware compatibility what not neccessary must be true.

 

Soundflower is an open source kernel extension for MacOS, designed to create a virtual audio output device that can also act as an input. It is now superseded by Loopback - I need to update that, but because it’s virtual - no driver is needed.

 

The UMC204HD is an audio hardware interface and doesn’t require a driver for OSX, works with all sample rates and has volume control.

I don’t know why, but he same hardware does need a driver for use on a Windows machine.

 

I don’t know what exactly the Line 6 driver “precludes”, but if it’s not installed you don’t get access to sample rates other than 48k, therefore that must be what it precludes.

 

Anyhow, as previously noted - when installed I get access to the other stuff.

 

[datacommando]

7 minutes ago, rucmas said:

I'm dealing with a similar issue.  Followed the instructions.

I don't have channels 1-2 USB audio feed, but I do have CHannel 7 (DI feed) 

 

Hi,

 

That’s a little vague.

 

Don’t have channels 1-2 USB on what exactly?

 

More input required to help you with this.

[zolko60]

4 minutes ago, datacommando said:

Soundflower is an open source kernel extension for MacOS, designed to create a virtual audio output device that can also act as an input. It is now superseded by Loopback - I need to update that, but because it’s virtual - no driver is needed.

I swear I don't know what you are talking about. :D
 

 

4 minutes ago, datacommando said:

don’t know what exactly the Line 6 driver “precludes”, but if it’s not installed you don’t get access to sample rates other than 48k, therefore that must be what it precludes.

 

Helix is 48kHz device so 48Khz is just expected as Class Compliant. If you want to use other sample rates and your DAW can not resample on the fly you have option to isnstall that high latency Core Audio driver which can resample on the fly.
I am asking if Class Complaint usage is still avialiable option after installing Core Audio driver or CA driver instalation "precludes" CC usage.
 

[datacommando]

On 7/31/2019 at 1:23 PM, zolko60 said:

Helix is 48kHz device so 48Khz is just expected as Class Compliant. If you want to use other sample rates and your DAW can not resample on the fly you have option to isnstall that high latency Core Audio driver which can resample on the fly.
I am asking if Class Complaint usage is still avialiable option after installing Core Audio driver or CA driver instalation "precludes" CC usage.

 

Well the Helix sample rate is set on board at 48kHz and can record into logic with not issues and playback at any sample rate I wish, but obviously the stuff is played back double, quadruple or whatever. I don't have latency issues because everything is monitored via the Helix.

 

Here's what the Audio MIDI setup looks like right now.

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by datacommando
Removed file - low on space

[zolko60]

So to clarify: After instaling Core Audio high latency mutli sampling driver Class Compliant Helix usage is no longer possible.
Am I right?

[datacommando]

On 7/31/2019 at 2:11 PM, zolko60 said:

So to clarify: After instaling Core Audio high latency mutli sampling driver Class Compliant Helix usage is no longer possible.
Am I right?

 

The previously listed item named "Helix" is no longer there when you install the 1.0.7 'required driver for Mac OS"

 

It now appears as "Line 6 Helix" in all applications that use the audio.

 

 

 

This is from the Owner's Manual (not updated - as you are well aware)

 

"To use Helix as an audio interface for Mac® applications, it is not necessary to install any additional driver. Helix will utilize the Mac® computer's "Class Compliant" USB driver automatically simply by connecting to your USB port. Helix will then appear as a selectable Core Audio device within the Mac® Utilities > Audio MIDI Setup panel and/or directly within your audio and multimedia applications. However, note that this Apple® Class Compliant driver offers strictly 48kHz native sample rate operation. If you prefer to use a different native sample rate (or if your particular DAW applicationrequires it), you can optionally download and install the Line 6 Mac® Core Audio driver from line6.com/software. This Line 6 driver offers 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88kHz or 96kHzsample rate operation."

 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by datacommando
Removed file - low on space

[zolko60]

1 minute ago, datacommando said:

The previously listed item named "Helix" is no longer there when you install the 1.0.7 'required driver for Mac OS"

I thougt only Class Compliant naming changed (also changed?)
Now I understand why it is to hard to evaluate. To check CC you need to uninstall the driver.

 

2 minutes ago, datacommando said:

To use Helix as an audio interface for Mac® applications, it is not necessary to install any additional driver. Helix will utilize the Mac® 

That statement contradicts the driver description:  "Helix Mac Driver 1.0.7 is a required update to support Helix Firmware 2.80 or greater."

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, zolko60 said:

I thougt only Class Compliant naming changed (also changed?)
Now I understand why it is to hard to evaluate. To check CC you need to uninstall the driver.

 

That statement contradicts the driver description:  "Helix Mac Driver 1.0.7 is a required update to support Helix Firmware 2.80 or greater."

 

I had the same idea - remove the driver and see what happens. I went into the Library folder and removed the item "Line6Audio.kext" and restarted the Mac. Mmm... The  Audio Midi Setup the name remains the same "Line 6 Helix"!

 

There must be more to removing this version than the old Beta v1 thing.

 

I have to agree that there is a contradiction in the information regarding the Mac Driver for FW2.80.

 

I will dig a little deeper later.

 

 

Update:

What a Bozo! That driver "Line6Audio.kext" is the updated one from 22 June 2018 for the HD500 and XT Live POD units - DOH!
I have removed the specific Helix one now, but cannot restart as I am in the process of a large 3D render, so will update tomorrow.

 

Edited July 31, 2019 by datacommando
Additional Info

[Heavyville]

3 hours ago, datacommando said:

 

Hi,

 

That’s a little vague.

 

Don’t have channels 1-2 USB on what exactly?

 

More input required to help you with this.

Channel 1 -2 on the usb feed (from HElix) carries the affected ( all your junk)  Helix tone.   I do not have any signal on channel 1, but i do have channel 7 which is the DI feed. 

 

MAC 10.11.6 OSX 

Helix 2.8 

Updated Helix driver for MAC too. 

I have a support ticket in and have had some diologue over it, but nothing corrected it yet. 

 

 

[zolko60]

12 minutes ago, rucmas said:

Updated Helix driver for MAC too. 

Trash it! See what happens ;)

[datacommando]

4 minutes ago, rucmas said:

Channel 1 -2 on the usb feed (from HElix) carries the affected ( all your junk)  Helix tone.   I do not have any signal on channel 1, but i do have channel 7 which is the DI feed. 

 

MAC 10.11.6 OSX 

Helix 2.8 

Updated Helix driver for MAC too. 

I have a support ticket in and have had some diologue over it, but nothing corrected it yet. 

 

 

 

Hi rucmas,

 

When I saw your first post I opened up LPX 10.4.4 and set up 3 audio channels to record:

 

First: Input 1&2 USB from Helix fully processed stereo signal

 

Second: Input 7 USB from Helix - dry mono signal ( to re-amp)

 

Third: Input from channel 8 USB on Helix - also set for dry mono signal as previous

 

All recorded to Logic hot and strong so I'm not sure what is happening with your set up.

 

Nothing immediately springs to mind - you will have re-configured the Global Ins and Outs after the update to 2.80 because that massive "brain transplant" reset everything?

 

 

 

[Heavyville]

2 hours ago, datacommando said:

 

Hi rucmas,

 

When I saw your first post I opened up LPX 10.4.4 and set up 3 audio channels to record:

 

First: Input 1&2 USB from Helix fully processed stereo signal

 

Second: Input 7 USB from Helix - dry mono signal ( to re-amp)

 

Third: Input from channel 8 USB on Helix - also set for dry mono signal as previous

 

All recorded to Logic hot and strong so I'm not sure what is happening with your set up.

 

Nothing immediately springs to mind - you will have re-configured the Global Ins and Outs after the update to 2.80 because that massive "brain transplant" reset everything?

 

 

 

thanks for the response Datacommando.   I'm not close to my HElix now, but for shots and gaggles what should the Globabls be set at for recoding into Logic.  If i'm lucky i've simply forgot something stupid. 

thanks in advance

[Heavyville]

2 hours ago, zolko60 said:

Trash it! See what happens ;)

Trash it?   how so? 

somewhat of a serial DFU error kind of a guy here= me. 

 

[zolko60]

1 hour ago, rucmas said:

Trash it?   how so? 

somewhat of a serial DFU error kind of a guy here= me. 

As datacommando has shown thrashing (unistalling) Core Audio driver brings back Helix Class Compliant usage. It should be safe.
USB 12 output is hardwired to Multi Output. You can not change it in Global Settings. Maybe you use different outputs for monitoring?

[datacommando]

On 7/31/2019 at 7:06 PM, rucmas said:

thanks for the response Datacommando.   I'm not close to my HElix now, but for shots and gaggles what should the Globabls be set at for recoding into Logic.  If i'm lucky i've simply forgot something stupid. 

thanks in advance

 

Hi,

 

Apologies for delayed response, but sometimes I feel it’s necessary to eat and sleep.

 

Anyhow, rather than type everything out a picture is worth a ... - A picture!

 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by datacommando
Removed file - low on space

[datacommando]

On 7/31/2019 at 4:41 PM, zolko60 said:

Trash it! See what happens ;)

 

As promised in a previous post – this is what happens when you "trash it"

 

Note: Greyed out "Line 6 Helix" is missing from the aggregate device as it is no longer available

 

 

 

 

This is all very interesting, but I still need to be able to work on stacks of old recordings at sample rates other that 48kHz, therefore I think that I will have to reinstall the "required driver".

 

If I have the CC "Helix Audio" selected for audio in/out in Logic Pro X prefs that the only available sample rate is 48kHz - the numbers in italic mean they shouldn't be used.

 

Yes, I know I can change the sample rate by bouncing audio tracks independently of any connected audio device and it's capabilities. But ...Hey! who want to spend all day on bulk sample rate conversions!

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by datacommando
Removed picture files - low on space

[soundog]

Why is this such a mess, Line 6? Apple's Mac USB audio class driver supports all the usual sample rates (44.1, 48, 192k, etc) and should work with no muss or fuss if a company designs to its specs. Users shouldn't have to worry about installing a separate "driver." That's not very Mac-like, is it??

[zolko60]

The answer is simple. Helix is not marketed as an audio interface. Its internal operation is 48kHz. Making USB transfer at different sample rates would probably require more ICs or DSP power.

[Heavyville]

@datacommando i've figured it out.  DFU oversight. 

I started from scratch after 2.8 with new patches for a cover band, when I writing them I was specific to the routing of the signal 

1 path was for FOH via XLR 

1 path was for a Amp via 1/4 " 

 

apparently you have to set the output to multi to get USB 1-2 to throw the feed towards your DAW. 

 

I was building a new patch around the Grammatico amp preset and after getting it dialled in I happened to notice a signal on an input getting a -3 db feed. sure enough channel 1-2 coming in hot!!! 

 

thanks for anyone who pitched in with suggestions!! 

you guys are the best!!!

 

[soundog]

@zolco60:

 

Ah ha! So you think the Line 6 driver does some sort of software sample rate conversion? That would explain things, I suppose --- it would save them the expense of a hardware sample rate converter chip doo-dad or similar. (Even though some of the marketing material at places like Sweetwater do tout its ability as a "8-in/8-out USB audio interface" I get what you're saying --- its not sold as such.)

[zolko60]

12 hours ago, soundog said:

So you think the Line 6 driver does some sort of software sample rate conversion?

Yes, I do. CC usage - 11ms Round Trip Latency, Driver - 19ms (48kHz, 128 samples buffer, 2.7 firmware).
Still on 2.7 aggregating CC was possible. Now datacommando claims it is not.

 

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, zolko60 said:

Still on 2.7 aggregating CC was possible. Now datacommando claims it is not.

 

Hi,

 

I think that statement needs clarification. I don’t claim that “aggregating is not possible” - it is.

 

My screen grab shows that when the “2.80 required Mac Driver” is removed, in my Pro Tools Aggregate I/O it is shown as a “greyed out item” because it is no longer available. On a second restart the “greyed out” ghost item is no longer listed, as the operating system detects that it is physically no longer available (if the OS listed everything that had ever been connected, the list would be ridiculously long).

 

Furthermore, the item “HELIX Audio” is what appears as the default CC item. You can see that has been added to the list of devices available to the OS and is also listed as device in the ProTools Aggregate I/O - it simply needed the checkbox to be ticked to make it part of the Aggregate options.

 

The point that I was hoping to show was that if you don’t use the “required Mac Driver”, then from within Logic Pro X the only sample rate available is 48kHz. It may be as well to mention that AFAIK, the Fractal products are all set at 48kHz with no other option. Someone complained to them that while 48kHz is a standard in the video market, using 44.1kHz for the average recording guitarist would possibly be better. Fractal’s response was something along the lines of “it is the best option for the DSPs used and we don’t have any plans to use any other sample rate”.

 

Note: The UMC204HD in the list is also a Class Compliant Audio device up to 192kHz  - connect to the USB and it just works, no restart required.

 

Hope that clears that up any blurred areas.

 

 

[zolko60]

This is what I mean. Guitar modellers and FXs can have audio interface feature but it is not their main purpose. Eg. Fractal AX8 has no interface feature and nobody cares.
Albeit the Helix hardware beats many audio interfaces sound quality wise. It does not matter to me they natively support 96 or 192kHz while their performance is inferior.
I have tested Behringer UMC202HD loopback - 89dB S/N ratio vs Helix 110dB.