Copied presets sound different in different setlists

[markvargha]

Hi guys,

 

I have recently noticed on my HELIX LT that my presets sound slightly different when I copy them to another setlist. Namely, I have the very same presets in User 3 and User 4, and the same preset in User 4 sounds noticeably less alive (as if I'd dialed presence or gain back a bit). I mainly use User 3 folder to create the presets and then copy them to User 4 in the convenient order, but I've just discovered the issue above and I was wondering if there is a logical explanation behind it.
Some could easily say that it is just my ears that trick me, but I've shown it to other people and they noticed it to - so the difference between the very same preset in User 3 and copied to User 4 is not huge, but definitely noticeable. And while it is easier to notice it on high-gain presets (the sound is thinner in User 4), it is definitely there for clean presets as well. Since it is the case for basically all presets that can be found in both folders, it seems like a general difference between the folders, which is strange since I don't know about any options to set something like a general EQ which is only for a certain folder.

 

Any ideas on this, anyone?

 

[cruisinon2]

On 5/31/2020 at 8:26 AM, markvargha said:

Hi guys,

 

I have recently noticed on my HELIX LT that my presets sound slightly different when I copy them to another setlist. Namely, I have the very same presets in User 3 and User 4, and the same preset in User 4 sounds noticeably less alive (as if I'd dialed presence or gain back a bit). I mainly use User 3 folder to create the presets and then copy them to User 4 in the convenient order, but I've just discovered the issue above and I was wondering if there is a logical explanation behind it.
Some could easily say that it is just my ears that trick me, but I've shown it to other people and they noticed it to - so the difference between the very same preset in User 3 and copied to User 4 is not huge, but definitely noticeable. And while it is easier to notice it on high-gain presets (the sound is thinner in User 4), it is definitely there for clean presets as well. Since it is the case for basically all presets that can be found in both folders, it seems like a general difference between the folders, which is strange since I don't know about any options to set something like a general EQ which is only for a certain folder.

 

Any ideas on this, anyone?

 

 

Copying and pasting stuff is convenient, but sometimes unreliable, it seems. I used to copy and paste entire patches all the time to edit one and A/B with the original, etc etc... but apparently if you do it enough, make copies of copies, or with certain combinations of blocks, weird things can happen. I've noticed that some FX will behave erratically in certain configurations with a copied patch, or if you edit the copy in certain ways, some stuff might not work properly. The original patches generally continue to sound fine, as do identical patches that I've re-created manually block by block. It takes longer, but there's less chance of a hassel down the line.

[themetallikid]

I havent noticed changes in the preset itself when copying/pasting, however I've had other issues.  if I'm within a setlist I'll still copy/paste, but if its from setlist > setlist, i've gotten into the habit of exporting/importing.  

[DunedinDragon]

If you want to really make a perfect copy I'd suggest you export the preset to your disk drive and import it in the different location.  This is how I handle all of my presets and haven't had any problems moving between setlists for well over 4 years.

[rd2rk]

21 minutes ago, themetallikid said:

I havent noticed changes in the preset itself when copying/pasting, however I've had other issues.  if I'm within a setlist I'll still copy/paste, but if its from setlist > setlist, i've gotten into the habit of exporting/importing.  

 

20 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said:

If you want to really make a perfect copy I'd suggest you export the preset to your disk drive and import it in the different location.  This is how I handle all of my presets and haven't had any problems moving between setlists for well over 4 years.

 

Since having backup copies of files in a separate location is a basic rule of using computers, this (exporting to HD) is a good habit to get into anyway.

[themetallikid]

2 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

 

Since having backup copies of files in a separate location is a basic rule of using computers, this (exporting to HD) is a good habit to get into anyway.

agreed, I never had the issues I have with Helix doing the same thing with other units in years past.  But, never the less, this is still good advice to always backup.  

[Hillman1312]

Maybe share the same preset of both setlists on this forum so we could have a look/ listen as well? This might help in further understanding the problem.

[markvargha]

Many thanks for the answers everyone. The unit itself is delinitely great and sounds are awesome, this was just a small thing I could not get my head around. And the weird thing is that the problem does not seem to be copying just by itself, as if I copy the preset to another slot within the same setlist (say, from 7A to 15A within setlist User 3) it sounds perfectly identical, so the problem really only appears when copying into another setlist. Another thing adding to the "mystery" is that I tried copying the worse sounding copy back from User 4 to User 3 setlist to an empty slot, amd when I do it is sounds perfect again in User 3... :D

 

Anyway, I'll definitely try 2 things, as suggested: exporting the preset and importing it to the other setlist, and I will also try to build it up again manually from scratch, and see what the results are. 

 

Many thanks for all the suggestions! 

[markvargha]

On 6/2/2020 at 3:48 PM, cruisinon2 said:

 

Copying and pasting stuff is convenient, but sometimes unreliable, it seems. I used to copy and paste entire patches all the time to edit one and A/B with the original, etc etc... but apparently if you do it enough, make copies of copies, or with certain combinations of blocks, weird things can happen. I've noticed that some FX will behave erratically in certain configurations with a copied patch, or if you edit the copy in certain ways, some stuff might not work properly. The original patches generally continue to sound fine, as do identical patches that I've re-created manually block by block. It takes longer, but there's less chance of a hassel down the line.

Sure, I'll give it a go, obviously it takes some time and there is always the worry that you get some of the settings wrong as you go through the blocks, but of you A/B it with the original and finally it sounds the same, it's worth all the trouble. 

[markvargha]

On 6/2/2020 at 7:12 PM, themetallikid said:

agreed, I never had the issues I have with Helix doing the same thing with other units in years past.  But, never the less, this is still good advice to always backup.  

Yeah, I regularly do the complete backup for the Helix, but I've never thought of exporting single presets and importing them back to see if it works better than copying, so I'll definitely try this way. 

[markvargha]

19 hours ago, Hillman1312 said:

Maybe share the same preset of both setlists on this forum so we could have a look/ listen as well? This might help in further understanding the problem.

Sure, I could do that. As I've mentioned, the issue basically appears for all presets copied from User 3 to User 4 (high gain leads, relatively high gain crunch tones and pristine cleans), what do you suggest? To me it is the most obvious on the high gain leads. 

 

BTW, I am running ML Sound Lab IRs in all of the presets, so how would it work? I assume you are not supposed to share these around or you get into copyright issues, right? (Mikko worked so hard on these and deserves all the money and credit, since they sound awesome)