Helix - Freqout

[Vic20-Ian]

Can the Helix simulate the effect of this Freqout pedal somehow?

 

e.g. could a chorus pedal do something similar with momentary switching?

 

 

 

[datacommando]

6 hours ago, Vic20-Ian said:

Can the Helix simulate the effect of this Freqout pedal somehow?

Not really - and if you want to create that effect you could do like many other Helix users - buy one and hook it up to your Helix.

 

Digitech Frequout pedals are not too expensive, it’s the simplest solution. Type “freqout” in the search panel at the top of the main page and see how many hit it gets. Quite a number really.

[Vic20-Ian]

@datacommando Many thanks. I am still overwhelmed by all that it does and don't have a deep understanding of all the pedals.

 

Perhaps this great Freqout effect will be added one day as so many people would love that feedback at low volumes.

[jester700]

There are a few pedals that DigiTech has made that just seem to do what they do better than other options I've tried. Most are related to intelligent and/or polyphonic pitch shifting. The Whammy & Drop algorithms, the FreqOut, the Mosaic pseudo 12 string effect, the Harmony Man pitch shifter. I have a few of these.

 

The cool part is, after Digitech let them go, Line6 picked up a few of their pitch geniuses. Some of the fruits of that are supposed to show up in the next big firmware revision (3.0). I'm kind of excited.

 

Now if they can just snag a couple of fuzz guys from Boss and implement their adaptive distortion... ;-)

[datacommando]

12 hours ago, jester700 said:

The cool part is, after Digitech let them go, Line6 picked up a few of their pitch geniuses. Some of the fruits of that are supposed to show up in the next big firmware revision (3.0). I'm kind of excited.

It was 2 years back when Digital Igloo (Eric Klein) posted this comment in the Pedalboards of Doom thing on FarceBuck.

 

 

[tappistrt]

On 8/16/2020 at 1:04 PM, Vic20-Ian said:

@datacommando Many thanks. I am still overwhelmed by all that it does and don't have a deep understanding of all the pedals.

 

Perhaps this great Freqout effect will be added one day as so many people would love that feedback at low volumes.

 

On 8/16/2020 at 2:57 PM, jester700 said:

There are a few pedals that DigiTech has made that just seem to do what they do better than other options I've tried. Most are related to intelligent and/or polyphonic pitch shifting. The Whammy & Drop algorithms, the FreqOut, the Mosaic pseudo 12 string effect, the Harmony Man pitch shifter. I have a few of these.

 

The cool part is, after Digitech let them go, Line6 picked up a few of their pitch geniuses. Some of the fruits of that are supposed to show up in the next big firmware revision (3.0). I'm kind of excited.

 

Now if they can just snag a couple of fuzz guys from Boss and implement their adaptive distortion... ;-)

Polyphonic pitch shifting has been a LONG time coming for sure. Glad to hear that it's highly likely going to be hitting the 3.0 update.

 

As far as the Freqout/Feedbacker effect goes, there's a well-upvoted post on IdeaScale that's reached the "In Review" status. Unfortunately it's about 3+ years old at this point, which tells me Line6 doesn't seem to be all that motivated to add the effect in at all. It's a shame considering there's no way (to my knwledge) to make a digital/virtual amp feed back like playing a physical amp and cab. The FreqOut pedal is awesome and totally worth adding to a Helix rig if you have the room for it.

 

 

[Lone_Poor_Boy]

15 hours ago, tappistrt said:

Line6 doesn't seem to be all that motivated to add the effect in at all

 

There's a LOT more to it than 'motivation', such as those pesky lawyers, for example.  And figuring out how to do it.  I'm just commenting based on past feedback here on this topic.

 

I mean, look what they have built and included.  You think they saw the FreqOut and just said "Naw"?

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, Lone_Poor_Boy said:

based on past feedback

Hell, ain’t that what these guy’s are after?
Damn!

Where are the emojis when ya need ‘em?

;-)

[Lone_Poor_Boy]

7 minutes ago, datacommando said:

Hell, ain’t that what these guy’s are after?

 

He's here all week folks!  Try the veal!

[PierM]

Maybe they also approach tasks by priority, doing pedals that most people wants and/or that have some "heritage". Freqout is cool, but it's something you use couple of times, in a song o two.... and that's it.

 

Also not even sure it's doable just with DSPs...

[tappistrt]

20 hours ago, PierM said:

Maybe they also approach tasks by priority, doing pedals that most people wants and/or that have some "heritage". Freqout is cool, but it's something you use couple of times, in a song o two.... and that's it.

 

Also not even sure it's doable just with DSPs...

I have a FreqOut pedal and I'm quite sure it's digital.

[PierM]

53 minutes ago, tappistrt said:

I have a FreqOut pedal and I'm quite sure it's digital.

 

Yes, you're right. :)

[TLF2007]

I recreated the Freqout good enough to get me through a couple songs I needed that edge/into feedback kind of sound without having to bring it to a gig. Its on CustomTone.  https://line6.com/customtone/tone/4237762/ . Operates a little bit differently by using the expression pedal but the instructions are in the patch notes and is the "Natural High" setting on the FreqOut. You may have to change outputs. Its set up as a gig patch using Input 2 for a bass path irrelevant to the Guitar Patch on input 1 so ignore that. I tried to use Autoswell on a momentary to bring in the path but that effect is overall frustrating and was better on the Exp pedal. Even with the FreqOut,  I like the Exp pedal over a momentary anyway. If there was available LFO assignments like on the Digitech GNX ( maybe even RP) stuff, the path could be automated for a momentary better. 

[Lone_Poor_Boy]

16 hours ago, tappistrt said:

On 8/19/2020 at 3:50 AM, PierM said:

Also not even sure it's doable just with DSPs...

I have a FreqOut pedal and I'm quite sure it's digital.

 

I'm assuming Tap thought that Pier meant by the comment "Also not even sure it's doable just with DSPs..." that the Helix couldn't do an analog pedal.  What Pier MEANT, I'm pretty sure, is would it have the DSP capacity to do the 'FreqOut' without eating up too much?  Like the Looper addition issue.

 

Could be wrong on one or all of my assumptions.

[tappistrt]

6 hours ago, Lone_Poor_Boy said:

 

I'm assuming Tap thought that Pier meant by the comment "Also not even sure it's doable just with DSPs..." that the Helix couldn't do an analog pedal.  What Pier MEANT, I'm pretty sure, is would it have the DSP capacity to do the 'FreqOut' without eating up too much?  Like the Looper addition issue.

 

Could be wrong on one or all of my assumptions.

I'm not a DSP designer so I'm not going to make any assumptions either.

 

 

[tappistrt]

13 hours ago, TLF2007 said:

I recreated the Freqout good enough to get me through a couple songs I needed that edge/into feedback kind of sound without having to bring it to a gig. Its on CustomTone.  https://line6.com/customtone/tone/4237762/ . Operates a little bit differently by using the expression pedal but the instructions are in the patch notes and is the "Natural High" setting on the FreqOut. You may have to change outputs. Its set up as a gig patch using Input 2 for a bass path irrelevant to the Guitar Patch on input 1 so ignore that. I tried to use Autoswell on a momentary to bring in the path but that effect is overall frustrating and was better on the Exp pedal. Even with the FreqOut,  I like the Exp pedal over a momentary anyway. If there was available LFO assignments like on the Digitech GNX ( maybe even RP) stuff, the path could be automated for a momentary better. 

That's awesome! Is there an amp in the signal path? Curious if I could use this with an HX Effects.

[tappistrt]

On 8/18/2020 at 1:38 PM, Lone_Poor_Boy said:

 

There's a LOT more to it than 'motivation', such as those pesky lawyers, for example.  And figuring out how to do it.  I'm just commenting based on past feedback here on this topic.

 

I mean, look what they have built and included.  You think they saw the FreqOut and just said "Naw"?

I realize the Helix ecosystem has grown substantially. Maybe the Line 6 folks assume this effect is more of a niche thing? Don't know.

[PierM]

8 hours ago, Lone_Poor_Boy said:

 

I'm assuming Tap thought that Pier meant by the comment "Also not even sure it's doable just with DSPs..." that the Helix couldn't do an analog pedal.  What Pier MEANT, I'm pretty sure, is would it have the DSP capacity to do the 'FreqOut' without eating up too much?  Like the Looper addition issue.

 

Could be wrong on one or all of my assumptions.

 

I was just wondering if Helix has all the hardware that's needed to drive a similar effect, but I have seen the Freqout board, and indeed looks all driven by a DSP and a Bios...so, I think would be all a matter to write the correct algo. I was wrong in my doubt. :)

[TLF2007]

5 hours ago, tappistrt said:

That's awesome! Is there an amp in the signal path? Curious if I could use this with an HX Effects.

There is an amp in it but the signal path for the Feedbacker circuit is separate. Split A/B before the amp on the expression pedal-Logarithmic Volume also on the exp pedal--Simple Pitch +12-Vtron (start U, End A)- EQ with a mid bump-Red Comp (Max Sustain)-Chamber reverb. The Split B path back to the A path is also before the amp...I'm thinking on tweaking it now that the Helix has more effects available than when I first put it together. It does the job tho. The rest of the band likes it. Its good for a taste.

[tappistrt]

17 hours ago, TLF2007 said:

There is an amp in it but the signal path for the Feedbacker circuit is separate. Split A/B before the amp on the expression pedal-Logarithmic Volume also on the exp pedal--Simple Pitch +12-Vtron (start U, End A)- EQ with a mid bump-Red Comp (Max Sustain)-Chamber reverb. The Split B path back to the A path is also before the amp...I'm thinking on tweaking it now that the Helix has more effects available than when I first put it together. It does the job tho. The rest of the band likes it. Its good for a taste.

If you could post an alternate version without an amp that would be excellent. I plan on picking up an HX Effects soon. :)

[Vic20-Ian]

Thanks for all the responses in this thread. I bought the pedal and just came back to this thread and saw the patch to try.

 

Natural high is the most convincing thing I found on the pedal so I am looking forward to giving @TLF2007 example a try out and compare with the real thing. I will post an update later.

 

 

 

 

[TLF2007]

Best of luck!

 

[Vic20-Ian]

@TLF2007

 

I did some back to back testing and my Freqout pedal is now pretty much redundant ;-)

 

Many thanks for this TLF2007

[TLF2007]

On 11/11/2020 at 4:18 AM, Vic20-Ian said:

@TLF2007

 

I did some back to back testing and my Freqout pedal is now pretty much redundant ;-)

 

Many thanks for this TLF2007

Glad it worked for you! My Freq Out sit in its box as well. 

[mattwolfson]

I’m a former Helix user thinking about adding a Stomp back to my setup. 
 

Does the Freqout emulation patch work on that unit or does it consume too much DSP?

 

 Thanks!

[datacommando]

15 hours ago, mattwolfson said:

I’m a former Helix user thinking about adding a Stomp back to my setup. 
 

Does the Freqout emulation patch work on that unit or does it consume too much DSP?

 

 Thanks!

 

Hi,

 

All the new FX are available in the Stomp v.3.01 firmware update, but please note this - from the official release notes.

• IMPORTANT! 3.0's new poly models are extremely DSP-intensive. Some effects can eat up roughly a quarter of all available DSP on a Helix Floor, Rack, or LT or half (!!!) of all available DSP on HX Stomp or HX Effects. You also can't run more than one on the same path/DSP (unless  you're running Helix Native with Hardware Compatibility Mode turned off). Don't say we didn't warn you...

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

[mattwolfson]

7 hours ago, datacommando said:

 

Hi,

 

All the new FX are available in the Stomp v.3.01 firmware update, but please note this - from the official release notes.

• IMPORTANT! 3.0's new poly models are extremely DSP-intensive. Some effects can eat up roughly a quarter of all available DSP on a Helix Floor, Rack, or LT or half (!!!) of all available DSP on HX Stomp or HX Effects. You also can't run more than one on the same path/DSP (unless  you're running Helix Native with Hardware Compatibility Mode turned off). Don't say we didn't warn you...

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

Hi, thank you! I am very aware of this and would only use the Stomp for one-off effects. My understanding is that I might not need the split paths and if that's the case - I believe the Stomp should cover these modules, right?: Simple Pitch +12-Vtron (start U, End A)- EQ with a mid bump-Red Comp (Max Sustain)-Chamber reverb

[datacommando]

5 hours ago, mattwolfson said:

Hi, thank you! I am very aware of this and would only use the Stomp for one-off effects. My understanding is that I might not need the split paths and if that's the case - I believe the Stomp should cover these modules, right?: Simple Pitch +12-Vtron (start U, End A)- EQ with a mid bump-Red Comp (Max Sustain)-Chamber reverb

Hi again,

 

Simple pitch +12 and EQ should be no problem, as they haven’t changed in the firmware update, and as the others (Red Comp, Vtron and Chamber verb) are legacy items and are possibly not as DSP intensive, AFAIK.

 

if you need to get an idea about this stuff, contributor “Malhavok”, Ben Vesco, has a list of how much DSP each item in the HX based products use. Check here:

 

https://benvesco.com/store/helix-dsp-allocations/

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

 

 

[mattwolfson]

On 12/23/2020 at 6:25 PM, datacommando said:

Hi again,

 

Simple pitch +12 and EQ should be no problem, as they haven’t changed in the firmware update, and as the others (Red Comp, Vtron and Chamber verb) are legacy items and are possibly not as DSP intensive, AFAIK.

 

if you need to get an idea about this stuff, contributor “Malhavok”, Ben Vesco, has a list of how much DSP each item in the HX based products use. Check here:

 

https://benvesco.com/store/helix-dsp-allocations/

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

It does help! This patch seems to be fairly non-intensive. I will have to find a clip of it to see how it sounds. I am thinking about selling a Zoia to fund the Helix. With the recent Helix update, the Stomp is incredibly attractive and I am not using the Zoia nearly enough as I should be!

 

 

[neffmc]

@TLF2007 - I only have the HX Stomp, but would love to give your patch a try. I'm viewing it in https://dbagchee.github.io/helix-preset-viewer/ but one of the models is unknown in there and I'm wondering if it's even possible on the Stomp if I cut out things like the amp, reverbs, etc.

 

Any thoughts?