Digital meathead b*tthurt that L6 Link disables S/PDIF…

[LesSand]

Has anyone found any creative ways (other than using USB) to have a Helix (Rack) connect to a PowerCab 212+ via L6 Link and still allow for some sort of digital output (into a soundcard, for instance)?

 

I use a Helix Rack + PC 212+ alongside a Clarett 8Pre and am bummed that switching on my PowerCab (connected to the Helix via L6) disables the S/PDIF output - I use the latter to intake the Helix signal, keeping some analog channels open and staying in the digital realm.

 

I quickly perused the forum, but didn’t find any ideas that’d specifically address that scenario.

 

Self-deprecatingly,

-LesSand

Edited February 26, 2022 by LesSand
Edited for clarity

[HonestOpinion]

22 minutes ago, LesSand said:

Has anyone found any creative ways (other than using USB) to have a Helix (Rack) connect to a PowerCab 212+ via L6 Link and still allow for some sort of digital output (into a soundcard, for instance)?

 

I use a Helix Rack + PC 212+ alongside a Clarett 8Pre and am bummed that switching on my PowerCab (connected to the Helix via L6) disables the S/PDIF output - I use the latter to intake the Helix signal, keeping some analog channels open and staying in the digital realm.

 

I quickly perused the forum, but didn’t find any ideas that’d specifically address that scenario.

 

Self-deprecatingly,

-LesSand

 

Can't offer a solution but just had to say that is a hilariously humble post and topic title :-)

[LesSand]

Good! If I don't get a solution, at least we got a laugh out of it :-D

[HonestOpinion]

Actually, I do have one incredibly far-fetched thought. I wonder if anyone has ever tested splitting the output from the L6 Link output? This doesn't really address using S/PDIF and L6 Link simultaneously, but if it it worked it could allow simultaneously using L6 Link and AES/EBU. The outlandish experiment proposed below would still keep you in the digital realm.

 

If the L6 Link protocol is close enough to AES/EBU, perhaps you could send one side of the split to your PowerCab, and another to an AES/EBU input on another device, and it would ignore any additional L6 Link data? Of course, it might just cause the Helix or any attached devices to go poof in the night with attendant smoking and burning. So, I am neither recommending this nor responsible for the possible consequences. Enter at your own risk or just - DON"T. Another possible issue is that the Helix might default to AES/EBU rather than L6 Link if two devices were connected via a split - one to L6 Link and one to AES/EBU. Have no idea and nowhere near the digital expertise to even hazard a guess. "Hazard" being the operative word here.

[LesSand]

Thanks for putting some thought on it, @HonestOpinion! What you described is EXACTLY what I was thinking too, but wanted to hear from you folks first.

 

And I too was wondering about differences between L6L and AES/EBU protocols, whether a passive solution would even make sense or if would need to look for a digital splitter (if that even exists; would I then need to worry about clocking... a potential rabbit hole), but it didn't occur to me that there could be actually physical malfunction caused by it.

 

Thanks for bringing this up, this perspective now gives me some extra pause.

 

And all of this because I'm trying to avoid using two simple analog cables... Ugh. Just saying that makes me feel dirty. I wish I could digitize my ears and listen to zeros and ones. (-:

[HonestOpinion]

33 minutes ago, LesSand said:

Thanks for putting some thought on it, @HonestOpinion! What you described is EXACTLY what I was thinking too, but wanted to hear from you folks first.

 

And I too was wondering about differences between L6L and AES/EBU protocols, whether a passive solution would even make sense or if would need to look for a digital splitter (if that even exists; would I then need to worry about clocking... a potential rabbit hole), but it didn't occur to me that there could be actually physical malfunction caused by it.

 

Thanks for bringing this up, this perspective now gives me some extra pause.

 

And all of this because I'm trying to avoid using two simple analog cables... Ugh. Just saying that makes me feel dirty. I wish I could digitize my ears and listen to zeros and ones. (-:

 

Agree with all of this. Even if damage to any devices involved is unlikely, I would not wholly discount it as a possibility. I also wondered about the specifics of how to go about splitting the signal. It could be relatively straightforward though.

 

Sescom SES-AES-EBU-Y Impedance Matching AES/EBU SES-AES-EBU-Y (bhphotovideo.com)

[rd2rk]

I'm guessing that you're trying to eliminate the AD/DA conversion at the "soundcard" for recording purposes?

I've done extensive comparisons with a DAW, and I cannot detect any difference between using SPDIF and using an analog channel on my Scarlett. 

I doubt that any measurement you can do will detect any either unless you're using a really old or incredibly cheap soundcard, but if you have a method that would show such a difference I'd be interested. How are you measuring?

 

I've never claimed to have "Golden Ears" :-) - too many years playing loud R'n'R - and my recording needs are purely amateur hour so I can't state definitively that there's no difference, but with modern converters there shouldn't be. I use a 2nd gen Scarlett 18i20. What are you using?

 

[datacommando]

3 hours ago, LesSand said:

I use a Helix Rack + PC 212+ alongside a Clarett 8Pre and am bummed that switching on my PowerCab (connected to the Helix via L6) disables the S/PDIF output

Hi,

 

You seem to be surprised, and somewhat annoyed, by that the fact that you can only use the S/PDIF, or the L6 LINK, but not both simultaneously.

 

This information is clearly documented in the Helix Rack 3.0 Owner’s Manual - Rev E - English page 65

 

“One digital output can be active at a time; choose S/PDIF or AES/EBU. Connecting an L6 LINK device to Helix automatically disables S/PDIF out. USB audio is not affected by this setting.”

 

AFAIK, this has always been the case right from the launch - it hasn’t changed.You can still use all the available USB channels for audio, but you do not like that option.

 

2 hours ago, LesSand said:

I wish I could digitize my ears and listen to zeros and ones. (-:

 

Note: the sound of ones and zeros is not very pleasant.

 

Hope this help/makes sense.

Edited February 26, 2022 by datacommando
Added note

[LesSand]

Few things I inconvenient, analog audio inputs not withstanding:

 

I like tweaking my sounds and especially tracking guitars using the PowerCab for the amp-in-the-room feel. This is made extra convenient because I record the Helix guitar signal sans cab - I rely a lot more on IRs and other cab sims in the box.

 

However, when I switch the PC on, I lose the S/PDIF link between the Helix and the Clarett.

 

At such times, I switch the Logic Pro audio input interface to Helix USB, and thus can still record Helix digital audio. I find the back and forth inconvenient, nonetheless.

 

Other times, however, I do prefer to track while listening to the full mix on headphones (or monitors). When I do that, I have been able to feel the latency when monitoring the Helix USB input. That doesn’t happen when I use the Clarett for all I/O in Logic - the Clarett allows me to internally route the Helix digital signal straight to whatever monitoring channel I’m using (monitor speakers or headphones).

 

Finally, there will be a rackmount Torpedo soon in here at home sitting between the Helix and the Clarett (so I can also record an old TA-30 that I love), so now even more so my cab simulation will be happening outside the Helix box.

 

With the Torpedo, I will at least be able to not use Clarett analog inputs (I have a bunch of mics and other stuff permanently hooked up to them). I hope the Torpedo A-D conversion is as bad*ss as the Helix’s, but I’m actually less sensitive about that, and more about the ridiculous amount of RF interference I have around me. I’ve had RF issues in the past in this location even when using some decent cables.

So concerns with RF, latency and frequently switching across audio devices are my biggest motivations for staying as much as possible in the digital domain and have as static as possible a routing.

[LesSand]

32 minutes ago, datacommando said:

You seem to be surprised, and somewhat annoyed, by that the fact that you can only use the S/PDIF, or the L6 LINK, but not both simultaneously.

 

Surprised, not at all. ☺️ Annoyed… Yes? Maybe? I was less focused on my feelings, and more in solving the problem. ☺️ And right you are, this is very clearly stated in the manual, which was very helpful of Line 6. 

 

I also suspect this is not the kind of limitation that can be resolved via software with the current hardware, hence me not even feeling very motivated to add an entry in IdeaScale.

 

 

32 minutes ago, datacommando said:

Note: the sound of ones and zeros is not very pleasant.

 

Man, I took the blue pill - I’m firmly attached to the Matrix! What do you mean zeros and ones sound bad? Don’t you miss the sweet sound of a 28.8 mbps modem?? lol

 

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, LesSand said:

Don’t you miss the sweet sound of a 28.8 mbps modem?

Where I live, some people used to dance to the sound of fax machines and car alarms. ;-)

 

Oh, yeah - 28.8 mbps - luxury! I think I still have a US Robotics 14400 Sportster somewhere round here.

Edited February 27, 2022 by datacommando
Added text