Problem Copying a preset on a Helix LT

[franstone]

First off, I'm using a Helix LT ver 3.50 and HX Edit ver 3.51 under MacOS High Sierra 10.13.6. I created a preset with four Snapshots (SS) and four effects. The preset works exactly as I created it - no issues. I Copied and Pasted the preset into an empty preset to make some minor changes to my Volume/Gain block. While using the copied preset, SS 1 sounds and works correctly. The volume levels on Snapshots 2, 3, and 4 are very low (less than 50% of SS 1) and are somewhat distorted (they should be clean). The strange thing is when I switch to back SS 1, the volume drops and it is also distorted. I went through the copied preset block by block, and the settings looks the same. I tried Exporting and Importing the original preset with the same results. Tried shutting down HX and rebooting my computer with the same results. I can't figure this out. I've had my HX for about four years now and have never encountered this. Any help is appreciated. 

[silverhead]

Is this only happening with the one preset or is it a general problem with all presets? If only one, can you attach the preset here so that others can test it?

[theElevators]

Do you have a volume pedal in the presets?

[franstone]

I don't have a problem copying different presets. I've attached the original and the copy "cp".

 

I don't have a volume pedal in the preset. I do have a Volume/Gain block (for solo boost) assigned to a foot switch in every Snapshot.

 

Thanks

HumanSoldClnOD.hlx HumanSoldClnODcp.hlx

[franstone]

I just noticed that the size of the original 77.07kB and the copy 76.95kB are slightly different.

[HonestOpinion]

On 1/11/2023 at 12:52 PM, franstone said:

I just noticed that the size of the original 77.07kB and the copy 76.95kB are slightly different.

 

I ran an FC file compare command ('diff' for Windows) and although it is possible it didn't compare the files properly, it does show many differences in the 'FC' output between the two. Most of the differences seem to be on the same keyword/value pairs in different sections of the Json file. One thing that struck me is the following, which I did verify as a difference both in the FC output and the files themselves, don't know how significant it is but it looks like it could be although "false" and "0" might be equivalent. Still interesting that they use different text:

***** HumanSoldClnOD.hlx
 1563:              "@position" : 99,
 1564:              "@behavior" : 0
 1565:            },
***** HUMANSOLDCLNODCP.HLX
 1563:              "@position" : 99,
 1564:              "@behavior" : false
 1565:            },
*****

 

Or this, the keyword/pair that occurs throughout the file.

***** HumanSoldClnOD.hlx
  768:                  "@fs_enabled" : false,
  769:                  "@value" : 0.3000030517578125
  770:                }
***** HUMANSOLDCLNODCP.HLX
  768:                  "@fs_enabled" : false,
  769:                  "@value" : 0
  770:                }
*****

 

Interesting that the copied preset is a different size with different content. Are you sure you didn't modify one of the presets inadvertently before exporting them?  Have you restarted your LT since you copied and pasted the preset. Copied presets often (always?) do a rebuild after the next restart. Wonder if this would render them both identical and the same size? I would test with a fresh copy and paste first and then immediate restart. Test the size of the two files after this test. Don't have my Helix out of its backpack at the moment or I would do some copy/paste tests myself.

 

Was also ruminating on whether there could be a global setting that might affect the contents of the saved file such as for example, setting 'EXP 2 Pedal Position' = 'Per Preset' and then moving the expression pedal before the export.

 

Lastly, did you do a backup and restore after your last firmware/editor upgrade? All kinds of weirdness can occur down the line without this step.

[sykes1000]

I can confirm that this behaviour also exists with my LT. I am up to date with the firmware and HX Edit.

It is totally random when this happens but it does happen reguarly and was happening before the last 3.5 & 3.61 updates.

I do reboot the Helix after making changes so that it can rebuild before I make a backup of the preset.

 

With me the problem is:

1. copying or dragging presets from on preset location to another within HX Edit = certain settings i.e. noise gate settings, delay settings, cab settings, volume settings etc... randomly change for the worse on various snapshots within the preset.

2. Importing a preset from PC to another preset location on the Helix = certain settings i.e. noise gate settings, delay settings, cab settings, volume settings etc... randomly change for the worse on various snapshots within the preset.

 

I open the files with Notepad++ and do a compare between two copies and can see that random settings have been changed just by exporting the file. I change the settings back to how they should be in Notepad++ and then import them back into Helix. Then the settings have changed back for the worse again and all the corrections are gone.

 

I am doing all of this within HX Edit 3.61. I am running Windows 11.

 

The only way to fix this for me is to go through all the blocks and see where the settings have been changed and make ammendments. :(

[theElevators]

 

I will repeat myself: firmware 3.11 has no such issues.  Everything after it, e.g. 3.6 has such bugs, which I suspect are mainly with HX Edit, not the Helix itself.  Things do not get copied correctly.... editing one preset affects the other one. 

 

If you want stability, downgrade to 3.11.  If you have to have the new dual cabs and a handful of effects, then unfortunately you're stuck with this, until Line 6 fixes these bugs... at some point... But first you need to convince them that this is a bug, because people will say "I don't have such issues, works fine for me".

 

 

[draven777]

On 9/16/2023 at 2:08 AM, sykes1000 said:

I can confirm that this behaviour also exists with my LT. I am up to date with the firmware and HX Edit.

It is totally random when this happens but it does happen reguarly and was happening before the last 3.5 & 3.61 updates.

I do reboot the Helix after making changes so that it can rebuild before I make a backup of the preset.

 

With me the problem is:

1. copying or dragging presets from on preset location to another within HX Edit = certain settings i.e. noise gate settings, delay settings, cab settings, volume settings etc... randomly change for the worse on various snapshots within the preset.

2. Importing a preset from PC to another preset location on the Helix = certain settings i.e. noise gate settings, delay settings, cab settings, volume settings etc... randomly change for the worse on various snapshots within the preset.

 

I open the files with Notepad++ and do a compare between two copies and can see that random settings have been changed just by exporting the file. I change the settings back to how they should be in Notepad++ and then import them back into Helix. Then the settings have changed back for the worse again and all the corrections are gone.

 

I am doing all of this within HX Edit 3.61. I am running Windows 11.

 

The only way to fix this for me is to go through all the blocks and see where the settings have been changed and make ammendments. :(

 I agree,  this happens to me more than it should.  I'll cop a preset, paste it in a new bank, and there is a significant volume difference.   then I have to jack up the channel volume on the amps up or down, to match.  this 100% should NOT be a thing.  

[theElevators]

On 10/16/2023 at 5:13 AM, draven777 said:

 I agree,  this happens to me more than it should.  I'll cop a preset, paste it in a new bank, and there is a significant volume difference.   then I have to jack up the channel volume on the amps up or down, to match.  this 100% should NOT be a thing.  

Therefore, my recommendation is to downgrade to 3.11.  As somebody who has spent countless hours dialing in my presets, I do not want to have my sounds get broken without me knowing it, only to find out that something has changed during a show.  Dual cabs, a handful of new amps/effects, legacy synths are cool and all, but what good is it if you constantly risk having your sounds change? 

 

I've been using 3.11 ever since it came out and IMO it's the most stable, most bug-free version of the firmware.  I run it on both LT and Floor and don't plan on upgrading until I'm dead sure this bug has been fixed. 

[PaulTBaker]

wow, this is very interesting.  I have not noticed this behavior and have do a lot of copying of presets.  I am up to date on the all the versions.

[silverhead]

On 10/18/2023 at 1:25 PM, PaulTBaker said:

wow, this is very interesting.  I have not noticed this behavior and have do a lot of copying of presets.  I am up to date on the all the versions.

I also find it surprising and haven’t noticed it with my Helix Rack. Seems like this would be shared code among the Helix devices but perhaps not.

 

I’m wondering if it’s a settings thing with the Volume or other pedal assignment, or even a Vol knob setting with a Variax. Sometimes settings are such that the physical position of the pedal or knob when switching presets (or copy/pasting them?) matters, or not as the case may be. I can see some settings causing unexpected behaviours.

 

Of course it may indeed be an actual bug. I don’t see any mention in this thread of anyone opening a support ticket to get a response from Line 6. Perhaps someone experiencing the problem should do that and report back?

[draven777]

  since my last post, I have no update. I just kind of matched everything by switching volumes on presets, even though the settings have always been the same via copy and paste.   One thing I am curious on, is when you drop a new signal path in, you know when you pull a block down and it makes a whole new "signal line" that eventually meets up with your original signal path, but you can move the starting and end points.   Forgive the stupid question's, but I wonder if making an additional signal path adds or takes away some volume?  what is everyone's thought on this? 

[theElevators]

Oh yes!  Adding a parallel path (even with  block that is always bypassed) will have your volume drop. Remove that path and the volume jumps up. 

[datacommando]

On 10/24/2023 at 9:49 AM, draven777 said:

 One thing I am curious on, is when you drop a new signal path in, you know when you pull a block down and it makes a whole new "signal line" that eventually meets up with your original signal path, but you can move the starting and end points.   Forgive the stupid question's, but I wonder if making an additional signal path adds or takes away some volume?  what is everyone's thought on this? 

Hi,

 

Here is the explanation for the difference in level when a path is split. It involves a little bit of science named Pan Law.
 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[PaulTBaker]

yep, Pan's law... of course I would have never remembered that, or even known about without the great people on the site.  So much knowledge is shared on this site.  it is great.... and thank you!

 

bottom line (i think) in answering your question is that it will add 3db to your total signal path, which makes it louder.  You can see that in the merge block from the parallel.