Stomp XL USB usage question

[coachz]

Can you guys offer some insight on the options for using the USB recording ?   I see lots of youtube videos with people recording guitar through usb on helix but none with actual songs.  Just guitar and that's it.  I'm making albums here and was hoping this could be integrated into the process.

 

I have win11 with an RME 9652 and Digimax FS I/O that I use in Reaper.   With Helix USB I can't use RME and Helix USB at the same time though.  How am I supposed to record a keyboard player, playback the song while also recording the guitar with re-amping capability?  ASIO has huge latency so is no go.   I'm currently using Helix Native as a workaround but that requires going through my Digimax FS I/O which is not as good as the Stomp XL inputs.  So what is the correct setup please ?

 

Thanks for any ideas.

[rd2rk]

To use your existing interfaces, get a MAC and set them up as an aggregate device.

 

I hate MACs. This is how I do it:

 

Amazon.com: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen USB Audio Interface, for Producers, Musicians, Bands, Content Creators — High-Fidelity, Studio Quality Recording, and All the Software You Need to Record : Everything Else

 

There are many similar interfaces, take your pick.

[silverhead]

In Windows there is no aggregate device capability as described by rd2rk. The ASIO a protocol requires that a single audio interface device be used for both input and output. Hence you should configure your DAW to use the HX stomp XL and its ASIO driver as the audio input/output device. Don’t use any other ASIO device connected to your computer while using your DAW. Connecting your speakers/monitors to the Stomp XL audio outputs provides latency free monitoring.
 

You can connect the keyboard audio outputs to the stereo Return/Aux inputs of the Stomp XL. You can record this dry (no processing) using the Record Source USB 7/8 for the DAW track. Connect your guitar to the Input L(mono) Input and record the guitar’s processed output using USB 1/2 in your DAW track, and record the dry guitar using USB 5. You can record all three tracks simultaneously and then playback all recorded tracks independently, and reamp the dry guitar track as desired.

 

For recording the outputs of other (non-guitar) audio devices you can use both the stereo Inputs and Return/Aux In inputs simultaneously. Using the Input jacks allows you to select the inputs for processing in the Stomp preset. For instance, you could record a second keyboard, or a drum machine, etc. For full details read the manual  chapter titled USB Audio.

[coachz]

That's really a bummer that Windows sucks so bad. After spending thousands on a new 7950X computer an rme audio card and digimax interfaces, going to a Mac is not an option. It's a shame that there's no easy way to reamp it in Windows and have it integrated into recording with other musicians without the terrible latency ASIO requires.  Well thanks for the reply anyways

[rd2rk]

On 5/30/2023 at 10:29 AM, coachz said:

That's really a bummer that Windows sucks so bad. After spending thousands on a new 7950X computer an rme audio card and digimax interfaces, going to a Mac is not an option. It's a shame that there's no easy way to reamp it in Windows and have it integrated into recording with other musicians without the terrible latency ASIO requires.  Well thanks for the reply anyways

 

You spent thousands on a computer and interfaces that won't do the job you need them to do and you blame WINDOWS and ASIO???

 

Get real!

 

You didn't do your research prior to your purchase.

 

You still don't have a clue how any of this works!

 

ASIO does not create excessive latency. Unless you also wasted a lot of money on an Nvidia video card (though that's necessary if you're doing ToneX captures, in which case you need 2 video cards and enable the one whose functions you need), you should be able to get <>2ms latency from that computer.

 

What does the video card have to do with audio? Geek stuff, google it.

 

You bought an RME interface because "IT'S the BESTEST in the WHOLE WORLD!"

If you'd bought the Digimax with ADAT and the RME with ADAT (you didn't specify the models, it matters) you could use them together and with ANY OS and have all the I/O you need.

 

As for the limitations of the Stomp XL, if I needed to carry 4x8 sheets of plywood I wouldn't have bought a KIA.

The Helix Floor and Rack have SPDIF connectors (also AES/EBU on the Rack). That's how I connect my Floor to my Scarlett 18i20.

I have no shortage of I/O (and ADAT for expansion) and get 7.6ms RTL (below the generally accepted 10ms threshold of perception), mostly because my computer is an ancient i7 laptop. If it mattered (or even if I just had that kind of money - being retired has drawbacks) I'd spend a bunch on a high-end box like yours.

 

You screwed up. Suck it up buttercup!

 

So, when you get over being pi$$ed at me here's what you do - dump your fancy interfaces and get something like I suggested. Make sure it has ADAT connectivity for future I/O expansion. FWIW - most people who buy those high-end AIs do so because of the pre-amp specs. Reality - humans can't hear the difference between an RME pre and the pre-amps in Focusrite or even BEHRINGER interfaces. Golden-eared producer types MAYBE, but everybody else is FOS. Same goes for 2ms vs 4ms latency.

 

To get a DI input for re-amping with Native or whatever place a SEND block first in the signal chain. Or, if you don't need the auto-impedance function, just get an A/B/Y box. Or, if you can swing it, get a Floor or Rack+Controller. Then you can send processed (mono) and DI signals on separate digital channels.

[coachz]

very unprofessional

[rd2rk]

On 5/30/2023 at 12:21 PM, coachz said:

very unprofessional

 

First, I'm not a professional, and this is not a forum for professionals.

Second, blaming your self-chosen TOOLS is unprofessional and immature.

Third, if you whine a bunch of BS on a public forum you should expect to be called on it.

Lastly, I also made real world practical suggestions for how to get the results you desire.

That IS professional.

 

If your feelings are hurt by any of that, it's your problem. I'm not at all sorry.

As I said, suck it up buttercup.

[psarkissian]

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[PierM]

On 5/30/2023 at 6:29 PM, coachz said:

That's really a bummer that Windows sucks so bad. After spending thousands on a new 7950X computer an rme audio card and digimax interfaces, going to a Mac is not an option. It's a shame that there's no easy way to reamp it in Windows and have it integrated into recording with other musicians without the terrible latency ASIO requires.  Well thanks for the reply anyways

 

Read the silverhead answer. He gave you a solution. ;)

 

 

 

 

[coachz]

Thank you for the reply. Unfortunately it would be a too cumbersome to keep going back and forth between using the stomp xl outputs and the digimax.  I'll just keep using the helix native but thanks.

[psarkissian]

Yes,... silverhead is tech and knows these things.

 

 

[DunedinDragon]

This is all so silly that it's almost laughable.  I record daily through my Helix which is connected via USB to my Windows 10 computer.  In addition I have two separate keyboards (88 key electronic stage piano and a 48 key MIDI controller keyboard) connected via separate USB ports to a hub connected to my Windows computer.  My Helix serves as my general audio interface and that's where my studio speakers are connected as well as my headphones.  That's the entirety of my setup and I do tons of multiple track projects weekly consisting of multiple guitar, bass, banjo tracks along with pianos, organs, Fender Rhodes, Wurlitzer piano, string sections, horn sections, drums, 244 piece orchestra, harmonicas, choirs, pedal steel, country fiddle, a wide array of synthesizers...and tons more.  There's no fancy hardware other than my Helix with a USB connection and a powered USB hub for any other instruments I need to record.  I configure my DAW to work with my Helix ASIO and everything just works with no serious latency.

 

Honestly the issue here is thinking you need to have a bunch of extraneous physical hardware to do any kind of serious recording and that's simply not true at all.

[coachz]

What is your round trip latency using loopback test?  Since we are recording guitars 10% of our time, leaving the stomp xl on all the time makes less sense than using the existing PreSonus digimax FS interface and rme card.  I understand that others may be fine with this setup but I'm pretty sure my current latency will be lower.

[PierM]

On 6/1/2023 at 12:17 PM, coachz said:

What is your round trip latency using loopback test?  Since we are recording guitars 10% of our time, leaving the stomp xl on all the time makes less sense than using the existing PreSonus digimax FS interface and rme card.  I understand that others may be fine with this setup but I'm pretty sure my current latency will be lower.

 

Helix windows drivers aren't really optimised for live VST/DAW, so the latency can be a problem for some people (like me).

 

Since I moved to Mac Im no longer using L6 drivers, and only going with the Apple core audio and get a brilliant 3.6ms of RLT against almost 8ms with windows (and l6 drivers) at sampling/buffer parity. Also no more click and pops due random DPCs. 

 

I believe you need to find your priorities and build your own setup based on that. Native is a great solution if you want Helix tones and keep using your preferred audio interface with better drivers for live VST, such those from RME. On the other hand, if for some reason you really can't do without the auto impedance circuit offered by the Helix/HX (which is the core difference with any other standard audio interface out there), and you also need low latency round trip, then I'd consider moving to Mac.

 

Also moving to Mac means not worrying much about the never ending OS optimisation for DAW usage that you must do on a PC. On my MacBook pro, I just turn off the WiFi, and it's ready to go. No hassle. 

 

 

[coachz]

Agreed.  I'm using native as my best setup atm.   I wanted to use helix because I assume the front end input is more optimized for guitar than my digimax.  Thanks

[PierM]

On 6/1/2023 at 12:56 PM, coachz said:

Agreed.  I'm using native as my best setup atm.   I wanted to use helix because I assume the front end input is more optimized for guitar than my digimax.  Thanks

 

Unfortunately that impedance circuit and the preamp on the Helix/HX does the miracle IME. I can really feel and hear the difference, especially in the dynamics available within the headroom offered by the hardware vs plugin. At input level parity, and same preset, the Helix hardware gives me the extra headroom I need, especially for the cleans that are more nervous with transients. That difference is also changing the way the amp block is reacting to the input driving its "tube" algorithm. Tried lot of audio interfaces, never managed to get the same result as with the Helix hardware. That's my experience with my tones and my guitars. So experience may vary. :) 

 

Would be really awesome to see a RME with something similar. :)