How about a slim mode for the Helix?

[katerlouis]

I haven't really been playing guitar the last 2-3 years; my Helix is on 3.0.1 - with 3.6 out, there is so fricking much new... that I'm simply overwhelmed. I kinda have been before as well and never really "got my sound" on it; I'm a noob and absolutely not good at dialing in sound. But the sheer amount of options and combinations always hindered me. I always got stuck in AB testing a bazillion configurations. Unfortunately the Helix makes this very easy to do with momentary snapshots and so on. 

 

You might say: well then the Helix just isn't for you. But... why couldn't it? The devs have put so much work into it over the years. The stuff it has and can do has probably tripled since 2017. 

 

What would you guys think about a slim, trimmed down user interface? Just select your amp and choose between a few effects in predefined slots. No fiddling around with cabs, mics and mic placements. I'd love to let experts choose tried and true combinations that just sound good out of the box. 

 

Or maybe not even a new UI, but just really good "new factory presets" - I've never really got a factory preset that sounded good.

 

Only 2 or 3 patches really "spoke to me" over the years; that feeling where you just wanted to noodle a bit and all of a sudden its 4 hours later and you still can't let go, because that sound just grabs me.

 

Thrilled to hear your thoughts. And please be gentle- I'm just a dude who's trying to find his sound and get back into guitar playing.

[themetallikid]

On 8/23/2023 at 7:30 AM, katerlouis said:

I haven't really been playing guitar the last 2-3 years; my Helix is on 3.0.1 - with 3.6 out, there is so fricking much new... that I'm simply overwhelmed. I kinda have been before as well and never really "got my sound" on it; I'm a noob and absolutely not good at dialing in sound. But the sheer amount of options and combinations always hindered me. I always got stuck in AB testing a bazillion configurations. Unfortunately the Helix makes this very easy to do with momentary snapshots and so on. 

 

You might say: well then the Helix just isn't for you. But... why couldn't it? The devs have put so much work into it over the years. The stuff it has and can do has probably tripled since 2017. 

 

What would you guys think about a slim, trimmed down user interface? Just select your amp and choose between a few effects in predefined slots. No fiddling around with cabs, mics and mic placements. I'd love to let experts choose tried and true combinations that just sound good out of the box. 

 

Or maybe not even a new UI, but just really good "new factory presets" - I've never really got a factory preset that sounded good.

 

Only 2 or 3 patches really "spoke to me" over the years; that feeling where you just wanted to noodle a bit and all of a sudden its 4 hours later and you still can't let go, because that sound just grabs me.

 

Thrilled to hear your thoughts. And please be gentle- I'm just a dude who's trying to find his sound and get back into guitar playing.

 

some of these things can be addressed by having a more streamlined approach to building presets.  If you use the Amp & Cab block, you'll get the amp paired with the proper matching cab/mic.  You can edit the mic for sure, with the 3.5 update that is super powerful and not overly daunting, especially if you leave the speaker/cab aspect alone.   With the amp settings, most of the defaults are set pretty well, but if they arent, dial in the amp how you like, and then save it as a user default.  Next time you bring that amp up, it'll come up with that exact amp/cab/mic settings.  problem solved there.  

 

On a side note, nothing will sound good 'out of the box'.....typically.  Different player, guitar, monitoring system (studio monitors, wedge, powered cab, combo amp power section, headphones) are all different.  So even if I sound like EVH on my systems and settings, that same preset in your environment could sound like a leprechaun farting on a mushroom.  

 

You can design only a few presets and work off of that.  If you go with one of the smaller HX units, then you may need more presets to address your sound needs, but the LT and Floor are super powerful and you can easily throw a few sounds into a preset at once, depending on how many effects you want.  But there is nothing stopping you from doing a kitchen sink preset built around a genre's typical tones in a single preset, with a few stomps or snapshots to change amps/effects.  

 

 

I did this with the soldano SLO amps as a good kitchen sink for those random songs my band gets asked to play that I dont program a preset for the song specifically.  I have 5 ranges in gain structure, I have a lead boost button (OD, delay, volume boost), chorus, pre-amp compressor effect.  works great.

 

[DunedinDragon]

I agree with @themetallikid.  Over the years the Helix has had numerous improvements in making things simple in terms of creating presets, the most prominent of which are the favorites.  By selectively using favorites along with a standard preset template I've cut my preset development time to 1/3 of what it used to be.  It's all a matter of thinking about your particular workflow and process and using the tools that are already there rather than starting off with a blank slate every time.

[themetallikid]

On 8/23/2023 at 9:40 AM, DunedinDragon said:

I agree with @themetallikid.  Over the years the Helix has had numerous improvements in making things simple in terms of creating presets, the most prominent of which are the favorites.  By selectively using favorites along with a standard preset template I've cut my preset development time to 1/3 of what it used to be.  It's all a matter of thinking about your particular workflow and process and using the tools that are already there rather than starting off with a blank slate every time.

I agree.  My buddy picked up a Helix because of my use and he just can't seem to find the time to sit down and program a preset per song like I do for our setlist.  However, once you have your favorite blocks or user defaults set, I can program a fully function 4 or 5 snapshot preset (using HX Edit mind you, not that I couldnt do it on the unit, but HX Edit is just so much faster) in about 10 minutes, and that is being generous on the time, i doubt it even takes a full 5 minutes.  

 

Any carpenter will tell you that its impossible to build a house when your tools and materials are scattered all over the yard, garage, house.  However, Line 6 has done a great job organizing the tools in the garage and tool box, and they continue to drop off materials in neat piles on the driveway and yard.  So it takes minimal time to build your new practice space in the backyard.  

 

Do the work up front, set yourself up for success and the payoff lasts down the road.   If you just expect to plug and play and the EVH patch to be gig-able....then i'd suggest moving on to something else as even if me and DunedinDragon swap presets that are 'perfect'....we would probably almost be better off creating our own presets that accomplish the same tone rather than tweaking someone else's settings and blocks. 

[datacommando]

On 8/23/2023 at 1:30 PM, katerlouis said:

I haven't really been playing guitar the last 2-3 years; my Helix is on 3.0.1 - with 3.6 out, there is so fricking much new... that I'm simply overwhelmed. I kinda have been before as well and never really "got my sound" on it; I'm a noob and absolutely not good at dialing in sound. But the sheer amount of options and combinations always hindered me. I always got stuck in AB testing a bazillion configurations. Unfortunately the Helix makes this very easy to do with momentary snapshots and so on. 

 

You might say: well then the Helix just isn't for you. But... why couldn't it? The devs have put so much work into it over the years. The stuff it has and can do has probably tripled since 2017. 

 

What would you guys think about a slim, trimmed down user interface? Just select your amp and choose between a few effects in predefined slots. No fiddling around with cabs, mics and mic placements. I'd love to let experts choose tried and true combinations that just sound good out of the box. 

 

Or maybe not even a new UI, but just really good "new factory presets" - I've never really got a factory preset that sounded good.

 

Only 2 or 3 patches really "spoke to me" over the years; that feeling where you just wanted to noodle a bit and all of a sudden its 4 hours later and you still can't let go, because that sound just grabs me.

 

Thrilled to hear your thoughts. And please be gentle- I'm just a dude who's trying to find his sound and get back into guitar playing.

 

You may not be thrilled to hear this, but…

 

I am always slightly puzzled by posts like this. You have stated “well then the Helix just isn't for you”, but you did buy it, and I guess you researched what it was, and what it did before parting with your money. You also say that you are “a noob and absolutely not good at dialing in sound”, and it also appears that you are overwhelmed by “option paralysis”. This rather begs the question, what was your reason for wanting a Helix? Plus, no matter how many options are available, you don’t have to use them all. Some folks have done gigs using only a couple of presets!

 

At the time you bought your Helix, if you could have only bought a regular amp combo, or amp and cab, what would it have been? Your decision would most likely have been based on what type of music you were wanting to play. Possibly a Fender for Country and clean tones, or an EVH 5150 for full on rock and metal? ITRW, whatever amp (tube or transistor) you got, you would still have been a “noob” and would have to learn how to get the best out of it. Everybody has to start somewhere, therefore your best bet is to learn how to create the tone you want your Helix to provide. Lots of UChoob video with walkthrough examples from people in the know, Jason Sadites is a prime example. 

 

Your comment about “fiddling around with cabs, mics and mic placements”, is truly astonishing! It’s all that fiddling around that makes the sound work, moving a mic just one inch in any direction can transform the tone. 

 

Furthermore, “What would you guys think about a slim, trimmed down user interface? Just select your amp and choose between a few effects in predefined slots”. That’s something we probably don’t have to think about, because those nice folks at Line 6 released the POD Go three years ago. All the Helix tone, at half the price and simplified interface.

 

Oh, yeah - “I've never really got a factory preset that sounded good”. For reasons given in these forums many, many times over - you never will, unless you are the person who created it. They are all starting points for your own stuff. 

 

After your 2-3 year break, it maybe time to put your learning head on.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[theElevators]

If the Helix overwhelms you, I would recommend working your way up to the Helix... 

 

Pod Go is that slimmed-down simplified Helix, that you are asking about.  I actually got it as a backup, as a slimmed down solution.  It has literally everything.  Heck, if Pod Go was around back in 2019, I would have gotten it for myself instead of the Helix.  It has all the things that most people would need to play gigs, all the stuff is already laid out, and it actually forces you to use certain things in your signal chain, such as an EQ, Amp, Cab, volume, wah.  I have a little side-project and we have a gig in a few weeks, so I made it a point to build all my presets on the Pod GO. 

 

As far as working your way up, I'm a pretty technical guy -- I'm a software developer by day.  I started gradually incorporating the digital technology into my rig.  First, I got a small Zoom digital box that gave me certain sounds.  Then 4 years later I got Boss MS-3 effects processor (slightly more complicated, with more buttons).  And finally 2.5 years later I went and switched over to the Helix as an all-in-one solution.  It's just way too complicated, and difficult to wrap your brain around this thing right away.  Or especially if people have never used real analog gear, those people really don't know what they are looking for.  My friend got himself an HX Stomp and he created a preset that sounded really bad.  Well, turned out he didn't realize he had to use an amp/cab block! 

 

When I was transitioning my sounds into the Helix, I took my rig and replaced one piece at a time.  First the distortion, then my delays/EQ... and finally the amp.  It is really helpful to do A/B comparison to see how your new gear sounds as compared to the old stuff.  So I would run my sound like this: guitar->pedalboard->Helix->combo amp.  I took each component and tried to find the best-sounding replacement, you get my point?

 

Then when my sounds were all there, as I was reading the manual and watching videos, I realized there are lots of cool little tricks I can do on the Helix, which were not possible for me at any point in time in the past... well unless I got the Bradshaw rig.  Cool things like spillover delay, harmonization, stereo sounds, pre-determined tempo for effects in my numerous presets. 

 

So that's my advice: start simple.  Figure out what you need.  Nobody uses every single bell and whistle in any piece of gear...

[katerlouis]

I bought the Helix back in 2017 after playing in a cover band for a few months. What has drawn me into this was the flexibility of it, the ease of use / great usability and the reputation of great sound quality. I tried Spider V before but was never happy, because I was a noob then as well and I was pretty much never satisfied. With the Helix I noticed a significant improvement already, although I still couldn't really get close to how Nirvana, Red Hot Chili Peppers, ACDC etc. sounds.

 

A lot has changed since then, including my standards and requirement. I no longer want to recreate what I am playing, but find my own way, style and sound of playing it. Even better would be: Find a tone that grabs me so much, that I can't stop playing and eventually inspires me to work on original music.

 

I have a bit of a GAS problem, so while I obviously have looked left, right and center for other devices with way less options, direct controls, no need for presets, snapshots etc. – then again... I do have the Helix and have made some pretty crazy (for me at least) things happen with it in terms of nerdy configurations including external gear, loopers, midi going in and out, extra paddels seemlessly transitioning between signal paths to blend some stuff in. So why not keep what I have and learn to use it. 

 

So I gave it another shot with the 3.6 update. And the biggest strengths of the Helix again became detremental to my tone creation. Just by going through all the new factory presets, I got lost... my untrained ear couldn't hear any nuances anymore; all the comparing fatigued me and sucked out the fun of playing. 

 

I believe (or hope) that if I have one thing with a lot fewer options, but very good base quality, that I will learn to hear details, get a feel for what the limited options I have actually do and finally tame that beast and learn to use all the things I learn to my advantage.

 

Right now I feel like learning to cook without knowing anything about the ingredients or what goes well together. It feels vital to understand how things influence each other but that sooo hard to learn when each block has multiple pages of settings. 

 

I've watched countless tutorials on tone creation, recipes, templates, best practices... but in the end this all felt like chores and just work that lead no where– Like I'm running in circles. Now I feel like this approach was destined to fail all along. So much comes down to taste and understanding your guitar, your pick, your playing style... lots of good tips in those videos, but highly subjective and in the end gotten me nowhere.

 

On 8/23/2023 at 7:33 PM, datacommando said:

That’s something we probably don’t have to think about, because those nice folks at Line 6 released the POD Go three years ago. All the Helix tone, at half the price and simplified interface.

Interesting. I would've thought that the quality of sounds on POD is not as good as on Helix. I'm gonna look into that option.

 

On 8/23/2023 at 7:33 PM, datacommando said:

After your 2-3 year break, it maybe time to put your learning head on.

But How? I would love nothing more than to see the Matrix; both knowing what I want and how to get there.

 

I had a similar "crisis" in terms of guitars. For said cover band I wanted to buy my first "proper guitar" – When I tried the Chapman ML3 Bea (Rabea Massads first signature model) I was just mesmerized; the neck humbucker to this day gives me goosebumps. 

 

I feel that learning would come easier with limited options and a more hands on interface (actual knobs with out flicking through pages, dealing with a joystick)

 

This got a bit off-topic; I appreciate your help and do understand that things should stay Helix related. Because I do want to give it another shot, maybe you have some practical tips on simplifying things.

 

I really wish to find the blue pill inside the Helix and enter the Matrix.

 

But if you have other specific recommendations in mind, I'd be up for that as well. 

[themetallikid]

For my needs, factory presets are useless.  There was a factory setlist that went through the amps, which i spent about 2 days going through and deleting out the effects (or just bypassing them) and leaving the amp/cab.   If they were separate blocks or the single block I dont remember.  However, i literally went through all the amps in the Helix and dialed them in to various gain stages, found out what I liked that amp to do best, and saved it as a user default (not a favorite).  Yes tedious, however, if you utilize the looper trick (if you dont know that one, its where you put a looper at the beginning of your chain, record your guitar and then that allows you to tweak the amp/cab without having to stop playing to adjust.  the Looper is like a friend playing for you) and it didnt take long to dial in the amp variously. 

 

For your case, here is what I would do.  And remember get your tools in order and it's much easier to build a house.

 

1) create a template.  For your purpose, I would create a blank preset.  Set up your typical preset flow.  For me, line 1 input is guitar, line 1 output is set to line 2, line 2 output is set to -4db and multi as the output option.  I would add the looper block first in the chain, and assign the bypass parameter to a footswitch.  I would add an Amp +Cab Block at the end of line 1 (or first block on line 2).  This allows you to add pre/post effects easily DSP wise. Save this as Template or something easy.

 

2) record your typical playing style into the looper with the amp/cab block(s) bypassed so you just hear the straight through guitar.  I usually try to cover a variety of play styles when doing this.  I'll pick some clean-ish type stuff, bang some chords, palm mute some chords as well as play a few bluesy/rock type lead passes.  This lets me hear the most without having to re-record different things.  

 

3) while the looper is repeating this back to you, activate your amp/cab blocks (if separate, do your cab block first so  you dont get the raw amp sound, harsh and just ugly).  You can literally start at the first amp in the helix, tweak just the usual amp settings (gain, bass, mids, treble, presence).  However try to keep volumes even so adjusting the master volume (affects tone) and channel volume (does NOT affect tone will need to work cooperatively to do this.  Do it now, so that your user defaults are relatively balanced, or you'll need to do this later when you create presets.  remember what I said earlier about organizing tools early?

 

4) when you get a tone you like, there are two approaches.  If you want a one-trick pony tone for each amp.....save it as a user default.  Next time you call up that amp, you got YOUR tone.  If you want to use an amp to do multiple tones (Deluxe, AC30 type stuff) then I'd suggest saving the block as a user favorite, you can name it as something like Deluxe Clean, Deluxe Pushed, Deluxed Ballz, lol.   Again, next time you build a preset, select blocks from the favorites folder and you have YOUR tone.  

 

Those 4 steps can be overwhelming in volume, but really they are foundationally what you need to build upon further.  You can do the same thing with effects and such as well.  I do that with all my effects.  Being in a cover band with over 100 songs available.  I create a preset per song, i use my user favorites that i've saved.  if I save it as a different setting, i save it as a different user favorite.  

 

Hope that helps!

[DunedinDragon]

On 8/24/2023 at 8:02 AM, katerlouis said:

 

I have a bit of a GAS problem, so while I obviously have looked left, right and center for other devices with way less options, direct controls, no need for presets, snapshots etc. – then again... I do have the Helix and have made some pretty crazy (for me at least) things happen with it in terms of nerdy configurations including external gear, loopers, midi going in and out, extra paddels seemlessly transitioning between signal paths to blend some stuff in. So why not keep what I have and learn to use it. 

 

So I gave it another shot with the 3.6 update. And the biggest strengths of the Helix again became detremental to my tone creation. Just by going through all the new factory presets, I got lost... my untrained ear couldn't hear any nuances anymore; all the comparing fatigued me and sucked out the fun of playing. 

 

 

This got a bit off-topic; I appreciate your help and do understand that things should stay Helix related. Because I do want to give it another shot, maybe you have some practical tips on simplifying things.

 

It just sounds to me like you have a big problem with paralysis by analysis.  Clearly you don't have a problem with understanding complex things given your nerdy configurations, but making music in general is not about complexity, it tends to be more about simplicity.

 

The fact is, you don't really need to know all that much in order to be productive with a Helix.  Exotic configurations and setups rarely make any kind of significant difference especially to an audience which is why you're doing this.  I've been working with my Helix since it first came out in 2015, and I have done some complex things with it.  But the VAST majority of what I use when I play it tends to orbit around one of two specific amps that are very powerful and flexible which are the Grammatico GSG and the Elmsley which were released in firmware 3.60.  I committed my time to understanding how to configure them and what each option provides which are pretty well documented by Line 6.  Beyond that I confined myself to about 5 different Line 6 cabinet configurations from the new cabinets.

 

Just using those as the core elements I can create any of the presets I need, and I play a LOT of different styles of music.  Beyond those amps and cabs the only things I use in any of my presets are a choice of three different distortion pedals which are the Minotaur, Teemah and occasionally the Tone Sovereign.  Beyond that I'll usually have a Dynamic Hall or Dynamic Plate reverb, a Transistor Tape Echo (if needed), a final LA Studio compressor and a final Parametric EQ (for final finishing of the tone) and that's it.

 

With just those components I've created well over 100 different presets in all sorts of styles.  The vast majority of my presets don't use snapshots because I can get the sounds I need just using regular footswitches.  There are occasions I might add a specialty block of some sort like a Twin Harmony or a Poly Capo, but almost everything is very limited, concise and SIMPLE.

 

The important thing is that you don't need to know everything, you just need to know a few things very well in order to be productive.  And you don't need to tweak sounds endlessly to get a good sound.  You get something reasonable and start playing it.  The VAST majority of tone comes from the amp and cabinet settings.  Everything else are really just finishing touches.  Get something that kind of works.  Play it for a while, come back in a few hours and play it some more and maybe adjust a few settings once your ears are fresh and you'll be surprised how easily to can get sounds that work for you.

 

For people that are "gear heads" you can fool yourself into believing that gear and complexity will make a big difference, but in the real world that really isn't the case.

[datacommando]

On 8/24/2023 at 1:02 PM, katerlouis said:

Right now I feel like learning to cook without knowing anything about the ingredients or what goes well together. It feels vital to understand how things influence each other but that sooo hard to learn when each block has multiple pages of settings. 

 

I've watched countless tutorials on tone creation, recipes, templates, best practices... but in the end this all felt like chores and just work that lead no where– Like I'm running in circles. Now I feel like this approach was destined to fail all along. So much comes down to taste and understanding your guitar, your pick, your playing style... lots of good tips in those videos, but highly subjective and in the end gotten me nowhere.

 

But How? I would love nothing more than to see the Matrix; both knowing what I want and how to get there.

 

I had a similar "crisis" in terms of guitars. For said cover band I wanted to buy my first "proper guitar" – When I tried the Chapman ML3 Bea (Rabea Massads first signature model) I was just mesmerized; the neck humbucker to this day gives me goosebumps. I

 

I really wish to find the blue pill inside the Helix and enter the Matrix.

 

But if you have other specific recommendations in mind, I'd be up for that as well. 

Oh dear, oh dear.

 

”And please be gentle- I'm just a dude who's trying to find his sound and get back into guitar playing.”

 

Sadly, it appears from your comments, that you really don’t want to put the work in to “find your sound”, but rather give the impression that you are seeking a device with some sort of magic button. You know the sort of thing - click once and make me a guitar god!

 

It’s such a shame that in reality, there is no magic button, much like the “red pill, blue pill”, which you managed to misquote - “I really wish to find the blue pill inside the Helix and enter the Matrix”.  In the movie Morpheus says "You take the blue pill... the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill... you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."

 

The thing you say about “learning to cook without knowing about the ingredients”, is a really good way to poison yourself - which looks as if that is what you have done, only with guitar/music stuff rather than food. Regarding learning the tools you have at hand as “chores” is not a great attitude. I wonder if Steve Vai thought practicing for 10 to 12 hours daily was a chore? And, I would bet that when you bought your Monkey Lord, plugged it in hit the strings - you didn’t sound like Rabea, did you! We’re you surprised?
 

Would you go out and buy an aeroplane, jump into the pilots seat and attempt to fly it without any prior knowledge?

 

Put the time in to learn your equipment and get results - the reason Angus Young, John Frusciante, Eric Johnson, or any other guitar player you could name, sound like they do is because they put the hours in to develop their unique tones.

 

Nobody is going to do it for you, and no amount of technology is going to solve this. 
 

Keep taking the tablets!

 

EDIT:

https://www.guitarplayer.com/gear/its-not-the-gear-that-makes-the-player-its-the-player-that-makes-the-gear-joe-bonamassa-talks-turkey-about-tone

 

[codamedia]

On 8/23/2023 at 7:30 AM, katerlouis said:

What would you guys think about a slim, trimmed down user interface? Just select your amp and choose between a few effects in predefined slots.

 

That's what the POD GO is. The Helix tones, with limited slots, many of them pre-defined. 

 

What I love most about the Helix is the LACK of pre defined slots. I have no desire to return to the days of set layouts and limited options in each block. 

[brue58ski]

I would take the Helix one thing at a time. If you go into a music store, you don't have someone instantly plugging in and unplugging effects and amps as you wish. So take your time. Find an amp. One you're familiar with. Maybe a Marshall, Fender or Boogie. Stay with it for a day at least. Try it completely by itself at first. Maybe add a little reverb just so it isn't so dry. After you've squeezed all you can out of the amp, add some distortions or fuzz boxes. Then move to the modulation effects using them in both your clean amp settings and dirty amp settings. Pretend you only have one amp and you have to squeeze as much as you can out of it. Don't forget to play with different mics and mic placement after squeezing what you can out of one. It's a lot of parameters to mess around with but the only way to learn the Helix is to do. Especially with musical equipment since it's all so subjective.

 

Slow and steady, one effect at a time, just like in a music store. Yes the walls and shelves are full of equipment, but you can only play through one setup at a time. That's how you need to approach the Helix. If you get something that is slimmed or trimmed down, you have closed off a lot of possibilities. Use the favorites option to save the amps and effects with the settings you like. I would spend at least a week doing this. And don't flit around to other amps. Stick with one and squeeze all you can out of it. Just like we used to do when all we could afford was one amp and there were no amp sims. Your by yourself, in a music store full of equipment and unlimited time to play everything in it. Approaching it from that aspect may help. It helps my but I do still find myself flipping through everything quickly instead of learning each thing so it's not a character flaw when you do this. Or maybe it is and I'm just delusional.