GEDDEY Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 Hello folks, They call me GEDD! I am fairly new to modeling. Got myself a helix floor unit a couple of months back. I have been expanding my knowledge in and around properly utilizing it. In this pursuit of creating my desired tones below are some questions i have for you. QUESTION 1: How do you choose a cab to compliment the tone that you have already achieved in the signal chain pre adding a CAB? QUESTION 2: Looking at the signal chain from every point of view (technical or otherwise) is a cab "mandatory" to be added in a signal chain if the you have already achieved the desired tone? I hope to get different takes on how each of you approach this part of the signal chain and what is the factual / feel reason that prompts you make the cab choices you make. I would also appreciate any tips or advise you have to offer. Thanks for taking the time in reading this post and contributing. Cheers - GEDD I have attached a custom tone file in which i have already achieved the tone i am looking for. Feel free to take a look. GRAM-GSG (EX).hlx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetallikid Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 How did you achieve your tone without a cab? If it works it works, but your question lacks some details to offer anything constructive. As far as picking out a cab that matches your tone. the only way would be to gain experience with each cab/mic combination and find your favs. Grab an amp + cab block and adjust the amp to where you like it. Then go to the cab and start playing around and noting the differences of the cabs using the same mic and the opposite, keep the mic the same but change cab/speaker combinations and note the changes if you find a mic that gives you what you want, try that on the cabs that you favor. There are many cabs/mics combinations that lend themselves more to one style than another, however there are no rules.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmalle Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 The second question can be answered with no - it is absolutely not mandatory to use a cab / IR. It just adds color: a realistic representation (or high resolution eq curve) of real world cab+mic combination. The first question opens up a DEEP rabbit hole - if you craw through you come out as an audio engineer. It's like a chef needing to learn ingredients, seasoning, cocking recipes for different meals. Ingredients: Characteristic sound of of different speakers and mics, sound of different cab constructions, mic positioning, combinations of multiple speakers and mics among other stuff. Seasoning: Eq-ing, low and high cuts, ambience and so on. Recipes: What combination works for what sound? Learning by doing and stealing recipes from wherever you can find them including existing presets. Here are a few reads for a start: https://blog.line6.com/2020/06/30/youve-never-actually-heard-that-amp/ https://blog.line6.com/2022/12/21/dave-hunter-tone-in-a-box-part-1-tone-tweaking-via-cab-swapping/ https://blog.line6.com/2023/02/04/dave-hunter-tone-in-a-box-part-2-tone-tweaking-via-speaker-swapping/ https://mastering.com/approach-equalization-two-types-eq Finally: If it sounds good it is good. Trust your ears, but not too much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEDDEY Posted August 30, 2023 Author Share Posted August 30, 2023 On 8/30/2023 at 10:42 PM, themetallikid said: How did you achieve your tone without a cab? If it works it works, but your question lacks some details to offer anything constructive. Let me know what details you are implying and ill definitely try and provide it. As for my tone. I recently stumbled across the Alice in chains nutshell (unplugged) performance and am just captivated by the guitar work. I wanted to cover it. I had a tone similar to the sound you can find on the song but with a more refined tone. That's my inspiration to the tone i am chasing now. On 8/30/2023 at 10:42 PM, themetallikid said: As far as picking out a cab that matches your tone. the only way would be to gain experience with each cab/mic combination and find your favs. Grab an amp + cab block and adjust the amp to where you like it. Then go to the cab and start playing around and noting the differences of the cabs using the same mic and the opposite, keep the mic the same but change cab/speaker combinations and note the changes if you find a mic that gives you what you want, try that on the cabs that you favor. There are many cabs/mics combinations that lend themselves more to one style than another, however there are no rules.... Hmm.. I was under the impression there might be some sort of a well known knowledge to target cabs modeled after a certain generation. Ill definitely spend some time experimenting with them. Thanks for your input again man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEDDEY Posted August 30, 2023 Author Share Posted August 30, 2023 On 8/30/2023 at 10:59 PM, Schmalle said: The second question can be answered with no - it is absolutely not mandatory to use a cab / IR. It just adds color: a realistic representation (or high resolution eq curve) of real world cab+mic combination. Oh wow, good to know! On 8/30/2023 at 10:59 PM, Schmalle said: The first question opens up a DEEP rabbit hole - if you craw through you come out as an audio engineer. It's like a chef needing to learn ingredients, seasoning, cocking recipes for different meals. Ingredients: Characteristic sound of of different speakers and mics, sound of different cab constructions, mic positioning, combinations of multiple speakers and mics among other stuff. Seasoning: Eq-ing, low and high cuts, ambience and so on. Recipes: What combination works for what sound? Learning by doing and stealing recipes from wherever you can find them including existing presets. Thats a nice way to put it. Will experiment with said blocks and try and steal some ideas from well made presets. On 8/30/2023 at 10:59 PM, Schmalle said: Here are a few reads for a start: https://blog.line6.com/2020/06/30/youve-never-actually-heard-that-amp/ https://blog.line6.com/2022/12/21/dave-hunter-tone-in-a-box-part-1-tone-tweaking-via-cab-swapping/ https://blog.line6.com/2023/02/04/dave-hunter-tone-in-a-box-part-2-tone-tweaking-via-speaker-swapping/ https://mastering.com/approach-equalization-two-types-eq Finally: If it sounds good it is good. Thanks a lot for this bro. I will go through them thoroughly. On 8/30/2023 at 10:59 PM, Schmalle said: Trust your ears, but not too much! LOL!! Will do! Thanks for taking the time man. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 The question here is, "how do you know you have the tone you're trying to achieve given that even listening to it means it's been affected by the speakers you're listening through?" As odd as that sounds, it's actually a significant piece in the puzzle. Ultimately the reason we have cabinet models with various mics and mic positions is because it's a part of the real world of sound...in essence sound doesn't happen without it. If you play your "perfect" preset through a pair of lo-fi computer speakers it's not going to sound anything like what it will sound like through a pair of high end studio monitors in a room with sonic treatment. And even that sound can change dramatically depending on what it's played through live or on a different guitar. All I can say is I use cabinets and mic settings on almost all of my presets as a final way of "finishing" my sound to get the sound I want in production whether that's on a recording or in a live performance. The only time I don't use cabinets is with an acoustic guitar for example. And that's because I'm after the very natural sound of the guitar and I don't even use an amp in that case. And the final judgment and adjustments are made once I play it through the system on which it will be played live, and played in conjunction with the other instruments and vocals it will be mixed with. As far as learning the ins and outs of different speakers, mics and mic placements that comes with time and experience. At this point I know the kind of setups that tend to work well for me depending on the style of music, and the guitar I'm playing it on...and that's about the best you can do. But it's been that way the whole time I've been playing, recording and performing for over 50 years and I'm not sure it's going to change much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datacommando Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 On 8/30/2023 at 7:50 PM, GEDDEY said: QUESTION 2: Looking at the signal chain from every point of view (technical or otherwise) is a cab "mandatory" to be added in a signal chain if the you have already achieved the desired tone? Hi, You might be surprised, or possibly not, that a whole heap of famous guitar players used to bypass the entire concept of using an amp and cab. They simply connected their guitar into the recording console and using a bunch of outboard processing created some extremely well known tones. Basically, there are no rules! Example video: EDIT: Craig Anderton, the author of the Big Book of Helix Tips and Tricks, actually has created some cabinet emulations using only EQ. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AndertonHX-e--sweetwater-publishing-the-big-book-of-helix-tips-and-tricks Hope this helps/makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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