Do You Have The Same Problem With 6th String?

[psarkissian]

L-wave is a false premise that doesn't go anywhere.

That is the wave physics of it.

[MiroslavKloud]

http://blog.line6.com/2010/piezo-pickups-the-heart-of-the-matter/

[psarkissian]

And the magnetic pull on the strings when Modeling is engaged can produce that,

if the pick-ups are not adjusted correctly to the distance of the strings.

[MiroslavKloud]

Claptrap.

[MiroslavKloud]

"What is clang-tone? Clang-tone, or wolf tone, is a sound inherent in a vibrating string. A string vibrates in three modes: Torsional, Longitudinal, and Transverse. Torsional vibration does not produce a sound wave – it is the string just twisting like a drive shaft in a car. Longitudinal vibration is what the magnetic pickups on a guitar are “hearing†and reproducing. Transverse vibration is a wave going up and down the string as it is stretches and relaxes longitudinally. Magnetic pickups do not reproduce Transverse vibration, but it is the type of vibration that a piezo pickup “hears,†and it produces the clang. Some describe its sound as a “ping†or “plink.†It is there even on acoustic guitars."

 

Edit:

in the text are interchanged words Longitudinal  and Transverse.

[psarkissian]

Claptrap?

Then why doesn't everyone with a JTV have this problem?

There is something else here.

[MiroslavKloud]

The answer to this question is your task (your and Line6).

And you know the answer, just refuse to admit it.

[cruisinon2]

If it's a mechanical set-up issue, then why is it ALWAYS just the 6th string? Is it just the world's biggest coincidence? The fact that the plink can be moved around to other strings by simply swapping piezo connections has never been adequately explained, either. A mechanical vibration issue has to have a physical point of origin, yet it's possible to inflict this horrible noise on other strings just by moving wires around. Makes no sense.

[MiroslavKloud]

Yes, Yes.

But it makes sense. The plink is formed also on other strings (A5).

On my A5 string is so large that it is audible with magnetic pickup.

But with modeling is the A5 fine - firmware.

The solutions - bridge modification or firmware modification.

[CipherHost]

http://blog.line6.com/2010/piezo-pickups-the-heart-of-the-matter/

 

 

Does this link not describe the problem as being associated with "transverse vibration", not longitudinal?

 

And the magnetic pull on the strings when Modeling is engaged can produce that,

if the pick-ups are not adjusted correctly to the distance of the strings.

 

Does this mean one could take a JTV without the plink and induce a plink by moving the mag pickups?

[cruisinon2]

Does this mean one could take a JTV without the plink and induce a plink by moving the mag pickups?

I seriously doubt it, but at least it would be easy to test...

[MiroslavKloud]

http://blog.line6.com/2010/piezo-pickups-the-heart-of-the-matter/

 

Does this link not describe the problem as being associated with "transverse vibration", not longitudinal?

 

CipherHost,

the answer is in post # 525. There is also an illustrative image.

In the original text is the error (interchange), but it's a good description of the cause.

[psarkissian]

The L-wave suggests a change of wavelength, which would be a change of frequency,

or frequency modulation (FM). Whatever problem there is would be more transverse

wave related. The string would have to do some serious gymnastics to do L-waves.

Magnetic pull from pick-ups induce the field in such a way, as to create warbling (an

FM effect), which is result of an out-of-adjusted pick up height.

 

 

-Have you tried using equalisation on your floor effects station or amplifier, to filter out

the undesired frequency (between 1.6-1.7 kHz)?

 

-Have you used Workbench HD to adjust the parameters (body, pick-ups, string gauges,

string volume, etc) and create the Model patch to where like it?

 

It's a lot easier than a firmware re-write, since they are not going to re-write the firmware

to your specifications, just for you. They just don't do that sort of customization.

 

That's what Workbench HD is for. Here's a tool and an opportunity to make use of the tool

to tweak to the way you like it. Make use of it, that's what it's there for. For those who don't

always like to have just presets.

 

 

It's about possibilities with the tools, finding your voice and sculpting your sound.

[cruisinon2]

That's what Workbench HD is for. Here's a tool and an opportunity to make use of the tool

 

to tweak to the way you like it. Make use of it, that's what it's there for. For those who don't always like to have just presets.

 

It's about possibilities with the tools, finding your voice and sculpting your sound.

To all of you suffering from the dreaded "plink":

 

You may all breathe a collective sigh of relief. As it turns out, you're just looking at things all wrong. Your guitars do not have defects...it's actually a "feature". A "creativity instigator", if you will. ;)

 

Wow...

[MiroslavKloud]

psarkissian,

 

 

The L-wave suggests a change of wavelength, which would be a change of frequency,

or frequency modulation (FM). Whatever problem there is would be more transverse

 

wave related. The string would have to do some serious gymnastics to do L-waves.

Magnetic pull from pick-ups induce the field in such a way, as to create warbling (an

FM effect), which is result of an out-of-adjusted pick up height.

 

Pseudo professional claptrap.  :)

http://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/Demos/waves/wavemotion.html

-Have you tried using equalisation on your floor effects station or amplifier, to filter out

the undesired frequency (between 1.6-1.7 kHz)?

 

Yes. "Surprising" findings:
1. It also affects other strings.
2. After a long search I announce - on my tube guitar amp really is no parametric equalizer.

-Have you used Workbench HD to adjust the parameters (body, pick-ups, string gauges,

string volume, etc) and create the Model patch to where like it?

 

Yes. I have modified almost all models.
The problem exists on all bodies and all pickups:
https://youtu.be/lHm3Tj-pa8I     time 2:12 - 2:45
In Workbench is not parametric equalizer for each string!

It's a lot easier than a firmware re-write, since they are not going to re-write the firmware

to your specifications, just for you. They just don't do that sort of customization.

My specifications? Read the entire forum. I'm not the only one with this problem!

That's what Workbench HD is for.

 

Absolute nonsence.

 

You want not to modify the firmware - OK.
Add the parametric EQ for each string to the Workbench.
You do not want? Then you admit the truth about the cause and prepare solutions.
Such a solution with which your repair shop is able to really fix these guitars.
And not return unrepaired after eleven weeks!

 

 

cruisinon2 - accurately

[CipherHost]

I seriously doubt it, but at least it would be easy to test...

 

It just so happens that my bridge pickup is "free floating" in it's cut out because I had to remove the pickup ring to make room for a GK-3 Hex pickup I am testing on my JTV-89F. I have not yet manufactured a new pickup ring to hold the mag pickup in place. I'm actually using a few cotton balls to hold the pickup towards the nut. This made it very easy to simply move the pickup around, both closer and farther from the strings. 

 

I did not detect a change to the sound of the modeled string, much less induce a plink. Did I not test this theory correctly? 

[cruisinon2]

It just so happens that my bridge pickup is "free floating" in it's cut out because I had to remove the pickup ring to make room for a GK-3 Hex pickup I am testing on my JTV-89F. I have not yet manufactured a new pickup ring to hold the mag pickup in place. I'm actually using a few cotton balls to hold the pickup towards the nut. This made it very easy to simply move the pickup around, both closer and farther from the strings.

 

I did not detect a change to the sound of the modeled string, much less induce a plink. Did I not test this theory correctly?

Up or down...there's not much to adjusting pickup height, so it's hardly possible to screw up this particular "test".

 

I'm not the least bit surprised that you failed to induce the "plink" this way. It's a guitar pickup, not a 3T MRI magnet...I didn't buy this as the cause before, and I still don't.

[psarkissian]

Pick-up would have affect more on strings. It can create a string warbling,

a modulation in frequency or FM (like in the earlier L-wave picture), And in

Model mode, the piezo picks up on that signal. It sounds annoying, and when

using Alt Tune it's even worse. I come across that every now and then, it

sounds awful.

 

Yeah, the magnets aren't that strong, the effect can be subtle (but sometimes

not). The rate of change between the string frequency verses rate of change of

the string crossing the mag field gives a changing beat frequency. It might not be

related to Miroslav's problem, but it's something to be aware of when using

mags and piezos together.

[MiroslavKloud]

Hello psarkissian,
You're an educated man, I'm asking for your opinion:
What is causing of these frequencies in my video?      https://youtu.be/lHm3Tj-pa8I

 

0:36 to 0:39 - 1.66 kHz
0:40 to 0:43 and 0:48 to 1:10 -  1.9 kHz
0:43 to 0:46 - 2.4 kHz

(The values given are only approximate)

 

The same phenomenon occurs also at my other guitars - Fender Stratocaster, Aria Pro II (superstrat) and no name acoustic guitar (here are differing frequencies - different length and gauge of strings).

[Rocco_Crocco]

psarkissian, there are many people who have the plink problem.

 

Telling MK that it is easier to EQ the plink out than to rewrite the firmware is insulting... easier for who? I have a hard time believing that anyone serious about purchasing a Variax who palm-mutes would ever consider buying one after reading this thread. Your "valued" customers have sent them your service centers to get the problem sorted eventually get them back and are told there was never anything wrong with their guitars. What kind of way is this to do business?

 

I had two JTV's... the first one had the plink. I had returned it for other issues that should not have gotten past QC. The replacement I received also had the plink. Two out of two of my guitars had the plinking issue. A 100% failure rate. After much frustration, I was able to take steps to fix the plinking issue (from your defective product) myself, oh BTW probably voiding my warranty. I am probably risking getting banned here but your attitude has been unprofessional and the way Line 6 has handled this mess by ignoring and denying the issues at hand sucks.

[cruisinon2]

psarkissian, there are many people who have the plink problem.

 

Telling MK that it is easier to EQ the plink out than to rewrite the firmware is insulting... easier for who?

Amen....What kind of "solution" is that anyway? Even if one could manage to EQ the plink away, it would only be a workable fix if it were possible to apply it only to the 6th string. As nifty as Workbench is, that level of control doesn't presently exist, unless I missed it somewhere. If you suck the offending frequencies out of the entire guitar, it will probably sound like you're playing flat-wound strings. What good is that?

[clay-man]

"EQing the plink away" defeats the purpose of the guitar sounding like the guitar's it's simulating.

 

If you have to resort to EQing to fix a problem on a Variax, then it's not doing it's job. It's supposed to sound like the guitars it's simulating and "EQing the problem out" ruins that whole aspect.

[cruisinon2]

"EQing the plink away" defeats the purpose of the guitar sounding like the guitar's it's simulating.

 

If you have to resort to EQing to fix a problem on a Variax, then it's not doing it's job. It's supposed to sound like the guitars it's simulating and "EQing the problem out" ruins that whole aspect.

Yes. And repeatedly offering it as a solution strongly suggests that nobody has any idea why it affects some guitars and not others...but for the love of God, just say it. People would find that a whole lot easier to swallow than being told "your guitar is fine, there's nothing to see here".

[stevekc]

I own five Variax's of different generations  and luckily none of them suffer any low E "plink" problem

[psarkissian]

I own four,... ditto stevekc.

 

"EQing the plink away" defeats the purpose of the guitar sounding like the guitar's it's simulating"---

So does re-writing the firmware, it would no longer be the model of the guitar being modeled.

 

EQ'ing insulting??? EQ'ing is how a sound is sculpted and adjusted to be where you want it to be.

That's how all our favourite guitar slingers do it.

[Charlie_Watt]

None of mine do either but I don't palm mute.

[MiroslavKloud]

psarkissian wrote in post # 462:

"Re-writing the program for you defeats the purpose of Modeling. So they aren't going to do that.

 

I say: EQing the plink away defeats the purpose of Modeling. So we aren't going to do that.

 

psarkissian, I am waiting an answer to #539.

 

stevekc, Gauge of your strings?

[cruisinon2]

EQ'ing insulting??? EQ'ing is how a sound is sculpted and adjusted to be where you want it to be.

That's how all our favourite guitar slingers do it.

They're not EQing to fix a malfunctioning instrument though, are they? A polished turd is still a turd.

 

And I'm sure you're smart enough to figure out that the insulting part is the thinly veiled assertion that there's nothing wrong with these plink-afflicted guitars that a little EQ won't fix. We've all heard the sound clips...a little EQ isn't going to fix this issue any more than a few extra sand bags would have saved New Orleans from Katrina.

[psarkissian]

And opinions and as numerous as turds and snowflakes.

 

But seriously cruisnson2, you've come up with some good posts in the past,....

what would you suggest as a solution?

 

And I'm not being sarcastic or rhetorical. You and stevekc have come up with

good stuff before.

[psarkissian]

Oh, and regarding string gauges, some use a set with 11's.

They say it works good for the rapid fire riffs, like in the original posts,...

more beefy tone to it was the impression I got.

 

Check out some of Sean Halley's videos, he uses a set with 11's on

some or all of his JTV's.

[MiroslavKloud]

psarkissian... #539
Do you know the answer?

[psarkissian]

Thanks for the reminder, almost forgot.

[psarkissian]

Interesting video.
Remind me again the brand and gauge set of the strings.

 

Too bad I don't the guitar in front of me to evaluate.

Nine times out of ten, it turns out to be a set-up or other adjustment.

It's the one out of ten,... hmmm.

 

If it were L-waves, I would think it would occur on more than one string.

 

If it were the firmware, my JTV's would being doing it too, as would be

with everyone else's.

 

Ring like that, what I hear when something hardware is loose, inducing

a secondary vibration from somewhere.

 

Wish it was here on my bench. Many variables to go thru and eliminate.

[MiroslavKloud]

Too bad I don't the guitar in front of me to evaluate.

Nine times out of ten, it turns out to be a set-up or other adjustment.......

     ........Wish it was here on my bench. Many variables to go thru and eliminate.

It was on your colleagues bench almost eleven weeks.

But my question is not concerning the "plink". You apparently didn't see the video at all.

My question related to three frequencies on three strings in the said times - with magnetic pickup.

Anyone can try the same thing on whichever guitar.

 

My strings - D'Addario EXL110

[psarkissian]

Yeah saw the video.

Still mulling over it.

[cruisinon2]

And opinions and as numerous as turds and snowflakes.

 

But seriously cruisnson2, you've come up with some good posts in the past,....

what would you suggest as a solution?

 

And I'm not being sarcastic or rhetorical. You and stevekc have come up with

good stuff before.

You can't treat a disease until you identify the root cause. The only thing everybody here agrees on, are the symptoms. As long as that's the case, the disease will roll merrily on...

 

Available evidence suggests one of 2 things:

 

1) Nobody knows what the cause is.

 

or

 

2) The cause(s) are known, but it's either:

 

A) a chance combination of factors which would explain why it only affects some guitars, as well as why the various homespun remedies are not universally effective...or

 

B ) It's simply too difficult/expensive to fix the bum units, and therefore the cause(s) have been declared a state secret, and afflicted instruments are sent to the toothpick factory.

 

It's even money as far as I'm concerned. Some things don't have an answer. We can pump Gramps full of 9 different medications that will keep his heart beating till he's 103, but we can't cure the sniffles. If I knew what to do about it, I would have suggested it already. Tech guru, I'm not. I just have a really fine-tuned BS detector.

[clay-man]

I own four,... ditto stevekc.

 

"EQing the plink away" defeats the purpose of the guitar sounding like the guitar's it's simulating"---

So does re-writing the firmware, it would no longer be the model of the guitar being modeled.

 

EQ'ing insulting??? EQ'ing is how a sound is sculpted and adjusted to be where you want it to be.

That's how all our favourite guitar slingers do it.

 

There is a difference between EQing to shape your guitar's sound and EQing to fix a hiccup in a guitar.

 

It's like getting a noisy guitar when the guitar isn't supposed to be that noisy and telling someone to get a noise gate.

 

The Variax is supposed to sound like something specific, and if someone has a defective unit making plinking noises while other people have guitars without that issue, "EQing out the plink" is an insulting resolution of the problem.

 

You don't buy a brand new car, have the car not run right, and be told you have to replace the engine.

[Kwendling]

This thread is huge, so let me reiterate something. I have the plink on my 6th string. I swapped the piezo connectors at the mother board. Then, the 6th string was normal and the plink moved to the 5th. So, same string, same setup, pick and attack and even same piezo. I made the problem move based on the input to the board. That's not mechanical. There is something different on the processing through the 6th string input.

[cruisinon2]

This thread is huge, so let me reiterate something. I have the plink on my 6th string. I swapped the piezo connectors at the mother board. Then, the 6th string was normal and the plink moved to the 5th. So, same string, same setup, pick and attack and even same piezo. I made the problem move based on the input to the board. That's not mechanical. There is something different on the processing through the 6th string input.

Yup, fun huh? We've all been saying that forever. Every time it's brought up, it is dismissed out of hand by the local reigning authority on all things Variax. Requests for further clarification are generally refused on the grounds that it would be divulging "proprietary information". You do the math...

[ice9mike]

This thread is huge, so let me reiterate something. I have the plink on my 6th string. I swapped the piezo connectors at the mother board. Then, the 6th string was normal and the plink moved to the 5th. So, same string, same setup, pick and attack and even same piezo. I made the problem move based on the input to the board. That's not mechanical. There is something different on the processing through the 6th string input.

 

Your observation was the first thing I tried when I had this problem on my 89F. The issue is not mechanical, or setup. It is PCB, or firmware related. No one at line 6 has confirmed this test or the fact that the plink is even an issue. I'm still not sure why that is.

 

Can you imagine what would happen if the Helix introduced a similar issue? It would be fixed in a New York minute because the level of support there is fantastic. For JTV's we get the run-around, no solutions, no firmware updates, and no enhancements.