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Do You Have The Same Problem With 6th String?

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Yamaha finally got a reply from Line 6. The reply is said to be very extensive. But Mr. R.M. does not have permission to transmit this message to me - the rules of internal communication. He told me the only one information: The problem probably can be solved only by editing the software. Unfortunately, from a subsequent communication is obvious - Line6 probably do not intend to.

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There's one solution folks. It sucks, but it is foolproof: find a guitar that works. They're not all afflicted. We will probably never know what the cause is...most likely because the cause(s) is either expensive to remedy, embarrassing, or some combination of the two. Meanwhile, to everyone who "plinks": just keep raising your action in 6.4 micron increments until you can drive a truck under the strings.

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Looks like I did well buying a 7string :/

I still have my 89F but most of the time I'm playing it with the magnetic pickups. 

 

Still no progress, why on earth won't they release an updated firmware with the option to EQ the individual strings. EQ'ing within my DAW takes away so much tone, even if I narrow the Band in that frequency to a minimum. There has to be a proper solution.

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I still see one solution - YouTube. You do not want do it, but you see what makes Line 6  :( 
Also, I'm thinking about request for help in some musician magazines. But there is a problem with my bad English.

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If the problem is not universal then that means there's a defect within the guitar and not straight up the software.

 

They need to find out what's wrong with the PCB, or whatever is causing the issue.

If it doesn't happen on all guitars, then editing software code isn't going to fix it, because the problem is within your guitar itself. 

 

The problem is Line 6 owning up to there being a problem when they get a guitar with this problem, and FIXING IT, instead of handing it back saying there's no problem.

 

Replace the guts until the problem vanishes. Pinpoint when the fix happens to relation to what was fixed. 

Strip down the guitar and replace the hardware with new proper hardware until the problem is gone.

 

Once we do this and pinpoint where it happens, then we can start aiming towards the problem hardware for now on. How is this so hard for them to do? Are they too stingy to replace the guts? It'll save them a lot of money and grief in the end.

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There's one solution folks. It sucks, but it is foolproof: find a guitar that works. They're not all afflicted. We will probably never know what the cause is...most likely because the cause(s) is either expensive to remedy, embarrassing, or some combination of the two. Meanwhile, to everyone who "plinks": just keep raising your action in 6.4 micron increments until you can drive a truck under the strings.

 

I just have to acknowledge your cynical humor, I'm a huge fan of many humors, and you inject much logic in said humor.

 

And I also would like to acknowledge MiroslavKloud for his/her contributions of data towards a resolution.

 

Call me a fanboy if you want, but give Line6 some credit for not censoring this (epic?) thread.

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I just have to acknowledge your cynical humor, I'm a huge fan of many humors, and you inject much logic in said humor.

 

I try ;). You know, it's not even the fact that the problem exists that bugs me. Hell, mine works. It's that a little more credibility is lost every time they repeat "it's string buzz", "mag pickups are too close to the strings"...or my personal favorite, "just EQ it out". As if that were even possible without destroying the sound of the other 5 strings in the process.

 

Don't pi$$ on my leg and tell me it's raining...

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Hi all.

 

I've read before that this worked on a jtv59, so i gave it a try.

Just bought a set of 11-52 Elixir Acoustic strings (Phosphor bronze) and replaced just the e string.

 

 

 

Plink still there but way less than before.

Doesnt feel that disturbing anymore while playing.

 

Its more like modeling sounds differrent compared to magnetics , not plink on/off.

 

I'll post some samples later today.

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I have 2 89F guitars that both have the 'plink'. I'm a 20 year IT professional and have played guitar for over 30 years. I have my guitars setup regularly and store them properly. I've owned nearly every product Line 6 has made over the past 18-19 years. I only mention this because I know what I'm doing. I know modeling isn't perfect. I don't expect perfect.

 

The 'plink' occurs on both guitars E6 string only. It is absolutely unusable. I only use the modeling for acoustic tones. My level of disappointment is very high. But I need to point something out to Line 6. It is entirely possible that this is a firmware or software problem and not occurring for all JTVs. Bugs or poorly written code does not ALWAYS fail for all users in the same way. To continue to assume that an EQ pedal and some string volume tweaks are all it takes is insulting. I've spent over 100 hrs in 2015 'tweaking' my POD500X and JTV guitars. For months I was documenting what I tried. I really wanted to be able to help those of us with this problem.

 

 You cannot get ride of it with some EQ changes. I've even used studio quality EQs both before the guitar and from the FXLoop. I've changed strings and had setups done each time I change gauges. I've done the everything except file down the pickup casing.  You cannot 'tweak' away this problem with the tools Line 6 provides OR those that I could purchase (And I've spent a great deal on my rig and home studio).

 

The features and functionality of this guitar that was promised at the point of sale has not been delivered. At this time I have 2 POD HD500, 1 POD 500X, 3 relay units, 2 POD XTs (in storage), and am currently in the market to upgrade to something like the Helix. I am a solid customer. I'm not here to vent. I want this issue to be investigated. I don't really care if you ever tell us the real cause. I don't want Line 6's reputation to be damaged. I want to be able to say to my friends and co-workers who play guitar that the Variax is a great option. Fix the problem and stop pushing it back on the customers!

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Fix the problem and stop pushing it back on the customers!

At this point, I'd settle for a reasonable explanation as to how this alleged "mechanical" issue can be magically transported from one string to another, simply by swapping piezo wires. A malfunction so stable, it's actually routeable. Not exactly what you would want for ad copy, but I bet it's publishable.

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At this point, I'd settle for a reasonable explanation as to how this alleged "mechanical" issue can be magically transported from one string to another, simply by swapping piezo wires. A malfunction so stable, it's actually routeable. Not exactly what you would want for ad copy, but I bet it's publishable.

 

I totally agree, but like I said, fixing firmware = breaking all the guitars without this problem.

 

If the piezos being swapped means the problem transitions along to that string, then the problem is the guts, so why not do a breakdown of the hardware inside of the Variax to figure out once and for all what part is malfunctioning on these guitars?

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Are we sure that the problem is not universal? Those that don't have the problem... do you palm mute (metal style) with the Strat or Lester bridge PU engaged with a hi-gain amp?

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I have 2 89F guitars that both have the 'plink'. I'm a 20 year IT professional and have played guitar for over 30 years. I have my guitars setup regularly and store them properly. I've owned nearly every product Line 6 has made over the past 18-19 years. I only mention this because I know what I'm doing. I know modeling isn't perfect. I don't expect perfect.

 

The 'plink' occurs on both guitars E6 string only. It is absolutely unusable. I only use the modeling for acoustic tones. My level of disappointment is very high. But I need to point something out to Line 6. It is entirely possible that this is a firmware or software problem and not occurring for all JTVs. Bugs or poorly written code does not ALWAYS fail for all users in the same way. To continue to assume that an EQ pedal and some string volume tweaks are all it takes is insulting. I've spent over 100 hrs in 2015 'tweaking' my POD500X and JTV guitars. For months I was documenting what I tried. I really wanted to be able to help those of us with this problem.

 

 You cannot get ride of it with some EQ changes. I've even used studio quality EQs both before the guitar and from the FXLoop. I've changed strings and had setups done each time I change gauges. I've done the everything except file down the pickup casing.  You cannot 'tweak' away this problem with the tools Line 6 provides OR those that I could purchase (And I've spent a great deal on my rig and home studio).

 

The features and functionality of this guitar that was promised at the point of sale has not been delivered. At this time I have 2 POD HD500, 1 POD 500X, 3 relay units, 2 POD XTs (in storage), and am currently in the market to upgrade to something like the Helix. I am a solid customer. I'm not here to vent. I want this issue to be investigated. I don't really care if you ever tell us the real cause. I don't want Line 6's reputation to be damaged. I want to be able to say to my friends and co-workers who play guitar that the Variax is a great option. Fix the problem and stop pushing it back on the customers!

applause.gifwell said!!!

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clay-man fixing the problem doesn't mean wreaking it for everyone else. It could be as simple as improving the firmware so that the E6 is a bit more sensitive and blocks the plink for everyone. I've been in IT delivery for 20 yrs now, we never accept fixing one problem only to break another. The issue is the POD is 'old' and they have new products to work on. My issue is this has been a problem since day 1 (at least since I had my variaxs) and it hasn't been addressed.

 

I'm a very loyal Line 6 customer. My cover band plays out regularly and we have 2 guitarist and a bassist using PODs. Both guitarists have Variaxs. We've never been able to take advantage of the alternate tunings because of the plink. I'm a gear junkie with a good paying job. I'm what Line 6 wants. But because this issue has never been addressed successfully, I'm strongly considering not buying the Helix. I hate to say I'm looking at options because if the Variax can't do what it was promised (for all of us) then I'm concerned about their ability to keep their promise on the next wave of new gear.

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I totally agree, but like I said, fixing firmware = breaking all the guitars without this problem.

 

I'm not a software engineer, but I don't think that's a forgone conclusion...until it's proven one way or the other, it's no more valid an assumption than saying "it can't possibly be the firmware because they'd all be defective". Neither is a given...but either one presents an excellent excuse for doing nothing.

 

As was stated above by someone with the relevant experience, software failures won't necessarily manifest themselves the same way in all cases. I'm prepared to accept that...almost nothing in life is that black and white.

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Are we sure that the problem is not universal? Those that don't have the problem... do you palm mute (metal style) with the Strat or Lester bridge PU engaged with a hi-gain amp?

I use the Strat and LP models 90% of the time, with lots of gain and no shortage of palm muting. I have no plink.

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I repeat: Yamaha has an extensive statement from the Line 6. Only one information was forwarded to me: "the problem can only be solved by modification software".

 

psarkissian,
You should respond to the post of yelldog.

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I use the Strat and LP models 90% of the time, with lots of gain and no shortage of palm muting. I have no plink.

Well it's good to know they got some of them right. I am lucky in that the vast majority of my plinkiness has disappeared since I filed the piezo surround. Others are not so lucky.

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Are we sure that the problem is not universal? Those that don't have the problem... do you palm mute (metal style) with the Strat or Lester bridge PU engaged with a hi-gain amp?

 

The thing is, most people with the ping issue have unusable E string regardless if they palm mute or have high gain tone.

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Honestly I think the problem might be the preamp for the piezos, hence why switching piezos makes the problem swap.

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Honestly I think the problem might be the preamp for the piezos, hence why switching piezos makes the problem swap.

For my guitar in service center was supposedly replaced all the electronics. But maybe they also lied. I also demanded the replacement of the volume potentiometer. It was not changed. Now I have big problems with this potentiometer.

 

psarkissian,

You should respond to the post of yelldog.

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Email - 20 February 2016:

Hello MiroslavKloud,

A Line 6 Support Ticket has been created for you. A Line 6 representative will respond within 3 business days.

 

Nothing yet.

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My first post (about this problem) in the Support ticket from Sep 29, 2013 has been very respectful.
Since then no positive development. With this in mind - my last post is not at all aggressive.

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re: Clay's query,... it's not preamp, and I can't get into the why I know, because

that's circuit level stuff that I can't get into. If I didn't know better, I'd think the same.

Good idea though.

 

re: Miroslav's request to answer yellowdog,... wouldn't know where to start, multiple

items and all. Have to go thru those one at a time. A somewhat varied post by him.

Interesting, thanks for bringing that one to my attention.

 

re: this post in general,.... it's been being looked at for some time by a number of us.

 

 

Piezo swapping,... the bridge and it's piezos were replaced.

Main board swapping,... that was replaced.

Firmware,... if that was the problem, then we'd all have the problem, and we don't.

Preamps,.... like the firmware, if it were that, then we'd all have the problem, and we don't.

 

Something else is involved here, that is exacerbating whatever the problem is. It is

being looked into for a while now.

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Excuse me, I no longer believe it. You know the cause.

The statement from Yamaha: the problem probably can be solved to  modification the software.

 

Yeah saw the video.

Still mulling over it.

#539 - I'm still waiting.

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Sorry to disappoint your distrust, we have been looking at the video

and going over this stuff.

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Upper harmonics when scraping against wound strings. And if you're using an overly

resonant Model patch or amplify enough, it will exaggerate the effect.

 

I do that all the time on my non-JTV guitars too, when I do a Van Halen, Deep Purple, 

Pink Floyd or a Ronnie James Dio piece. I can do that with a finger, finger nail or a flat pick.

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Since you think I'm not trustworthy or of use regarding this post,

I am handing the baton over to others, and they will continue on with

this, and I will no longer be following or responding to this topic and post.

 

It's been interesting. Bye.

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Upper harmonics when scraping against wound strings.

It is illogical answer. Even that's not the answer to the original question (...finger nail or a flat pick).

You must do that only with the finger(ball of finger).

Just as I am in the video. The times mentioned below:

 

https://youtu.be/lHm3Tj-pa8I

0:36 to 0:39 - 1.66 kHz

0:40 to 0:43 and 0:48 to 1:10 - 1.9 kHz

0:43 to 0:46 - 2.4 kHz

 

The frequency is independent of the string tension (turning the tuning peg has no effect). But it is dependent of the length of string. Also is independent of the speed of sliding.

Anyone can try on whichever guitar.

 

You of course will not answer. I understand. It's easier to say goodbye than to admit the truth.

Bye, bye.

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I have been following this discussion for a while as I was considering buying a Jtv 89f. I did order one which I picked up this week. Happy to report this guitar did not have the pling issue. It has a 2015 serial number. This is my second Variax, the previous one was a 700 electric. I wanted to report I notice these piezo pickups are very sensitive in that I pickup more sound as my fingers move along the strings. This does not cause much of a problem but I did notice it soon after working with this guitar. My old 700 piezos were not as hot. I don't see this as a negative but there is a difference. Overall the quality and fit and finish have been excellent on my guitar. Very happy so far. Just wanted to post my experience with the difference in the piezos.

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re: Clay's query,... it's not preamp, and I can't get into the why I know, because

that's circuit level stuff that I can't get into. If I didn't know better, I'd think the same.

Good idea though.

 

re: Miroslav's request to answer yellowdog,... wouldn't know where to start, multiple

items and all. Have to go thru those one at a time. A somewhat varied post by him.

Interesting, thanks for bringing that one to my attention.

 

re: this post in general,.... it's been being looked at for some time by a number of us.

 

 

Piezo swapping,... the bridge and it's piezos were replaced.

Main board swapping,... that was replaced.

Firmware,... if that was the problem, then we'd all have the problem, and we don't.

Preamps,.... like the firmware, if it were that, then we'd all have the problem, and we don't.

 

Something else is involved here, that is exacerbating whatever the problem is. It is

being looked into for a while now.

 

There's no analog wizardry to level the signal before the piezos hit the DSP? I would think that it could be something between the DSP and the piezos causing the problem.

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There's no analog wizardry to level the signal before the piezos hit the DSP? I would think that it could be something between the DSP and the piezos causing the problem.

Either way, he tapped out off this discussion a few posts above....one too many ruffled feathers.

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I had one point in my post. I did add my backstory concerning Line 6 gear only to prove a point that I'm not new to this technology and that I've been a customer nearly from the start. I've owned many synth guitars which need to be played extremely cleanly. It isn't my finger nails or how I pick the string. I have 6 other guitars without this problem. Yes, piezo pickups are going to be more sensitive. The problem is that clearly some work and some don't. Last weekend I travelled 2.5 hrs to a semi-friend's gig because he also plays the 89F. He doesn't have the problem. I played it during their break. No plink.

 

There is a quality control problem. It's been clear for years. Owning up to it will cost Line 6.... Yamaha some money to fix it. But you're losing a customer that has purchased many and promoted to other to do the same of your products. If you can't even admit that there is a technical problem (accusing many of us basically being sloppy players) you will lose a long time, financially solid, and fairly influential (with about 10 guitar/bass buddies) customer. 

 

I can understand the frustration as moderators/employees. You most likely do not have the authority to resolve this problem. I fully intended to upgrade to the Helix months ago but the frustration with the variax has kept me from doing that. My only option is to get on the waiting list for the competitors floor unit. Line 6, step up and at the very least tell us what has to be done. Your past warranty for most of us, just tell us what needs to be done, and DO NOT tell me it have to adjust my playing. That is not the problem. 

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Very well said.

 

I can understand the frustration as moderators/employees. You most likely do not have the authority to resolve this problem.

 

Yes. The proof is psarkissian, if he answered my question truthfully, he would was getting too close (dangerously) to the root of the problem.

 

Anyone try my attempt with acoustic or disconnected electric guitar. You will hear the cause of plink.

And share your impressions with us, please.

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Yes Mr. Sarkissian it has been interesting.So much so that I will absolutely not be buying a JTV at any point for any of my projects.I am a working pro player out in the field using many products to make music and generate money.Not many of us left these days. I am an expert guitar synthesizer player with over 30 years of pro use of that technology in the field and studio. My technique is cleaner and more accurate than yours very likely is.Playing guitar synth well and subbing for keyboard players( yes I am that good at it) is a bit unusual to say the least.To imply that these hard core JTV devotees can't play properly is ridiculous.Anyone with any elevated guitar technique has already got the chops to play any modeling type of guitar. My older used Variax 500 has none of these problems.I Am currently preparing for an Eagles tribute with some really great players / singers.We considered using some newer Variax guitars but have decided to use some conventional and Roland/ Boss modeling tech for these gigs. High pressure/ High paying gigs.We will do very well after rehearsals are over and we are doing shows.I would suggest you stay at your workbench doing repairs and troubleshooting.You are probably very good at it. Best of luck in all your endeavors!

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Yes Mr. Sarkissian it has been interesting.So much so that I will absolutely not be buying a JTV at any point for any of my projects.I am a working pro player out in the field using many products to make music and generate money.Not many of us left these days. I am an expert guitar synthesizer player with over 30 years of pro use of that technology in the field and studio. My technique is cleaner and more accurate than yours very likely is.Playing guitar synth well and subbing for keyboard players( yes I am that good at it) is a bit unusual to say the least.To imply that these hard core JTV devotees can't play properly is ridiculous.Anyone with any elevated guitar technique has already got the chops to play any modeling type of guitar. My older used Variax 500 has none of these problems.I Am currently preparing for an Eagles tribute with some really great players / singers.We considered using some newer Variax guitars but have decided to use some conventional and Roland/ Boss modeling tech for these gigs. High pressure/ High paying gigs.We will do very well after rehearsals are over and we are doing shows.I would suggest you stay at your workbench doing repairs and troubleshooting.You are probably very good at it. Best of luck in all your endeavors!

Ouch...lol.

 

But are you SURE it's not the action? If you raise it the width of a dandruff flake, it might help. ;)

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