Output "levelizer"? Maintaining PA Mix from song to song with different amps/effects?

[edglex2000]

Is there such a thing as an output "levelizer"?  Some of the Amp levels operate much hotter than others and I'm worried that I may blow a speaker with an excessively high output.  It will also impact the mix from song to song in live shows.  Has anyone else found a fix or workaround for this situation?

[silverhead]

You need to perform an activity called level or preset balancing. It’s tedious if you’ve already developed a lot of presets that are not levelled. Search this forum, or Google the concept.

 

Essentially you need to visit every preset and edit them using the amp Channel Volume and Output block Level parameter. These provide clean volume adjustments, as opposed to the Gain/Drive or amp’s Master volume level, all of which affect the tone. Begin with your clean tones and go back and forth among them until your ears tell you their volumes are similar enough. Then proceed to your heavier tones, always comparing back to the clean tones for volume.

[rd2rk]

As above, but... ears can be tricky, there's PERCEIVED volume (how your ears hear the sound) and actual SPL Volume as measured in decibels.

Heavily distorted tones might be PERCEIVED as louder, but because distortion compresses the peaks, clean sounds might actually be louder when measured in decibels.

 

The longer you spend on comparing by ear, the less accurate your ears become - called "ear fatigue".

If you go this way, rest your ears frequently.

 

Most modern humans have a smart phone. You can get an app to measure decibels.

Not SCIENTIFICALLY accurate, but RELATIVELY accurate and sufficient to the task.

 

You can also use a DAW. In addition to input meters most DAWs have a db meter plugin, or one can be DL'd.

This is an even more accurate way than a phone app in that the signal is direct, and therefore not affected by ambient sounds. They also react faster.

 

Someday someone will create an AI to level our tones and protect us from loud music.

Skynet to the rescue...

 

 

[amsdenj]

https://youlean.co/youlean-loudness-meter/ is a great tool for preset leveling. 

[theElevators]

The easiest and most bulletproof way is to have the same exact signal chain throughout your presets (minus different delays, chorus, reverb).  In the practical sense, you absolutely should not change your sound drastically between songs, otherwise it will be a nightmare for the sound guy.  Even if you level your presets in terms of loudness, due to the nature of how sound works in a band context, there will be volume discrepancies because of how each distortion pedal/amp are EQ'ed.  You can have 2 presets be the same loudness, but one uses a Vox AC30, while the other uses a Marshall, and they will behave completely differently.  Oftentimes, these differences will be apparent only when you play through a powerful PA.  Depending on how the sound person sets your sound, these differences will be different each time.  Imagine instead of having one sound check, having 20 different sound checks--one for each one of your potential sounds. 

 

Each preset is essentially its own independent rig, and in order for guitar to be sitting in the mix correctly, each rig has to be sound-checked and adjusted independently.  So bottom line: pick a setup and stick with it.  Just because you can have different amps in every song, doesn't mean you should.  Even going from one pickup on your guitar to another will give you a different sound, so minimize these differences by sticking with the same basic preset, and only add certain colors/variations.  Take it from me, I've toured with my Helix extensively and know what to avoid.  The last thing you need is scrambling at sound check. 

[DunedinDragon]

What you have to understand is that each amp modeled in the Helix is modeled directly from the circuitry of the actual physical amp.  Amps rarely behave the same way and a 100 watt amp set to 5 will be a very different volume than a 50 watt amp set to 5.  The most accurate way to level out these situations is to do as has been pointed above and do it the way it will be done in a studio or live performance through "gain staging" which is the process of adjusting the signal level of the output coming from the Helix so they're exactly the same on a channel receiving the signal.  The easiest way is to have either a mixing board or a DAW that will display the signal strength on a meter and, as it has been mentioned above, adjust the channel volume and/or the level of the output block until the signal is always at the same level.  That's the only way to make sure everything is at the same level without affecting the tone and makes it very easy for any sound engineer to gain stage your Helix.

[PaulTBaker]

If using a meter ( I love the https://youlean.co/youlean-loudness-meter/  as posted above), make sure you are setting it to the correct level for the type of meter.  I will get the names wrong, but the DBFS meter is at unity at -18db, not zero.   There are a lot of posts about this.

 

I try to have my patches average -18 db with lead bumps not going over -12 or -13 db.   

 

You also have to take into account which guitar you are using.  I normally play Telecaster or the Revstar with p90's.  The Revstar is much hotter.   I use the Tele to level the presets with the output block at 0, with a lead bump that ups the output block to 2.5 to 3.5.   I then take those same presets and copy them to a "Revstar" area on the setlist and just change the level of the output block to -4.2 and -2.0.

 

just some other things to think about.

[edglex2000]

Thank you ALL for the very helpful feedback.  TheElevators comment is exactly what I've been doing - just thought there might be something I'm missing.  I will try the loudness-meter approach as well - just to learn about it and experiment should be interesting.  At least I'll learn something new.  Many thanks everyone!!