How do you set the DT25 and PODHD master volumes when connected together?

[GazzaBloom]

As per my other post I have always run the PODHD500X master volume on full when connecting to my DT25 and used the DT master volume quite low to set the overall amp volume to suit the room.

 

The pre-amp gain is set to give the required amount of pre-amp distortion and the channel volume used to balance the volumes between patches. I get that.

 

But, setting the PODHD master at full seems to giver a much louder signal that the amp alone, so I'm really puzzled at the relationship between the 2 master volumes (POD & DT).

 

Does anyone really understand how they interact with each other and whats going on? Does the PODHD master act as another pre-amp volume or master volume?

 

how do you set these for your optimum sound and signal to noise ratio etc?

 

Gazza

[edstar1960]

The MASTER on he DT25 controls how hard you push the valves (tubes) in the power stage of the DT25 - having it set low means you are not driving the valves (tubes) much but having it set post 12 o'clock and you are pushing them a little harder to get a bit of natural valve (tube) breakup from them.

 

You balance the overall output volume of the HD500/DT25 by setting the MASTER on each accordingly.  So if you have the MASTER on the HD500 at max - you set the DT25 MASTER lower, unless you want it really loud.  You can also set the MASTER on the HD500 lower and then turn up the MASTER in the DT25 to compensate but you get the benefit of driving the valves (tubes) harder and will get more natural valve (tube) crunch from the DT25.

 

There are some old threads that describe the relationship in detail and I will post a link here if I can find them.

 

Meanwhile, just experiment to get a setting you like.  Many people have settled on about 1 o'clock for both HD500 and DT25 MASTER volumes - that gives sufficient gig loudness and drives the valves (tubes) nicely.

[geppert]

Is the master volume on the HD500 saved with the preset ?? ... or is it the same as the master volume on the DT25 where it is "outside" of the preset ?

[Brazzy]

Is the master volume on the HD500 saved with the preset ?? ... or is it the same as the master volume on the DT25 where it is "outside" of the preset ?

 

No, it's outside that. When I use the DT50 I set the master to about 1/4 throttle, the HD500 master I use at around 1/2 throttle. This varies though as long as your not overdriving the amp too much the digital models stay more clear when you ramp up the amplifier master. This is my very own taste and opinions will vary and of course all the other variables such as venue, etc.

 

I always start out low and work my way up.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Brazzy

[radatats]

A lot of misconceptions arose when they did the firmware change that allowed the POD master to work with the DT.  I too thought the DT master affected tube drive levels and argued extensively about it but alas, it does not.  Voltage to the tubes is constant.  The input is what varies and both the POD and HD master do the exact same thing to the signal, which ever one is turned.  They do work together in some way but it is not detailed anywhere and Line 6 will not comment.  It appears that they work in series and are additive but it makes no difference if the POD is maxed and the DT min or the DT is min and the POD is maxed.  Bottom line they are just tandem volume knobs and do not affect actual tube voltage or "drive" levels, just the level of audio being applied to the tubes.

 

The POD manual says you should try to max the POD master for max S/N ratio but they have not updated anything related when using DT with L6 link.

 

You can follow the old thread below for more thoughts...

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/4688-a-tiny-little-ground-breaking-feature/

[GazzaBloom]

Thanks Radatats, I can see why misconceptions arose but your explanation makes sense. I'll adjust using both together and let my ears decide where best to set them in relation to each other.

[saTa]

After dabbling about with both extremes, I settled at having both at around 12 o clock as a starting point, depending on surroundings... It's nice to have direct control without walking over to the amp (hence not to have the hd dimed) and it gives me enough power stage breakup for the sounds I'm after.

[stumblinman]

It seems like I get some grit in my clean tones if I turn Pod master up and not DT master lately. If I leave Pod at half and turn up DT it stays clean. If I turn up Pod and leave DT lower it gets a little grit to it. Perhaps my clean tone volume is too loud and is overdriving L6 Link input.

[radatats]

I got an attenuator from Carl's Custom Guitars for $45 on eBay. It came last night and I hooked it up just to see if there was any benefit from driving the power section of a DT.  So far, and it was far from a complete test, it doesn't seem to do much other than lower the volume.  I couldn't really hear any distinct increase in saturation or distortion specific to using the attenuator.  I will play more with it later this week and really try to put it through the wringer but I have a feeling that it isn't what I thought it was.  Glad I didn't spend a bunch on a Rockcrusher or some other high priced unit.

 

For lower volume jamming I just change the DT to Class AB, Triode and topo 1.  Works much better than LVM in my opinion...  If I don't hear any tonal improvement using the attenuator with a cranked amp then there is no point in loading up my DT for no reason.

[MartinDorr]

I am in the same corner as radatats. If I only use the DT's power amp section (either by going into the DT's effect return or by turning the preamp in the HD off and bypassing the DT preamp) I feel there is little sound difference from changing the DT master volume between 50% and 100%. I am not saying there is none. It's just far less than what I expected to hear.

I did a quick and dirty experiment a while back and sent a test tone into the DT power amp section and then measured the difference between peak and RMS levels with the idea that the difference between peak and RMS levels would be an indicator of how the power amp adds 'distortion/compression' or other tube amplifier artifacts. If I remember right I saw the difference shrink as I went from 50% to 75% (good: the tubes are doing something to the tone), but then the difference got a big bigger as I went higher on the master volume. My conclusion was that I get the most out of the power amp tube tone effect at around 3 o'clock DT25 master volume. Have not changed it since.

I use CHAN VOL to keep my peak modelling signal in the HD at a healthy strong level just below -12dBFS peak and HD Master volume to adjust to room/venue.

Decided against an attenuator after reading on the forum that they negatively mess with post amp effects like reverb, phasing, etc.

Martin

[TBone55]

I was reading the Line 6 Connectivity manual and came across the following under the heading "Additional L6 Control Behaviour".

 

When the SetUp - L6 Link:Control option is set to Amp A or Amp B, the following "sync" behaviours also apply between the POD HD Amp model and Channel A of the respective DT series amplifier.

 

• The MASTER VOLUME controls are not synced between POD HD or any connected DT amps. The POD HD Master Volume also has no effect on the signal fed to the DT amp. Simply use the DT amp Master Volume knob on each amp to control its volume.

[radatats]

I was reading the Line 6 Connectivity manual and came across the following under the heading "Additional L6 Control Behaviour".

 

When the SetUp - L6 Link:Control option is set to Amp A or Amp B, the following "sync" behaviours also apply between the POD HD Amp model and Channel A of the respective DT series amplifier.

• The MASTER VOLUME controls are not synced between POD HD or any connected DT amps. The POD HD Master Volume also has no effect on the signal fed to the DT amp. Simply use the DT amp Master Volume knob on each amp to control its volume.

yeah, but that was written before the firmware update that enabled the POD Master and was not changed with the update.  You need to use both Masters in some combination but it doesn't seem to matter which is higher. 

[TBone55]

Thank you for the clarification. Too bad they don't update their user manuals to reflect the firmware update.

[innovine]

My own experiments lead me to believe that you can think of the pod master as being on one end of the l6 link, and the dt master on the other. I think they are serially connected and it matters not which one you use; I use the nearest. This might be a bit different in LVM, I haven't done much with that, but I'm not getting any voodoo magic tones by tweaking one over the other, this after extensive a/b comparisons of the same riff looped and recorded with a variety of master positions.

[chrishlp]

Hi,

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread. The HD master volume now works with the DT25 to allow you to adjust your overall HD preset volumes to match unity with the DT preAmp volume. This is useful if you are using your recording presets which need to be lowered as a group to match the DT preamp volume. Best way to set this up is to choose 1 on the DT and adjust the HD master volume on the same amp sim to get unity between the two preamps. Driving the DT harder will increase tube saturation to the rectifier tube but this has some serious headroom so you probably won't see a lot of benefit doing this as you will simply have to turn the DT master down to get the desired output volume, loosing both power tube and speaker distortion.

 

the DT master volume, and only this control, determines how hard you drive the DT power amp stage (assuming you have unity gain between the HD and DT preamp stages). The resistor forming the DT master volume controls current draw from the power transformer which drives the speaker, not voltage, which remains largely constant.

 

As to Carl's custom attenuator, forget it, this has no effect on the power amp stage as it only affects the preamp volume. It is a useful tool on Fender and Peavey amps where it is hard to set the master volumes as these use linear not log pots. the DT uses a log pot taper so is capable of fine tuning the volumes itself.

 

If you can't run the DT at high enough volumes to drive the power amp tubes, then your best option (which is very effective) is to use full amp models to simulate power amp saturation. If you are at very low volumes then using the studio preamp sim at the end of your HD patch chain, is a good way to rebalance those lost low and high frequencies.

[innovine]

The resistor forming the DT master volume controls current draw from the power transformer which drives the speaker, not voltage, which remains largely constant.

 

So why is the fx return amplified to the max even with the dt master all the way down?

I think you are incorrect on most of your points above tbh.