DunedinDragon

Yeah, in your circumstance that's probably the best way to think of cabinets and mic's. If you use a Celestion V30 cab sim with a Royer R121 ribbon mic, you aren't going to sound much like either by the time it comes out of your cabinet, but it will likely give the cabinet something better to work with. The only limitation is that the sound going to the board if you go direct from the Helix isn't going to match the cabinet sound you're getting on stage. And if you mic the cabinet you're going to get further modification of the tone going to the board due to that mic and it's placement on your cabinet. That's the kind of stuff that drove a lot of us to just go to using a FRFR speaker.

Definitely spot on observations. I've noticed over the last 3 years going from the HD500 where I first started using FRFR speakers and into the Helix I've had a steady migration into studio and live sound disciplines which has definitely affected what's been my preferred tone over the years in live performance when I was using traditional amps. For example I now tend to sit my guitar in a bit higher frequency register than I used to in order to give space to the vocals and allow the guitar the space to be heard without mushing together with the bass or with the rhythm guitar. I've also dialed back a lot of gain knowing that with more clarity and articulation I won't need as much volume to be heard in the mix. Nor will I end up saturating the sound in the space I'm in. I'm also less likely now to use volume as a way to have my leads heard. It's more about a tighter frequency control that will naturally stand out instead of a whole lot of extra volume. These are all things I learned in the studio but am now able to incorporate into my live performance due to the control I have with the Helix. I'm not there 100% of the time yet, but 80 or 90% of the time I end up nailing it and the whole band blends great!!! Just like a studio recording.

This is why I use the Helix as the audio card. I can get the guitar level I want in the recording just by adjusting the master volume. It makes it a WHOLE lot easier to get what I want. I used to use a separate interface when I had my HD500X for a while, but found that having that direct connection from the Helix made everything so much easier. I have a separate patch for the keyboard, for the bass, and for the vocal mic. All I have to do is select the patch and I'm ready to record. With the Helix Editor it makes all of that very simple. To me the simplest way is the best way not to introduce anomalies or weird artifacts into the mix.

This has been exactly what I've discovered as well. I have to intentionally remind myself to keep a certain amount of brashness in the highs or it will get buried live with the band. It even tends to show up muddy when recording it. Some of that I believe has to do with the nature of using a FRFR speaker to dial in tones. I've learned to stand further away from the speaker and typically off-axis, sometimes with my back turned toward the speaker and I get closer to what it will sound like live without having to adjust as much.

I suppose it doesn't hurt to try, but generally speaking consumer home speakers aren't terribly flat in their response, and they're intentionally that way. Most often they're more bass heavy to make sure you get the "feel" of that explosion when watching an action movie.

You say the USB works for recording but not for playing along with tracks? Try hooking your monitors up to the Helix as well and run the USB to the computer using the Helix as your audio card. I agree with Peter, something it getting lost in the translation through the mixer. I have my Helix at the center of my recording setup with a USB to the computer and the monitors (and headphones) coming out of the Helix and it sounds perfect both in recording and playing along with tracks.

A side note, I've found I can get pretty close to that vintage spring reverb by adding just a touch of fairly rapid delay with a short time duration in a parallel split path to the reverb and play with the mix between the two. Try it and see if you like it.

Appreciate all the feedback and I think we're on to something here. I personally hope we can use this to help folks overcome the huge learning curve they encounter with the Helix. It's encouraged me to rummage through some of my old links that helped me so much when I was getting started doing recording and live sound engineering. They'd be nice and handy to hand out to folks struggling with some of these problems. As far as writing the "missing manual" I doubt I'm ready for that. I'm still learning as well. As anyone will tell you, it never stops. There's always something else that someone has discovered you never thought of. I even had to chuckle to myself after reading Doug6String's post about using too much EQ. I've known using too much EQ can make things sound too synthetic and that's why I try to avoid EQ as much as possible and handle it in other ways (different cab or mic combinations, etc.). But it just so happened I was working on a patch today that I felt I just needed a touch of EQ to correct a specific problem. After reading his post and knowing my proclivity to take EQ too far, I went back to that patch and sure enough, I'd over-corrected my EQ. As soon as I flattened it out it sounded much more natural. But that's what I mean, I think we can all help each other out this way....

Because nothing comes for free. There's always a trade-off. In order to provide the capability of multiple signal paths with the variety of blocks and the detailed adjustments that can be made to those blocks, there's going to be a cost in loading a new preset. This is the same reason a Ferrari will never get 40 miles to the gallon. It was never designed or nor meant to do that.

It certainly would introduce you to some different aspects of the Helix, that's for sure. It might be a bit overwhelming at first because that environment is probably going to be VERY different than what you're used to. However if you're patient and figure out how to get a great tone out of it you'll be miles ahead in knowing how to use all the tools and techniques in the Helix to craft your tone.

It seems to me there tends to be three types of users that use the Helix. Once group focuses on their live sound and the other focuses on recording in their own studio. The third group does both, recording and live. And it makes me wonder if some of the folks that have a problem adjusting to the way Helix does things is due to a lack of exposure or experience involved in recording. Here's what brings me to this idea. There are quite a number of us that are perfectly fine using FRFR speaker setups. It doesn't bother us, but more importantly it's somewhat critical to the way we build our patches because we tend to build them the same way as we would for recording them. In that case you kind of need a setup that allows you to hear things very clearly like you would in the studio in order to tailor the sound precisely. Also this group has a distinct advantage in understanding the the tools and techniques involved in the Helix because it mirrors a lot of what we've been doing in the past in order to get a good capture in the studio. Things like cabinet arrangements/mixes, mic types and mic placements are things we come to the party already familiar with. If someone primarily works live they tend to let the sound guys work on that stuff and aren't really hands on. They just concern themselves with what they hear on stage. But that really may be a disadvantage when it comes to getting everything you want out of the Helix because there are many tools and techniques that aren't as prevalent in the typical live environment as that are in the studio. Examples might be compressors, gates, limiters and various styles and uses of EQ. The reason I bring this up is we tend to see a lot of new people struggling getting the sound they want out of the Helix and maybe the answer for many of them might be to encourage them to at least study recording techniques if not to get involved in doing some recording. It sure seems to me that it might provide them with some really important skills and knowledge they can use in creating patches for live performances that don't frustrate them. What do you think?

In all likelihood the thing you think sucks the most is the one things someone else can't live without. That's just the way it is. This is why we all have different likes/dislikes...which makes Helix very useful since it's so versatile. Sometimes the thing you think sucks turns out to be something you actually like once you figure out the ins and outs of it. The classic case for me was the LA Compressor. At first I just didn't get it, then I started figuring out the secrets to using it and now it's my favorite compressor. So I've learned you never close the book on anything. There are a few things almost everyone thinks sucks like the firmware update process or the IR management scheme (or lack thereof)

Well I certainly didn't mean it as an insult...I meant is as humor. But apparently it missed that train..... Maybe there is a difference in units, but I personally own two Helix units and they both act the same when it comes to tuning. What could and does change are possibly higher gain pickups that could make a difference, or simply the people themselves and their expectations of a tuner. Admittedly the highest gain pickup I have is on my Les Paul which is a burstbuster pro II, but that's nothing in comparison to what others might be running. But for some of us that don't seem to be bothered that much by the tuner, and mine does fluctuate as all do but I've adjusted to it, it just seems over-the-top all the anguish regarding this relatively minor feature of Helix. I guess if I was really bothered by it I'd get a $10 clip-on tuner and call it a day.

The simplest arrangement is just to have one USB plug from the Helix into your laptop. Everything else (including monitors) is connected to the Helix. I use Windows and it immediately recognizes and uses the Helix as it's sound card when I plug in, so all of sound from the computer goes through the Helix and the studio monitors. I don't know if the Mac does the same or if you have to manually select the Helix, but it's still the simplest arrangement. As far as XLR or 1/4" I just use 1/4" and it works fine, but either one should be adequate.

Personally I and several others have gotten rid of our external audio interfaces. The Helix is perfectly capable of providing what those units provide and it's much simpler to use in practce. For example I have my vocal mic permanently hooked up to the Helix and it has it's own dedicated patch. Same with Bass guitar and keyboard. So when I'm ready to record or rehearse any of those I just select the appropriate patch and it's ready to go. And I can do all of that just from the Helix Editor. It makes life very simple.

TSR = Tip Ring Sleeve. It has an extra section on the plug whereas a guitar cable has just a tip and a sleeve.

Yeah I would agree it's probably not something that could be backed up by any objective measurement, But even so, I'm not sure there's a real advantage to mixing IRs in series anyway, which you would have to do in order to have them split across DSP processors. To me mixing IRs would be running them in parallel on the same path and mixing them via a split.

There's nothing different in this video than what I normally encounter on my Les Paul, Strat, Tele, and Gretsch Silver Falcon hollow body (with Bigsby). Some using .09 strings and others using .10 strings from various manufacturers. No problem tuning my Fender Precision Bass...all about the same. That's why I've never understood all the anxiety and fixation with the tuner. I don't think it has anything to do with the tuner, it has to do with the user's OCD.

I think you've already got a pretty good idea on a couple of your questions, but I'll try to fill in a couple of gaps in terms of Kemper and Helix. First of all they are two completely different types of technology. The Helix is a modeler. What that means is that all of the different types of components were modeled after the electronic characteristics of the actual unit. Therefore, when you turn the Mid knob on the modeled amp you've chosen to use in your patch, it will have the same effect on the signal as would the real amp. The same for the various effects and so forth. The Kemper is not a modeler, but a profiler. If you're familiar with the idea of sampled sounds like those used on electronic drums, it's similar to that. In other words it copies the ACOUSTICAL characteristics and behaviors of an amp. Subjectively I'd characterize the difference as more of a "live" sound on the Kemper versus a "studio" sound on the Helix. What makes the Helix more flexible is that each component acts in a similar fashion to it's real world counterpart. So changing things on the fly is very easy and very accurate. A good example of this is on a Helix you can modify the SAG and BIAS on the amp which in the real world would require hardware changes, and is harder to do in the profiled world because you're not modifying electrical characteristics, you're modifying acoustic characteristics. However there is a plus side to profiling in that it's very easy to create a new amp profile. Even users can do it if they have access to the real amplifier, but it's a very long and detailed process in the modeling world.

If I were you guys I'd give the tech support folks at Line 6 a quick call. Phone support is free and if this is known prevalent problem they probably know what causes it and what it takes to fix it.

I only recently upgraded to 2.21 and was totally surprised at how well the swell effects worked given all I'd read about it. I guess it all depends on what you're used to, but it worked pretty darn well for me...

Really??? What leads you to think that? Have you noticed all the constant threads about Helix Native, or the incessant whining about the tuner? It's kind of like telling a 3 year old you're going to take them to get ice cream "later". That's about the level of patience we see around here.... :lol:

I guess this is where there's a disconnect in what you're saying from what most of us are experiencing. In a normal preset there's really not much reason for every block to need to be assigned to a footswitch. For example, if you have a compressor or a reverb that's being used in that preset there's not much reason to have it assigned since it's going to be on all the time. Likewise there's not much reason at all to turn the amp block on or off unless there's a second amp in the chain in which case you'd most likely assign both to one switch and toggle them. That's why this normally isn't a problem for most users. I guess it all depends on how you use your presets, but if there are lots of changes you want to be able to make to a preset when using it you'd probably want to use a snapshot anyway.

I just got my 2nd Helix on Thursday and I didn't have time to get everything transferred over and setup before the weekend, so I had to use my original unit.

You can only guess what will EVER be in an update because Line 6 certainly isn't going to say anything until it comes out. That's just the way it is.