mikisb

Still asked this question in the G10 subforum, but without any answer: Is the G10 acting like a simple buffer wich eliminates cable capacity virtually or does id add a capacity so simulate a real cable? This would be important to know how Helic will react. And if G10 simulates a cable, even a fuzz should behave as expected, as far the input impedance of the model is equal to 1 MOhm when "auto" is selected.

well - i don't think that line6 will be able to implement/add "seemless" microphone angles / center distances, as a infinite numbers of IRs would be necessary to do this. I can't imagine that there is enough place in the Helix for it ;) Perhaps we get some day an angle of 25° and 45° off axis with the possibility to blend between 0, 25 and 45. This would'nt be the same as really miking all possible positions, but would give enormous variations of whar we get today. I did'nt often mice a cab but when i did, i never had the idea to do it on axis just in front of the speaker, as most cabs in my opinion does'nt sound the best way there. And this shurely don't sound like we're used in real life if we don't use cabs as headpones ;) So i wonder a little bit if, and in case, why line6 modeled just this mic position?

a few days ago, i posted this point to ideascale here: http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Helix-Please-add-Microfone-angle-to-cab-parameters/817573-23508 ;)

can't reproduce that with my helix - at least today. The sound is independent (and now pretty good) from the output level. But as there where some strange effects on my Helix too, i think nothing is impossible ;) In fact, the sound of this machine really should'nt depend on the output level. On a master volume ok - in a certain range.

Hi, had a similar issue iwithin the first days, but in my case, all outputs where concerned (instrument, line, headphone). In each overdriven/distorted sound it seemed that the cab sim was disabled. After some restarts and a factory reset, this fizzy, noisy sound was gone, helix changed his character completly. Don't ask me for the reason, but as more than one people complain about hard and noisy distortions, i think there's still ab bug wich appears sometimes after an firmware update. In my case, some resets and restarts did help what makes me think that we talk about a software bug and not a hardware issue.

thanks a lot for your explications. So it seems that it isn't my personal problem but something systematic. This makes me not play better, but it makes me sleep better :)

thanks! I don't think that the Helix looper can be syncronized - in my understanding it's just a loop with what i play, with start and end definded by my foot. How he should know what i want? I wonder how musicians use lopers on stage? Do the human beings adapt to a beat presented by a machine or loop?

it seems that i've not enough talent to use the looper :( At the aux input of the Helix, i use a Digitech Trio wich gives me a drums and bass base. Works fine. Using the looper, i try to add a lick/rythm guitar. Works fine too. But i'm not able to really syncronise both, so after a few takes, it does'nt match anymore. It seems that i'm not able to start and stop the looper exactly at the same count, so the timing difference between both gets bigger each time the loop repeats. I simply cant handle the multitask challenge to play guitar and switch the looper at the same time. Even if there's only 1/19 second difference, it's still 1 second when the loop repeated 10 times. Du you have a hint how to use the looper better? Don't have any experience with.

hmmm - my active Ibanez works good on the guitar input. I even did'nt have to engage the input pad but i guess that the Ibanez electronics don't boost much, it's more a kind of active tone control. I have no idea why the aux input should be better?

humm - there are some effects when driving a speaker really to it's limits: Speaker: - as already said thermal compression and voice coil destruction - distortion is rising too at the top end - don't know if the amount is bif enough to be heard with a overdriven guitar. - on some speakers, distortion is also rising at really low levels - Limits of the suspension just in the moment before the speaker dies ;) - voicecoil damage Amp: - Overdrive of the poweramp (modelled in Helix by master volume) Ears: - psychacoustical effects 1, as the sensitivity vor frequency ranges changes with the level - psychacoustical effects 2, as the feeling of sound pressure adds to what we hear I thing both effects can't be reproduced at lower levels Hope i did'nt forget something?

as far as i know, "speaker breakup" is in general a function of the frequency, not of the level. In their normal working range, speakers behave the same relativly independent of the level. When a cone breakup appears at 115 dB, it usually appears at 90 dB to, cause its usually the frequency where the piston stops to work as a piston and gets into partial vibrations, wich is sen in the frequency response. If you compare this response at 80 dB and at 110 dB, you will hardly note a difference (if the speaker is'nt crap and its maximum level is above the 110 dB.) Thermal compression is another thing and mechanical limits at low frequencies just another thing, and these both are level dependent. But i'm not shure if we really want to hear this. Modelled voicecoil crash or deformation? No thanks :) The easiest way to get it would probably be making IRs not only at different mikrofone angles and distances but at different levels to. So we could easily get hundrets of IRs just for one cab - who will keep the overview and wich device will manage this amount? ;)

All right - as i did'nt find something similar in ideascale, i posted this as a new suggestion here: http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Helix-Please-add-Microfone-angle-to-cab-parameters/817573-23508

Hi roscoe, thanks for all the research you've made and for sharing the results - your own IR's and your conclusions. I fully agree with all conclusions you made. For my taste, many of 3th party IR's sound better and more authentic than the modelled cabs. But why? The cabs are more convenient for me as i'm able to change some important parameters. If i could change even the mic's angle, it would be great as i think this would make them much more realistic. Using IR's is cool but not convenient for me, as i loose myself in thousands of IR's with less possibilities to modify Remember: A mic (or ear) direct in front of the speaker(0°) is just one of many vectors. It is not the mayority of the sound dissipating into a room, but a minority, as you habe 1 vector at 0° and many vectors at 15° for exemple. So for my taste, the frequency response exactly on axis was always overweightet for my taste. Speakers dissipacion changes a lot with the angle. In average, a angle of 15 to 30° corresponds much more to what we hear in a room than the one angle of 0°. I think this could be the reason why often the cabs sound harsh to me and i have to use the highcut. The highcut should be used to do some fine tuning, but it should not be necessary to make a cab sound about like a real cab with guitar speakers. So i think, adding different angles to the cabs (as parameter as the distande) would probably result in more convenient sound and would'nt destroy all patches still made as the 0° angle would still exist. Changing the cabs completly would do this and we all had to modify all existing patches based on those actual cab models. So i think adding the option of different mic angles could be the best solution for all.

Thanks for your relpies! Meanwhile, scott already answered - everything's fine! :)

Anybody an idea how to get the patches? I followed the link to PayPal and made the transaction, but then, nothing happened. I bet scott explained how it works in one of the videos, but i did'nt see them all yet and sometimes it's hard for me to translate everything. And is there anywhere an overwiew wich patches are sold in wich pack? Thanks Michael

strange - i'm not a hum noise fan, but the device does it for me. Maybe not every piece produces noise in the same way, as the comments at thomann are pretty different regarding noise. My copy makes more noise at home than in the office - perhaps a matter of internal shielding? But even at home in a absolutely quit room it's OK regarding sound and price. On stage, it is'nt worth talking about. Could be an issue when miking and recording but hey - who would drive a helix with a miked frfr monitor for recording? :rolleyes: So I did'nt talk about the best monitor available, but a good compromise between sound power size + weight features price If you know a better one, constructive hints are welcome ;)

i agree, but you did'nt list one more important point when it comes to deep bass: The linear displacement, because surface x displacement = moved air ;) Usually you will not be able to bring a speaker to it's electrical limit at let's say 40 Hz, because the displacement is the limiting factor. At higher frequencies, it becomes less to unimportant and the electrical power handling becomes limiting. The range of displacement ist huge between different speakers with the same size, so the moved air volume it it too. Some 15" move only +/- 1,5 mm, others are able to +/- 15 mm. It's ten times more moved air. Unfortunally i don't know the displacement of the driver. It's invisible from outside - perhaps i find the time to measure it. With the 300 W power and a large displacement, even this one 12" driver could be enough for me. From 100 Hz and above, it certainly will.

done! ;) today i received a pretty cheap monitor but with excellent reputation in it's class. It's "the box Mon 12A" wich i think everybody in Europe can buy for just 279 Euro, freight included. I't sold under different names, "proel" for example, but mostly sold as own brand from thomann. It has a class D 300 W Amp for the 12" and class AB 50W for the tweeter wich is integrated coaxial in the woofer. As often i'm close, i like coaxial speakers verry much. :wub: The wedge is a beauty in my eyes with connections and switches at one side wich makes it verry comfortable for me. It can be placed on three different sides allowing three different angles. After some hours burn in i linked it to the helix via XLR. There is some noise when you're nearby and a little hum. Both just at a level wich is bearable for me in my ultraquiet basement. Some customers praise the sound but are complaning abouit the noise. For hifi purpose, it would be to much for me but as instrument amplifire, for me it's ok. We talk about 350 W RMS with a speaker of probably 98 dB/W7m, so it will probably cost a lot more to make such a device virtually noiseless. About the sound: This thing sounds astonishing neutral to me. I think this would be difficult with a passive crossover, but as there seems to be a small DSP in it, it makes things much easier for the manufacturer. Guitar really sounds great and reacts well to every small tweak. i can't test the power in my room cause i'm afraid to bust some windows. There is a switch to enhance lows when using as foh, i really don't need this and like it more linear to minimize differences in live and recording sound. With bass, the sound is pretty linear, there's no deep end missing to my ears. I'll have to see up to wich level it stays like this to decide to keep it and buy a sacond or better to go for a 15". Im my 50 m² room i stopped at a level where i was afraid that windows and doors would brake in the vibrations. But on a real stage, i know there's another dimension. The manufacturer claims 124 dB SPL max, but i never trusted these values as there are no details published under wich conditions. I think we can forget about producing 124 dB of 40 Hz with a single 12" :lol: So for guitar, with a stereo setup and 2x 350W RMS, it should be enough for every situation. With bass, i'm still not shure. For the first day, i'm pretty happy with this device. Regarding the price and size, i'm close to speak about a miracle ;)

Hi, thanks a lot!! I have this patch and it sounds great, but it sounds still better in yout track. Did you use it "as it is" or did you tweak some parameters? Actually, i'm not familiar enough with the used blocks to modify them to a still more authentic organ sound. Or is it "just" your playing style that makes this patch to sound still more organ-ic? ;)

sounds great and i like the music!! can you tell how you "made" the organ part using the guitar?

no links needed as it is pretty simple: :) move the curser witth the joystick (just reight of the dieplay at the position you want to add something, then press the joystick. Choose whatever you want to put on this position. You can move blocks by moving the cursor to the block and then press "action". Move it to the desired position and press the joystick. Press "save" twice and you've changed the factory preset. If you want to save it to another place, press save only once and choose the desired location with the knobs under the diaplay before finally saving.

thanks for all yout hints!!! testing in a guitar store would be difficult as even a single 10" can produce low end at lower levels (with EQ, it's just a change deepbass <=> volume). I've ordered now a single 12" coaxial monitor with 350W RMS. For guitar it should really be enough and if this thing is OK for bass al low levels, i'll buy a second one. This gives me some options to use the Helix stereo abilities, to "go out" only with one speaker for smaller gigs with less weight and to use both 12" for bass. I think, this should be enough, but it won't probably leave much headroom.

Hi Zooey, sometimes things are just like that ;) So if the buffer is after the volume control, the resistive load did'nt change. So it's really just the capacity wich the pickups are missing, with your short cable about 110 pF. With this, there sould be no tonal difference from active to passive, except the bussfer is'nt linear.

I play guitar and sometimes bass with the helix. Mostly at home, but on small stages without PA too. Now i want to buy for different reasons one or two active frfr monitors. For guitar only, i would take a 12+1. For bass, i rather would take a 15+1. Both would be loud enough for me. What's the minimum for bass on small stages up to 300 people "against" acoustic drums and classic rock? Are 2x10"or 2x12? as powerful with bass as a 1x15" One monitor would be the cheaper solution and lighter than two, on the other hand i would like to try stereo wich i never did. In know that it depends on the quality of the systems, but provided the same quality, what would you prefer?

I'm out :P . Until i have'nt discovered at last 50 percent of all the possibilties, i really don't want to have more features. Did you, fastnloud, really explore all the amps with all the tweaking options? I'll bet that there are not verry much amps wich can't be reproduced with the existing models using all the little tweakers as bias,sag, mic, Distance, low and highcut.............. More important to me: Perfect stability and perhaps some cabs with less bright sound. Second one is no priority to me.