robbieb61

Got a new BOSE L1 Compact. It was delivered yesterday. All I can say is...wow! This sounds great! I'm using it tomorrow (Sunday) at a gig here in Vegas. And I'm really, really looking forward to this. The dispersion of this thing is incredible. The technology of the speaker allows it to sound great right in front of it and all the way to the back of the room. I LOVE the sound I get running the Helix through my DT50. But like any "old school" speaker (guitar amp OR even front of house PA speakers), you get a loud sound close up and a thin crappy sound 50 feet away. I set mine up yesterday in a part of my house that is two rooms combined and is over 40 feet in length. This thing sounded GREAT all the way through the two rooms. And I plugged my vocal mic into the microphone input of the L1. It sounds fantastic. Loud as hell and I can stand inches away facing the speaker using the microphone and have no feedback (the mic input has built in feedback suppression, compression, eq, etc.) I 100% recommend this to everyone. Got mine at Sweetwater on the 3 equal payment plan so it's not busting the bank. Whole system is under 30 pounds!

phil_m , would you mind making a short vid with your phone of YOU tuning on the Helix. I love my Helix...and I love the tuner display because it's so big and bright. And I would LOVE to see a guitar tuned on it where the tuning bars are stable and not jumping all over the place. I envy you that your unit is doing that. Would you mind doing that?

Phil, it doesn't make any sense to me that my tuner is pretty much unuseable, but the one on your Helix (and other people's) is just fine. All I know is that a tuner is a tuner. As Bangha just said...it SHOULD be able to be used to tune fast and accurately. Helix just jumps around the whole time. Even when I finally get a string in tune...I can pluck the string again and it's reading as out of tune by a few cents...and then proceeds to jump sharp and flat by a few cents. It drives me nuts! lol That's why I stuck the TU-2 in front of Helix. Accurate and fast. I don't WANT to do that. But I have one sitting here...so why not use it instead of whining about the Helix not behaving the way every tuner I've ever used since 1978 does? I have a question for ya...IF the tuner does have a problem with being "jumpy", would that be a hardware issue that just can't be solved? Or a software issue that might be resolved with a firmware update? And of course, since you and many others don't even have this problem on your own Helices...it makes the chances of ever "fixing" mine even more remote I suppose. :( I guess it might be one of those weird things that happen on some folks units and not on others? I do seriously doubt that anyone on this forum doesn't know how to use a tuner or are "doing it wrong". That's just a foolish thought. We've all successfully used tuners since the day we got serious about playing. So to say that only the Helix presents some kind of skill-set challenge to tune with isn't even a real possibility. You turn on tuner. You hit string, You tune string. Done. Not exactly rocket science. So when I tell you that my roomful of guitars are darn near impossible to tune with my Helix...but easily tuned with every other tuner I use....you can believe what I'm saying. :)

I don't "like" or "dislike" the Helix tuner. My Korg DTR 2000 rackmount tuner has that same accuracy spec. I can tune with it fast, while the Helix tuner is still jumping around. That's the point. It's not accuracy...it's the instability. I also can say that the tuner on my 17 year old Roland VGA-7 modeling amp works perfectly too. The Helix tuner just needs to get more stable and zero-in on the note I'm trying to tune. I went through a half-dozen of my guitars...and a ton of tuners I have here: Helix, Korg DTR2000, Boss Tuner Pedal, VGA-7 amp's tuner, clip-on tuner, and even an old Furman Power Conditioner with a built in tuner. They all seem to excel at "grabbing" the note quickly and allowing me to tune fast. The Helix...jumpy. It never seems to sit still for even a few milliseconds. I'm hopeful that they will find a way to fix that in the future. Back in Oct. of 2015 when I first got my Helix the FIRST thing I bragged about to the other guitarist in the band I was in was: "Check out how BIG the tuner is! I can see this baby on any stage!" So I want to use the Helix tuner. But I can't stand around onstage tuning for 2 or 3 minutes. I need to get in tune within seconds.

The tuner is not a strong point of the Helix. It's just that simple. I tried using it for a while (got my Helix in Oct of 2015). But I've given up on it over the last few months. I put my old Boss chromatic tuner pedal between my guitar and Helix. Fast, PRECISE tuning with that 20+ year old tuner . I remember going through a lot of tuners back in the 1980's looking for one that was accurate and easy to use. And the literature of the time touted the Boss as being great at capturing the note and "stabilizing" it. And that's how I'd describe the difference. For some reason the Helix tuner can't seem to zero in on the note and jumps all around. The Boss "old" technology is able to grab that note and lock it down to be tuned. I hooked up my Korg rack mount chromatic tuner before the Boss tuner which is before the Helix just to test. I also put my TC Electronic Polytune clip on tuner on my headstock. Hit the low "E"...all the tuners captured the note and had it stable for me to tune, except the Helix. The Helix tuner was jumping sharp to flat and just never settled down. I tried it with different guitars too. My main two axes I'm using at gigs right now are my Floyd Rose Redmond Series Model K and my Fender Custom Shop Jeff Beck strat. Same results: all my other tuners stable and Helix jumping. Hooked up my old Les Paul...same thing. Ibanez RG Prestige 2020....same thing. Not sure what the problem is with getting that tuner to calm down. But yes...I have the same "tuner problem" with Helix as has been reported by others. I just "fixed it" by putting my Boss tuner pedal in there. :)

DunedinDragon...I saw Walsh with the Eagles a couple of years back here in Vegas at The MGM. He had the BEST "woody" sound in concert. I mean he had THE tone. Yeah, he has a great studio sound too...but LIVE, his sound was on another level.

Just saw it on Sweetwaters mailer today.

I wonder what the guys at Line 6 use to listen and tweak out the models they work on? What I mean is...let's say they model an old Marshall amp using whatever it is the method is to capture the amp sound and create the model. Then they go to play back the model they just worked on to see if it really sounds just like the amp they modeled (which of course would be an "amp in the room" that everyone keeps saying is NOT what the Helix is supposed to sound like). What are they using to compare the real amp with the model to make sure it sounds the same? If we had the answer to that question...then we could ALL get that same setup to use for our Helices and the debate would be over. :)

I made one preset with 8 snapshots with IR's and copied that to another preset with 8 snapshots and then removed the IR's to use with the L6 link into my DT50 amp. Amazingly they sound real, real close except the DT50 sounds a tad more "buttery" thanks to tubes. Give that a try. :)

:) Just kidding with ya. And of course "happy wife, happy life" :)

Looking ahead a couple of years to version 4.20 and wondering what the posts on that one will look like. :lol:

You are a wise man Peter.... p.s.: see you at the strip club later, bring extra cash for the VIP room girls. lol

Peter your wife must look at this site every once in a while....you were awfully quick to qualify your statement! lol

You're right Peter...you don't get paid, you don't get laid! lol :)

Just reading about the Mission Gemini 2 on Sweetwater's site. That setup actually has a setting which gets rid of the FRFR and uses the traditional guitar frequencies to make the modeler sound better! lol Here's a quote: "But we found that the added highs can run a bit harsh when you're going after more organic guitar tones. That's why we love the Gemini 2's EmPower EQ control, which allows you to blend between a flat EQ curve or a more typical guitar cab's present mids and rolled off highs." https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GM2BT1?adpos=1o1&creative=55281441601&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&product_id=GM2BT1&gclid=Cj0KEQjwk-jGBRCbxoPLld_bp-IBEiQAgJaftXievoEyOmaA3--2x671qpsixNhBChdjMLu0ZMAsOf0aAvu98P8HAQ So the newest generation of FRFR cab is now set up so it can be used....NOT FRFR. You gotta admit...that's kinda funny. :)

I believe if I were Line 6 I'd be in the middle of releasing a new FRFR active cab with D class power that weighed about 10 pounds and is matched perfectly to the Helix. Talk about a pre-existing market just waiting to be serviced...

I don't know how to say "I always had my amp angled back AND coming at me blasting loud through my floor monitor" any other way to convince you that my amp sound never was harsh and never needed any high-cut. It doesn't matter anyway. It is what it is. Again, I can't help but think I'm losing something by having to hi-cut the whole processed guitar sound at the end of the chain. I'm pretty sure that on a long sustained note as it goes into harmonic feedback there is something being lost there. Can't say for sure...because when I get the note sustaining like that and bypass the EQ the difference in sound fools my ears anyway at that point. Anyway, it was just a thought. :) Thanks for the discussion.

But I never pointed my amp at my knees. I always played in pro bands doing rock music and usually had a road manager who would raise hell if you were blowing offstage like that. And to cruisinon2, I get what you are saying. But you wouldn't be correct. Once I dialed in an amp through a 4x12 speaker...it never sounded harsh up close. That's how I dialed it in...right on top of it. And I always used a stand to angle my cabs back to hit my ears as well as having it pumped back to me through the monitor mix. Oh well...I just wish that the "fizz" wasn't there at all. I really love the Helix and like all of you I'm able to hi-cut that out. I just wonder why on Earth they would make it that way on purpose (which I don't believe they did...I think it's just the limits of the technology) so that we wouldn't have to pull back those harsh fizzy frequencies. Did they model an amp and say: "Yep, that sounds fizzy right about....THERE. Now the users can struggle to figure out a way to get the amp to sound good! Our job is done!" I don't think they would do that. My only question was...aren't we LOSING some of the tone and harmonic distortion that is pleasing to the ear by having to artificially cut frequencies to get rid of the ones that are unpleasing? And IF the whole idea is to get a sound that is the same one you would get AFTER mic'ing up an amp and putting it through a mixer and processors, etc. Then why would we need to FURTHER eq it after that? See what I'm saying? If it isn't an "amp in the room" then we shouldn't have to fight off fizz with hi-cuts to begin with. If it's an amp that is already processed and mic'ed up...then that shouldn't be necessary I would think. And it has to be taking away from the tone we COULD achieve if the hi-cut fizz removal wasn't needed.

I pretty much always either had a great soundman (when I was touring) or did sound myself on my own P.A. (later years as a weekend warrior). I also use a PA Drive Rack to EQ my P.A. "flat". Having said all of that...about the only thing I ever did was BOOST the high-mid very slightly on my channel. Used a SM 57 about midway between the center and outer part of the cone. I've always had a pretty good guitar sound no matter what rig I used. And I always worked hard to make sure my sound out front was the same as what was coming out of my amp speaker too. I also kept my 4x12 cab on a stand that pointed it "up" and kept as low a stage volume as I could. And then I have always CRANKED my guitar up through my wedge monitor so I could clearly hear every note. Didn't matter if it was my Marshall Double Stack, my Boogie stack, or even my Bogner Ecstasy and Bogner Greenback 4x12...I STILL always came back in the monitor mix to hear what was going on and make sure that what I was putting out there sounded identical to what was coming out of my amp. And as I understand what you are saying...the Helix is supposed to replicate the sound of a "real" amp being mic'ed up and coming through the P.A. or studio mixer. Then why does it need to have high cut put on it to do that???? See what I'm saying? If sounding like it's an amp that is mic'ed up and processed is what is being told to us that the Helix is doing...then shouldn't THAT be what it already sounds like without having to put a high cut just to get rid of nasty fizz? As I said earlier...my worry is that I'm losing harmonics and frequencies that add to the sustain of the instrument when I am forced to artificially EQ my signal. It's VERY obvious when you use a clean sound. You put that high cut on it and it just takes away all the sparkle and liveliness of the sound. I can only assume that it's taking away from the high gain sound too. I'm getting a great sound...don't get me wrong. Very happy. Just questioning WHY we have to apply a high cut to a model of a very nice tube amp. Just seems like something isn't right in the first place if you have to put a high cut on it to get it to sound good. :)

On the subject of EQ and filtering.... I'm using a cut at the end of my chain on my distorted amp sounds to tame the highs. I do it to get rid of the "fizz". Works fine. But I have that EQ "off" with my clean sound because it takes away the chime. I can't help but think that using that cut is taking away sustain and harmonics on the crunch and lead sounds of the amps. And if I don't use the cut...it doesn't seem to matter how much EQ'ing I do on the amp model itself...it will still have that "fizz" unless I make it sound like it's covered in a blanket. I certainly wish that modeled amps could do as advertised and sound like the amp they are modeled after (the high gain ones that is). I love the sound I'm getting. But it just seems to me that the modeling of the high gain amps isn't "good" enough if you have to put high cuts on it to get it to sound good. I never used anything like that at all on any "real" amp I ever owned. They had the sound...or I never would have bought any of those amps. Not complaining (or maybe I am a bit)...But doesn't using a high cut take away some from the natural harmonics and sustain of the final sound produced?

My Helix sounds AWESOME straight to the P.A. system and coming back at me through my floor wedge monitor. Having said that...the OP is correct. As great as it sounds, when I use the L6 Link into my DT 50 tube amp...it becomes a beast. I sold my Bogner Ecstasy head because I just didn't need it anymore. That's how good it sounds. Just something about adding in real tubes that warms it up so nicely. I made two identical presets with 8 snapshots each...one with IR's and one without (for the DT 50) So when I'm playing a small gig I'll just use the Helix without the amp. And when I A/B the two presets at home...they sound ALMOST identical. The only difference being a bit more natural harmonics in the distortion and sustain with the DT50 being used. And just an indescribable "warmth" that is slightly more pleasing to the ear. At first I was turning off all the cabs inside the DT50 with DTEdit. But then I thought about it and turned on the 1X12 celestion cab in the DT 50 because that's what mine is: the DT50 112. I did that so that the xlr output on the DT50 would have a cab sim on it and I wanted it to sound as close o what I'm hearing come out of the speaker on the amp as possible. And man, it sounds tremendous.

Robin Trower! He was kinda touted as the "white Hendrix" back in the day. Opened up for him at Brassy's in Cocoa Beach Fla. in 1987. It was pretty cool and he played great.

Congrats on getting your Helix! I went from the HD500 to the Helix back in Oct. of 2015. Very happy with that move! And that was long before the many improvements that have occurred since (like Snapshots). Enjoy!

Here's what I read about Andy Summers rig he was using back then: "At the very beginning of the birth of The Police, Andy Summers' rig was rather sparse. To Guitar Player magazine he revealed: “I had simple tools: a Telecaster, a Fender Twin, and maybe an MXR Phase 90. The next thing I got was a chorus, and that, along with the Echoplex, became very characteristic of the Police sound." And of course he famously used Roland guitar synths with the GK pickup on stuff like "Don't Stand So Close To Me" and cool stuff on Synchronicity.

Must be, I didn't see a "spread" parameter and I'm running in Mono Makes sense...