cruisinon2

An acoustic problem can't be solved with more/different gear if the real issue is a lack of understanding about what's going on. Acoustic physics and the Fletcher-Munson curve don't change based on what kind of rig you have. The room you're standing in doesn't care if you have a Marshall stack or a Helix, and your brain will interpret the relative loudness of different frequency ranges the same way every time, no matter what the source of that sound is. And there's only so many things to adjust. If you're hearing mud, there's too much bass...pull it back. If it's screeching at you like nails on a chalkboard, trim the highs. If it sounds full and balanced by itself but disappears in a mix, then you need a mid boost. I played tube rigs with a 4x12 cab for a couple of decades, and it was the exact same drill... if there's too much of something, get rid of it. Not enough of something else? Boost it. Lather, rinse, repeat...

There's only so many ways to keep saying the same thing. The answer is the same as it has been all along....EQ. What sounds magnificent outside of a mix will often sound irretrievably awful (and/or disappear) in a mix. The converse is equally true. But that's got absolutely nothing to do with volume, or Helix... never did, never will. When you have multiple instruments, inevitably there is frequency overlap... they're competing for the same sonic space. It's a delicate balancing act to get it all right. The rig is irrelevant... you'll eventually run into the exact same problem with a different modeler, a 1x12 combo, or a wall of Marshall cabinets.

Your biggest hurdle is monitoring. The Katana is a dead end. You cannot run an entire band through a single 12" guitar speaker and expect anything but mud. For starters, it lacks sufficient frequency response for bass, keys, synths, etc. Nobody will be able to hear themselves, or much of anything else... it'll just be discordant noise. If you can't fund everything at once, then at the very least get the other interface suggested above, and the rest of the band can be responsible for showing up with their own headphones. That way everyone can dial in the mix they need...if you can't hear, you can't play, and everything is over before it starts.

This was the question you asked, so that's what I answered. Now you're posing a different question entirely... none of us are mind readers. Giving out bits and pieces of what you're trying to accomplish will make it very difficult for anyone to help you, nevermind the fact that what you're trying to do is beyond cumbersome. Recording an entire band live, with no headphones, and nothing to monitor through except a 1x12 combo guitar amp is simply not feasible...

If you are determined to record more than one instrument simultaneously (though I'd advise against it) use the aux input. However, you can only have one preset loaded at any given time. What you can do is keep signal paths A and B isolated in whatever patch you're using, and their input/output blocks and signal chains assigned accordingly.... but the whole mess will be contained within one preset.

Amen.

Try talking a scotch drinker out of liking his favorite bottle... you won't. The cork sniffer has two defining characteristics: 1) He's right. 2) His perception/palate/ standards/etc are keener and more "evolved" than yours. You'll never convince the cork sniffer of anything, because that would mean either: 1) He was actually wrong about something. or 2) There's something good out there in the world that somehow escaped his heightened awareness of all things wonderful. Either option would cause too much cognitive dissonance for the cork sniffer to handle, and his Waterford crystal-bedazzled psyche would crumble.

Are you trying to monitor everything (drums, synths, etc) through the Katana? That's gonna sound like boiled crap... it's a guitar amp. You can't mix multitrack recordings with it. Even trying to play along with songs or backing tracks will sound awful. You need a pair of studio monitors and/or decent studio reference headphones. And you can ditch the mixer and interface... they aren't necessary at all. Helix is a fully functional interface all by itself. You've got way too many moving parts that you don't need, and you're missing the one thing that's genuinely necessary...a clean, flat response way to monitor everything.

You'll get the same answer everywhere...Line 6 divulges next to nothing, and those "in the know" can't/ won't/ don't talk. But if I had to guess, I'd say the answer is no. The one and only time anyone official showed up in here trying to gauge interest in a wireless VDI unit, the quoted price of $1000 was mostly scoffed at... there were a handful who seemed willing to pay the price of the guitar itself (or even more if you own a Standard) for a wireless, but most found it rather amusing. Don't hold your breath.

Amen. Any subtle nuances that one might notice playing unaccompanied whilst dialing in a patch vanish in a live mix anyway.... we all worry WAY too much about this $hit, lol. Play... have fun. Life is short. The gear I have now gives me the best, most consistent sound I've had in 25 years of doing this... I wish I had stuff this good when I was just getting started.

I'm sorry....but a two second, eye-rolling appraisal from the local music store "rock star" isn't worth two wet farts. I've met that guy a thousand times over the years... and if you're impressed by that sort of a$$hat, I don't know what to tell ya. If he's that wonderful, what's he doing jockeying the counter at a music store? Nevermind...I know the answer. What exactly do you think this proves? I mean other than the fact that the guy's a d1ck....There are plenty of pros and amateurs alike who get excellent results with modelers from various manufacturers. They're not hard to find... youtube is drowning in them. Numerous live acts have embraced the whole "quiet stage" thing. It's everywhere. If they all sounded like $hit, nobody would use them, and the whole guitar playing community didn't suddenly go deaf. You either know how to use the gear, or you don't. But it certainly is easier to blame the box isn't it?

That's all true, but it is completely independent of volume, which is almost entirely what your original post was about. Those who struggle with digital gear, do so with headphones, studio, monitors, straight to a PA, etc. etc.... and all at a variety of volumes. The problem is not the chosen output device, or what Helix's "primary function" is or isn't. It's a lack of experience with modelers, and/or an understanding of how to apply EQ to produce a desired result.

The way we perceive sound is not at all tied to the source of that sound... it's simply a function of amplitude. Volume affects tone whether your rig is digital or not, and dialing in sounds you like at wildly different volumes is a challenge no matter what you're playing through. The fact that you find the factory presets usable at lower volumes is just dumb luck, and doesn't prove much of anything on a grand scale. I can't stand any of them no matter what volume they're played at... As for the primary purpose of Helix, I'd have to say it's to enable you to bring an "album ready" tone into a live environment... why else would the hardware exist? If all I wanted to do was record, I could have bought Native and an interface, and spent a fraction of the money.

Watch some Helix-specific YouTube tutorials, particularly a guy named Jason Sadites. If you're completely new to modeling, trying to guess your way through it tends to be rather unsatisfying, and you won't gain much insight into how the unit works by using ready-made presets. There's a learning curve at the beginning... everybody goes through it.

You can try if you like, but I stand by my description. The issue is not universal, otherwise I'd have the same problem. Stuff that falls into the "it affects some folks and not others" category tend not to be at the top of anybody's to-do list... particularly if they don't even know why that's the case. It's not peculiar to L6... just the way the cookie tends to crumble.

I'm just guessing based on my experience, but the issue would seem to be the computer's horsepower, because I run them both on a fairly robust Macbook Pro and have never had anything crash/freeze/etc.... if I'm right, I wouldn't hold out too much hope for a "fix" for something that isn't a universal problem. There's not much L6 can do for machines that can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Or the stars happened to align just right, and I'm the only one for whom it works... who knows? Computers are weird.

Line 6 divulges next to nothing, and those "in the know" can't/ won't/ don't talk. But if I had to guess, I'd say the answer is no. The one and only time anyone official showed up in here trying to gauge interest in a wireless VDI unit, the quoted price of $1000 was mostly scoffed at... there were a handful who seemed willing to pay the price of the guitar itself (or even more if you own a Standard) for a wireless, but most found it rather amusing. Don't hold your breath.

You will forever be disappointed trying to use patches created by someone else, with a different rig, monitoring set-up, guitar, etc. etc....way too many variables.

The loudest part... ;)

Can Helix do what you want? Yes. Whether or not you'll like it is another question entirely, and unfortunately there's only one way to find out. Modelers are very different from a tube amp and a bunch of pedals, and many players... probably most... have a rather steep learning curve to overcome at the beginning. Do not expect to pull it out of the box, plug in, and be instantly thrilled with what you hear. It almost never happens. Check out some youtube vids on patch creation... particularly Jason Sadites' channel. It'll very likely take toy a while to wrap your head around what to do, not to do, etc.

This.

Nobody can answer that for you... you're asking us to predict what will end up being a personal preference for one unit over another. That can't be done. Imho, if you're at least semi-conscious and have a basic understanding of modelers and EQ, then you should be able to get a decent sound from anything.... but it won't just fall in your lap. Ultimately, you have to make a decision and do the grunt work. If you're not satisfied with the results, get something else...but it's always a bit of a gamble. That's why there's used gear everywhere. If one thing doesn't work out for you, cut your losses and find something that does.

The ugly truth is this: the individual guitar you get will either suffer from the "plink" issue, or it won't. Nobody, including L6, has been able to come up with a satisfactory explanation as to why it affects some users and not others. It's all been debated to death around here for years... the cause(s), fixes (both homespun remedies and official "try this or that" offerings from L6), conspiracy theories, etc etc. Those who have the problem either find something that alleviates it, send the instrument back for another one, or decide that Variax just isn't for them. All that being said, mine works just fine and has for years... it's a JTV, not the Shuriken, but the modeling engine is the same. I play a variety of stuff, and I like high gain tones as much as the next child of the 80's, and I have no plink problems. Ymmv...

No matter what speakers you pick, how big they are, or where you put them, the process is always exactly the same: 1) Pick a sane volume. 2) EQ until you're happy with the way it sounds. 3) If you deviate significantly (in either direction) from the aforementioned volume, repeat #2. So much depends on the listening environment, and one's personal definition of what sounds "good", that it makes these discussions almost entirely fruitless. My "special sauce" won't necessarily work for anybody else. Just do it...turn knobs until you don't need to turn them anymore. If you're even half awake, you'll know when you're done.... And now for the really crappy truth: What sounds magnificent today, might not tomorrow. And no it's not the gear, it's you. In the absence of some obvious and significant malfunction, the gear and the room are the same as they were yesterday. But you might not be. Maybe you're just playing like crap today, or you're cranky because you sat in traffic for an extra hour on the way home, or your dog died. Perception can be influenced by damn near anything. There are no absolutes, and no magic formulas.

Ear fatigue is one thing... that'll happen even at low to moderate volumes if the session lasts long enough. But actual pain is something else entirely. I don't care how "uninspiring" you find sane, moderate volumes...if you're playing so loud that it actually hurts, then you are doing irreparable damage to your hearing. That damage is cumulative, and you will not get it back. How inspiring do you suppose it is to go deaf? Turn it down... And just in case this comes across as a public service announcement, I did plenty of damage to my own ears in my teens and early 20's. By the time I was 25, I started getting tinnitus. After a rather stern warning from a hearing specialist, I started wearing custom fit, flat response earplugs at every gig and show I attend. No exceptions. 20+ years later, and in a quiet enough room, I can still hear some ringing to this day. I was stupid.... you don't have to be.