stevevnicks

thanks a lot this helps me out a lot, understand the naming used for the amps for when i buy the packs.

I think for me being new to the guitars and effects, although I understand hardware and computers (which what an HD500\X is, or all effects, a mini computer) anyway im just saying as I am a little surprised. I would of thought when the POD HD range were designed they would of only loaded it with patches that could be used in any combo, so that the DSP could handle the work load and not hit its limit with the software supplied, either that or used a more powerful DSP from the start. im not moaning, I am happy with what the hd500 can do and understand its limits due to its limited hardware. although I can understand those who are not happy about it, if they do not understand the hardware limits of the DSP used by the HD500 or 500X I think some people have to keep in mind the POD HD500\X is not the be all and end all solution for effects you may have to combine it with other hardware to get the result you desire. thing to take into account, these units HD500\500x only have one DSP which has to process AMP models and multi amounts of effects all at once. if you say have a unit that has at least 2 DSP's one dedicated to AMP models and the second DSP dedicated to Effects processing you would be a lot less likely to run into the issue, although the DSP limits could be hit depending on how complex the software is used

PMSL :)

Quote "Interesting that the clock speed and MIPS are identical, so these processors spit out one instruction for every tic of the processor. Sounds reasonable, but i was always under the impression most modern processors don't line up this way." the New ADI SHARC Gen4 ADSP 21469 runs at only 450Mhz and hits 1600 MAC's (Max) and 800 Mips (max) which I think would be quite an respectable upgrade if Line 6 uses an ADI SHARC ADSP again for there DSP if/when they release a new type of pod HD or even UHD to upgrade the HD500X, the new gen 4 ADSP would cost the same I think as the current ADSP the HD500X uses so would be a grate upgrade at he same kind of price range product. although the Gen4 ADSP is probs based on a newer SHARC architecture with newer instruction sets .. don't quote me on it though lol But I feel the path line 6 will choose is stick with the HD500X until ADI stops production of the ADSP 21369 400Mhz Chip, probs keep going for maybe another 1 year maybe 2 at push before production ends, either way ADI's 21369 gen 3 chip (at some point) has been/going to be replaced by the newer Gen 4 series chips, which ADI already has in production and sells, current price around £21 per chip if I remember correctly and probs a lot cheaper when bought in large batchments. which I think would mean for Line 6 a completely new design main PCB for the newer chip, that would probs mean a new product .. just guessing though ... better add these are just my thoughts, not saying they are fact.

ah ok sounds fair enough, so in that case, it would be best to release it for the product that's still in production first.

I don't believe or find it hard to, so are Line 6 only a small company and only have the resources to work on one firmware at a time ? even though they both use the same chip architecture. ? seems odd to me.

Quote "HD500 series by virtue of DSP architectural differences personally" there are no architectural differences they use the same gen.3 ADI SHARC ADSP 21369 the only difference is the HD500x runs 67Mhz faster HD500 333Mhz 666 MAC's (max) 333Mips (max) ADSP 21369 KSWZ-2A (333MHz) no longer made HD500X 400Mhz 800 MAC's (max) 400Mips (max) ADSP 21369 KSWZ-6A (400Mhz) still in production http://www.analog.com/en/products/processors-dsp/sharc/adsp-21369.html#product-overview HD500X DSP so thats not the reason.

do not worry they will update the HD500 what I don't understand why they holding the HD500 firmware back? as both the HD500 and the HD500X use the same software to program the chips, which are the same chip, no new instruction set for the newer 400mhz chip to get to grips with or give an avantage so ? well it's not even a newer chip on the HD500X, just runs 67mhz faster than the chip they used before. the 400mhz chip was released the same time as the 333mhz only ADI who makes the chip stopped making the 333mhz version, so Line 6 had to use the 400mhz chip hence the release of the X variants so why hold back on the release for HD500 ? the chips are no different to program, are they not ?

yea, you can see why the AxeFX II is so tasty with 2 of those chips, still it's out of my price range :( so the POD HD is the next best thing for me. an Axe FX II running 2x ADSP-TS201S 600mhz chips can calculate 9600Mips (Million Instructions per Second) (but costs 10x More per DSP than the DSP inside the HD500x) HD500X uses the 3rd Gen ADSP 21369 chip, running at 400Mhz can calculate 400Mips (Million Instructions per Second) you can see the why the AxeFX II is so good, with 2 DSP's 4800 MIPS per DSP on tap vs the POD HD500X with 1 DSP and 400MIPS on tap still the reality is the cost, and that where the POD HD500\500X shines, in its price range it's robust build quality, effects, sound quality, wealth of inputs and the ability to tweak the sounds and effects along with long term support, its a no brainer. im not saying the POD HD is a budget device, because its not, the POD HD is a quality device, your just getting what you pay for in the terms of hardware processing power. the POD HD500\X is still more than viable an option, I know I made the right move buying one, and i will not be get rid/selling it. this device is a keeper for me. just to much fun to be had with my HD500 for the money. like I have already said being new to the line 6 and the POD HD500, I was worried I bought an expensive Toy after reading a few half assed reviews. this prompted me to look into the chip Line 6 chose to go with and the tech behind the chip. all in all I happy with what I found out. this brings me back to the reviews found on these devices why dose the reviewer never talk about the hardware inside the box in any depth ? I want to know what chip the unit is using and the tech behind the chip, not that you pulg it in twist this twist that sound like this lol at least if they going to review a effects device or any digital device, go into some detail about the Chip\s Used to create the sound, because they are what count the most .

heeh I'll just look at it as the HD500X users are beta testing the firmware before us HD500 users get it ;) .. although would be nice to have a date whats taking them ? it based on the same code. I guess really they just giving the HD500X users first dibs :) I thought Line 6 was a big company or do they only have one HD500 test kit and 1 programmer lol .. sorry only j/k Line 6.

Quote BillBee "That said - just wait until you run across a guy who with a $20 stomp and cheap amp makes you want to throw the guitar out the window. Humbling." lol yea I cant play the guitar yet, but you wait till I can, umm can ya wait around 20 years lol .. so at the moment a 2 year old with an elastic band over a cardboard box can put my guitar skills to shame, but at least I will have the better tone :P what would be nice is a POD HD/UHD based on 2 x ADSP-21369 KSWZ-6A 400Mhz or even better the ADSP 4th Gen chips.. wonder what such an item would cost ? the only reason the HD500X exists is because line 6 decided to use the 333mhz version ADSP for the HD500, which ADI no longer makes. the only ADSP option line 6 would have at this point to keep cost production low and stick with same PCB layout of HD500, was to move to 400mhz ADSP using the same Gen 3 architecture. the 400Mhz ADSP 21369 gen 3 is the only Gen 3 ADSP still being made, all other Gen 3 ADSP's (333mhz versions) have past ADI's life cycle for the product. it has nothing to do the being newer Gen Chip, just the fact they cant buy the 333Mhz ADSP anymore, the HD500X seems to me to be is a simple re solder of 400mhz ADSP with Firmware update for Line 6, and new buttons\lights\screen ... sorry about all the adds (heh) just like to end on the software side of things. there are no difference in the software HD500 or HD500X can run, other than the HD500X should have the slight upper hand in amount of effects/amps that can be run at once. so really there is no reason for the HD500 not to be supported for as long as the HD500X maybe the HD500X might end up with slightly better Versions for HD AMPS or EQ options that the HD500 owners will have live with out, who knows lol im just guessing now :) im sure the ADSP's share the same amount of resourse but the speed the HD500x gives it the edge at a guess. simply put, the HD500X's ADSP can do the same job\effect as the HD500, only process the data faster to move on to the next process\task HD500 uses the 3rd Gen ADSP 21369 chip, running at 333Mhz can calculate 333Mips (Million Instructions per Second) HD500X uses the 3rd Gen ADSP 21369 chip, running at 400Mhz can calculate 400Mips (Million Instructions per Second) how that will pan out in the real world, will be depending on how many instructions are used for any give task\s per clock cycle, so obs the 400Mhz version will end up in front of the 333mhz version, at same given task\s, give the fact they are exactly the same architecture and Gen DSP . ADI has a new flagship DSP to replace the Gen 3 ADSP 21369 series, being the Gen 4 ADSP-21469 series chips, running at 450Mhz can calculate 900Mips (Million Instructions per Second) same price range as the gen 3 that's a nice DSP upgrade path. (cost of chip per unit £19.58) couple of those in 1 device and call it the POD UHD or something, then you could have silly amounts of fun. Benchmarks results http://www.analog.com/en/design-center/landing-pages/001/sharc-benchmarks.html as some people have pointed out they feel it could do with more DSP power, the cost of the Chip its self you might think that's a cheap part! you have remember the amount of time/money it would of taken in R&D alone to bring us the HD range from scratch based on the ADSP 21369 chips which are still very capable chip's and very well suited to the task at hand. I can honestly say at the Price point of the HD500X the Quality and the control of the sounds you have is very good value for money. just imagine the leaps forward in raw power the DSP would of made in the next 5 years purist will probs hate it, the new will probs embrace it. the tech will only ever keep getting better, giving people the chance to be creative in ways they haven't been before. there will aways be a need for the real thing though. and for the Axe-FX Users they also Use an ANALOG DEVICES made chip The ADSP TigarSHARC which has more power than the ADSP 21369 chips. http://www.analog.com/en/products/processors-dsp/tigersharc-processors.html#tigersharc-processors

yeah im the same with PC hardware, I don't skimp out on things and think nothing of spending £130 just on things like the PSU. I often tear down some items, just to take a look if I cant find the info im wanting to know, im a geek like that. saying that im trying to sell an intel i7 PC based PC, which would cost at todays internet prices (using same parts) over 2k (comes with triple screens AOC monitors) only built 7 months ago, and cant even get £1K for it lol .. (I want spend the money on an varizx guitar if I can sell it :/) getting more into guitars and effects so I feel the Line 6 HD, HD500\HD500X Range has a lot to offer and a good place to start.

yes I agree, and can see that now. I am just glad to find out the hardware tech behind the Line 6 HD500\500X range is, in fact quite good, and I have made a good choice to buy one, Not just an expensive toy (my biggest fear lol) the biggest problem I have found with the reviews about the HD500X they have failed to go into detail about the CHIP and the history/pedigree of its tech that's being used, often just relying on company released spec/info. when really they should do a tear down first to sum up the product. giving the poss customer\end user, a much more informative buying decision, knowing what the full story is with the product as such. if I was Line 6 marketing I would be Screaming about the tech behind the ADSP-21369 (400Mhz) the HD500X is using at least in the spec's on the box PUT using the powerful ADSP-21369 (400Mhz) DSP lol or words to that effect :) that would be a nice little bit of tech info to know about the effects box your going to buy its proven, the more tech info you give to your customers the more you will tempt them, even those who don't understand it lol

To have made the HD500X a worthy reason to upgrade for the HD500 owners, they should of used the ADSP 21469 (450Mhz) the fourth Gen. ADSP Sharc http://www.analog.com/en/products/processors-dsp/sharc/adsp-21469.html#product-overview although in fairness the HD500X's ADSP-21369 KSWZ-6A 400Mhz is still classed by Analog Devices product life cycle rating stattus as : Production meaning : "At least one model within this product family is in production and available for purchase. The product is appropriate for new designs but newer alternatives may exist." the bad news for my HD500 is its full of Fujicon Cap's http://www.fujicon.com/en/company_history.php :/ which along with quite a few companys have less than a stellar history for the quality of the caps they made back in 2010, so as for the quality of the Cap's in this unit I can see where the cost savings for Line 6 have been made. although I am sure Fujicon have changed there way's these days ? A sure sign your product/investment is of high quality build is seeing good brand of Japanese CAP's chances are if they used cheap brand of Cap's then well... were else did they cut back on build quality? in order to make a profit viable item to sell? http://www.capacitorlab.com/low-esr-capacitor-manufacturers/ even so, after seeing what parts are being used inside of this box of tricks I would have no hesitation in recommending the HD500 or the HD500X based on the Tech its using (not so much the on the parts like the Fujicon Cap's but they haven't failed so they must be of the good batch if this unit I own was built in 2010) still happy for what I paid :D

put it this way now I know the full tech behind The HD500, I am more than happy with what they have come up with, and so should everyone who owns the HD500 its good tech, keep it I would say. would I buy the HD500X ? not now I own the HD500 if I was in the market for a new Effects pedal would I buy the HD500X ? 100% yes should last a fair while (as should the HD500) all in all not a bad investment. the good news for me (or all) at least is the HD500 uses exactly the same ADSP Generation tech as the HD500X apart from an 66Mhz Speed bump which I guess is a bonus for new adopters of the POD HD series of products deffo not really a reason to upgrade from the HD500 for me. HAPPY DAYS I ONLY PAID £260 :) and for those who say they cant get a good tone out of the HD500 then? ... I would of thought it would be hard not to find a tone you like with all the options this thing has, must be doing something wrong or other hardware not suited ?? gwad knows, you have so much choice .. surly they could find something they like with it lol? after reading in to the ADSP's tech, I now know that not being able to finding the "tone" is deffo not down to the hardware tech that's inside the of HD500 lol ...

ok your correct the HD500 uses the ADSP-21369KSWZ-2A 333 MHz 2M bit 6M bit 208-Lead LQFP_EP based chip and I guess the HD500X is using the ADSP-21369KSWZ-6A 400 MHz 2M bit 6M bit 208-Lead LQFP_EP based chip so I am happy to keep with my HD500 :) tech data behind the HD500's Gen 3 ADSP-21369 (333Mhz) (The HD500 and HD500X are using the Gen3 ADSP as its in the number eg. ADSP-21(3)69KSWZ 333mhz Gen 3 ) http://www.datasheetlib.com/datasheet/47373/adsp-21369kswz-2a_adi-analog-devices-inc.html?page=3#datasheet The ADSP 21(4)69 is an 4th Gen ADSP

spaceatl that's the sort of info I like to read and look at lol im the same with GPU's APU's, CPU's and now audio DSP's, the tech behind the chip. I will look to see what rev. ADSP my HD500 has give me 5 mins I will look for numbers on the chip.. the chip in my HD500 is the ADSP-21369 I think it says KSWZ-2A cant quite make it out :/ me old eyes failing me heeh I cant find any info on a gen 1 or 2 ADSP-21369 only the 400Mhz gen 3 I have look futher into it. one odd thing the Main PCB in my POD HD500 says POD X4 Live Main PCB Rev c, 11.01.2010

oh I have no dout line 6 make a nice buck on there device, after all that's business, I am just trying to say that the HD500 should be up to the job Line 6 intened it to be used for and quite nicely for most people, although they will always be those who expect\want more for there money. doesn't automatically make it superior to "X" comparison I was not comparing to anything, I was reading about the tech behind the chip and the chip is a good choice for the job. some people will try and make the POD HD500 sound like its made out of old cheap parts like those found in an stylophone if they don't like it. just how some people are I guess?

the info that im reading is about, the ADSP-21369 inside the HD500 it's the same based SHARC DSPs used in £2k and upwards costing devices, the dsp used in the HD500 is proven tech used in other devices, although those devices use 18 or more SHARC based DSP's like the albeit only 1 Used in the HD500 and HD500X, so I was just saying its good tech to have, read up about the ADSP-21369, I thought at first maybe the tech inside this was going to be dubious ? after I had read, what a few people have said, when in fact its based on proven tech, that should give longevity to the end user, what wrong with saying that, if your the expert ? oh and the fact Analog Devices who make the chip should know what they are doing, thats a good hint. http://www.analog.com/en/about-adi.html oh and about the HD500X I was wanting to know the model number of the ADSP that's being used I am guessing ?? and only guessing the HD500X uses the : ADSP 21469 High Performance Fourth Generation DSP running at 450Mhz ?maybe? http://www.analog.co...roduct-overview Line 6 does not build the DSP from the ground up or anywhere really, they have just sourced the best parts they can get for the buck and build/design us a very fair product for the money based on proven hardware, its down to line 6 to get the programming correct for the device. I guessing they Line 6 among other companys are similar to the like of asus, msi, gigabyte who all build computer parts but the chips they will use for say for graphics cards from low end to high end are made by NVidia or AMD, the said companys buy the same chip and put there branding on it some charge more than others for the same chip but the board will be using higher end japanese capacitors etc.

hello, being a bit of a tech head (been into computers and related hardware for about 14 years as hobby and private work) I like to get into the tech side of hardware and see what hardware is worth buying, not based just on the hardware spec's listed on the products website, but also the chips that are used to create the product i'm buying. after starting to get into guitars and effects just lately and buying a second hand, Mint condition (still boxed) HD500 for only £260, I decided to have a look at the chips being used to create the effects/tones in this device, after all its these important parts that will decide the end result being produced, oh and the skill of the software programmers to get the best use out of the hardware. it turns out Line 6 choice of ADSP that's being used in the HD500 is a really good choice for this product even more at the price point of the HD500 second hand price, for all the haters of the POD HD500, Who will say they are rubbish or over hyped etc, I hate to break this to you .. but the hardware being used in the HD500 Is really good and proven tech. POD HD500 owners should relax, knowing the tech Line 6 is using and giving us, at such cheap prices, its a steel. The ADSP-21369 used inside the HD500 is used in other audio devices such as : http://www.analog.com/en/education/education-library/creamware-audio-reproduces-vintage-sounds.html I will quote : "SHARC: You Never Have to Compromise" As previously stated, CreamWare has been using ADI's SHARC DSPs since 1997, and most of the company's SCOPE line includes the processors. "We are enthusiastic about SHARC technology and love to spread the word," said Hund. CreamWare's SCOPE is a highly flexible studio system that can be configured, adapted, and used according to specific needs such as recording, mixing, and mastering. It is a flexible powerful digital mixer with latency-free real-time DSP plug-ins and other quality features. It includes SHARC DSP boards, software packages, recording tools such as mixers and effects, and exclusive sound machines such as synthesizers and samplers. SCOPE is fully expandable. DSP power, I/Os, and software can all be updated thanks to its modular structure. One can implement configurations comprising as many as 42 SHARC DSPs and more than 100 I/Os. "The considerable DSP power of the platform itself allows for implementing only sophisticated top-notch algorithms — we have always focused on quality. For example, the synthesizers on our platform rarely provide extensive polyphony but the sound just blows right into your face. There is, however, one more technological motive: The employed SHARC DSP was specifically designed to perform high-resolution audio processing. It always processes the audio with a 32-bit resolution, and algorithms and parameters are computed with a floating-point resolution of even 40 bits," said Hund. "If there are no such powerful structures at hand, programmers will have to make compromises regarding the resolution (accuracy) again and again for performance purposes; so the weakest link in the processing chain will often determine the sound. With SHARCs, however, you never have to compromise — the highest resolution is maintained during the entire process without affecting the performance," Hund said. "You can hear it in the results." would love to know what ADSP the HD500X is using. sorry just add : this should be good news on the longevity of the product so money well invested in the hd500 and probs even more so in the HD500X

sorry I deleted my question, started new thread.

I have 1 electric guitar, an Ibanez S470, 1 acoustic\electric guitar, the Ibanez Talman TCM50-NT and 1 acoustic guitar, the Jasmine S34C, I just learning for fun, I don't think I will ever be any/very good lol although still enjoy playing around, I have a bunch of friends who play guitars, bass, drums and flute, they have been playing for around 20-30 years some of them, for fun not to make money or profession, I think only one who prob's knows how to read music is probs fred, he's is good. im not wanting to play in a band just more interested in effects and playing around really, I dout I will quit, I enjoy playing around to much and this POD HD500 inspires me even more. this is fred play Fleetwood mac, posted by jon Norris https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGbZFwb1avU

being a total noob and just starting out to learn the guitar, let alone the HD500 and all its options, effects, amps, cabs + mic setups, sussing out how to connect it up through an old peavey VT 112 effects loop has been fun learning, with so many settings etc to play around with, it can make my head spin heeh, although that's because I don't understand how to use the effects correctly, being new to all of this I kind of feel I jumped in the deep end, because of being just a total beginner. although for me, what a place to start :D i'm loving it and still in awe of this unit, so much to learn and loving every second of it ..

looking forward to the new firmware update for my HD500, bought my HD500 second hand about 8 days ago and have not had much sleep since, was up until 5 am this morning playing round with the settings etc, I love this thing and learning to tweak it and make your own sounds its awsome, still loads to learn and understand about this unit and for the £260 I paid for it (it was boxed and in mint condition) I could not be happier. new line 6 fan I guess.

when I flashed my hd500 to the latest firmware 2.32 after it had finished and told me to unplug power cable. I re-powered up without the reset and it was fine, although I decided to I unplugged it again and done the global Rest and recalibrated my pedal, but I would advise once you pull the power lead do the global reset then, just in case.