jaybee77

1pm uk...

i aint no master .. im learning here... and im all ears to your thoughts and learning from other people explorations... each has their own method and own understanding of unity and how to set up signal levels to get best quality of signal throughout from guitar to what comes out of the speaker. its whatever works for you as each persons set up and needs is different.. enjoy im all ears to hear how you all set up your equipment? thats just how i have mine set up and it works beautifully for me... why is everyone asking for a meter.. is it to maintain a good signal level throughout that doesnt push too high into clipping or drop volume too low so as to unnecessary lose signal level or introduce unnecessary noise by raising the signal too high at certain points in the chain?

All Sounds good. Love the matchstick amp I Use the helix volume at 100% for unity gain and turn down the speakers volume. Use the channel volume in the amp setting or the output block volume to keep the signal level at unity gain. Actually I measure the signal throughout each block I add. First i measure guitar signal through helix with no blocks on at all, main volume dial at 100% and the guitar vol and tone at max using the middle pick up setting. Then I note the level. As I add each block I adjust the level of the block to match the level I noted from just playing the guitar through the helix. Keep the signal to that level through all the blocks all the way to the output. Having the volume dial at 100% is unity gain and best low signal noise. With regards to distortion drive pedals before the amp block I measure and adjust the output of the signal at the amp block rather than keeping those pedals at unity before the amp block. This is because you want drive pedals to push the front of the amp... so not always looking to achieve unity gain in front of an amp model but be careful not to push drive the front of amps into digital clipping. This method keeps the signal noise down low and maintains unity gain and sounds pure and great and gives a good sense of where you are at whilst creating and tweaking a patch. Note: if you creating a patch where it's a clean tone and guitar volume kept around 3-5 for most of the playing then I measure my reference level with the guitar at 5 with no blocks turned on.. and then as I create that patch keep all the blocks at the unity gain from the guitar referenced at 3-5. Otherwise I always use the guitar maxed out to set up and measure the unity gain... then once all set up I can roll off the guitar volume to taste. If I have set up a patch using guitar vol maxed to create unity gain and then find I have a long passage with the guitar vol lowered i sometimes put a clean boost block at the end of the chain and turn it on when I lower the guitar vol to raise that passage to unity gain at the lower guitar vol setting.. . Then when I step the guitar vol back up I switch the boost off. I like your idea of having expression pedal set up at end of chain For a boost. There is always room to push just above unity gain or to raise the levels when guitar vol lowered. For all of this you need a stereo level meter attached to helix. I use my zoom h4n in volume metering mode attached to 2 sends placed at the end of the signal chain right b4 the output block. I wish line 6 could incorporate a level meter into the helix so that I don't have to use up 2 sends for metering purposes. It is desperately needed and on idea scale it has 1076 votes ... and yet it still hasn't appeared... is this not possible or will it appear in the future? I hope so Enjoy

Excellent news

P.s. I gave the wrong link... the dual is for a stereo set up like I used... http://www.orchid-electronics.co.uk/trans.htm Tho I no longer use that set up as too big to move around 2 stereo 2x12 guitar combos and a helix. I now use a Yamaha thr100hd which has dual amp set up and a stereo power amp and stereo send return into the 2x12 thrc mismatched speaker cab and no ground issues with the helix as the two signals are all within the same electrical path. Small portable set up... sounds incredible with the mismatched speakers and options to choose the power amp tube and class of operation for each side of the power amp.

Maybe You need to isolate one of the preamps completely which requires 2 iso boxes. E.g. signal flow ... helix send. Iso.. Preamp1. Iso.. Helix return. Not sure exactly for your set up but u will need more than one isolation box. The best solution i know is made by John at orchid electronics uk and sold at a non brand name price... they are the highest quality and audio quality and cheaper than band name solutions. Email him tell him your exact set up, what u need to be able to achieve and he will tell what you need. He can custom make units for your needs. Soundonsound website have two glowing reviews of his products... and I can confirm they are outstanding solutions.. http://www.orchid-electronics.co.uk/dual_isolator.htm

Can you confirm your having a problem of the control freezing due to a mission pedal being attached and disconnecting is the only way to solve it? Do you use any other expression pedals.. If so Are they also connected at the same time of the control freezing up? Interested to clarify if this bug is with mission pedals as well as other brand pedals or just with incompatible other brand pedals?

That's interesting that the same problem occurs with mission expression pedals... I thought it was because of the boss fv pedal being incompatible with helix but to hear the mission pedal also causes the error means line 6 will be wanting to figure what's going wrong with the control and expression pedals. Shouldn't be paying £150 for a mission pedal and 350 for control and them causing a freeze of control... that's £500 which is Half the full price of the helix floor unit which has an expression pedal in built!!! As a rack user I feel I pay more for less ... there it is! there really is an issue all round with expression pedals for helix rack and control... either need a control with built in foot pedals or ability to plug in pedals without this whole fiasco of rewiring cables and volumes jumping about and control freezing up. You expect better for the money invested. Otherwise a brilliant product. Hope long term line 6 have a solution to these expression pedal woes... be it a firmware or hardware solution!

Thanks Peter - thats great info to know - will get on to modifying a cable and give it a go. many thanks for your help today much appreciated... loving this helix - such great sounds and just starting to get a real grip on how to fully use it...

It would seem so - unplugging the cable from the back of the FV and plugging back in again has solved the problem. but it leaves the worry of when it will do it again - if it was mid song it would be a nightmare! So its a question of how to connect the boss FV500L which uses a TRS socket, to the control exp input which is TS What is the specific cable i need. is the Y cable im using the same as what people are making at home for the pedals to work? or does the ring need de-soldering - but would that just make it a TS cable - a TS cable doesnt work with the FV500 and the helix

Thanks for the PM. ...... had already done the full firmware update as per the step by step instructions and updated the control when prompted and did the rebuild. I have two pedals plugged into the back of the control. Exp 1 + toe switch = Mission SP1-L6H Exp 2 = Boss FV 500L - as volume pedal. using a neutrik rean Y cable - with a mono cable going from the tip mono (black) plug of the y cable into the Exp 2. this works fairly well although occasionally the volume moves about - so this in itself is something i need to figure out a better solution for? i tried unplugging the cat 5 cable from the control... didnt change the situation. ...... I use a Boss FV-500L foot pedal attached to the back of control Exp 2 socket. unplugging and re plugging the cable from the back of the FV solved the problem... what would be the cause of the problem here - clearly the pedal being TRS and the helix using TS ? What is the best way to connect a TRS foot volume pedal like the Boss FV to the helix? .... This pedal situation been causing headaches through out. the mission pedal has too short a movement to be a good volume pedal. but then the boss fv pedal, although it has nice range of movement in build, when used with the helix you have to depress someway before you pass 0% and it reaches 100% a fair way before the end of travel. wish there was a way for these pedals to work with helix, for there to be a workable cabling method and for helix to sense the full range of the pedals. .... wish for line 6 to release a version with two pedals built in, with toe switches - so then we could get away from trying to get pedals to work with it or paying £100 - £150 for a mission pedal..... given that two pedals would cost £200 - £300 on top of the cost of the control... line 6 could offer a two pedal version and charge more for it as we got to pay more to have expression pedals that work with it anyway. And yes i know it wouldn't fit in a rack draw unit - but the wight of a rack mount and the rack and the pedal and the draw is overkill to move around... would rather have a two pedal version in a soft carry case... I will try your tip of connecting the pedal to the rack rather than to the control as it may be more stable thanks

Thanks for the PM. ...... had already done the full firmware update as per the step by step instructions and updated the control when prompted and did the rebuild. I have two pedals plugged into the back of the control. Exp 1 + toe switch = Mission SP1-L6H Exp 2 = Boss FV 500L - as volume pedal. using a neutrik rean Y cable - with a mono cable going from the tip mono (black) plug of the y cable into the Exp 2. this works fairly well although occasionally the volume moves about - so this in itself is something i need to figure out a better solution for? i tried unplugging the cat 5 cable from the control... didnt change the situation. ...... I use a Boss FV-500L foot pedal attached to the back of control Exp 2 socket. unplugging and re plugging the cable from the back of the FV solved the problem... what would be the cause of the problem here - clearly the pedal being TRS and the helix using TS ? What is the best way to connect a TRS foot volume pedal like the Boss FV to the helix? .... This pedal situation been causing headaches through out. the mission pedal has too short a movement to be a good volume pedal. but then the boss fv pedal, although it has nice range of movement in build, when used with the helix you have to depress someway before you pass 0% and it reaches 100% a fair way before the end of travel. wish there was a way for these pedals to work with helix, for there to be a workable cabling method and for helix to sense the full range of the pedals. .... wish for line 6 to release a version with two pedals built in, with toe switches - so then we could get away from trying to get pedals to work with it or paying £100 - £150 for a mission pedal..... given that two pedals would cost £200 - £300 on top of the cost of the control... line 6 could offer a two pedal version and charge more for it as we got to pay more to have expression pedals that work with it anyway. And yes i know it wouldn't fit in a rack draw unit - but the wight of a rack mount and the rack and the pedal and the draw is overkill to move around... would rather have a two pedal version in a soft carry case... I will try your tip of connecting the pedal to the rack rather than to the control as it may be more stable thanks

I have the Helix Rack and Control. using FW 2.21 - updated when released and the update procedure correctly followed and rebuild done. All has been good until last night. I pressed on the control to change up to the next bank and nothing happened. then the control froze none of the switches worked. Waited awhile and it unfroze. tried changing a preset which it allowed but the next press on footswitch to change to another preset and it froze again - none of the foot switches responsive! tried reconnecting the cable at both ends, tried a new cable too - no change you can press one switch and then the next press on another switch and it frozen again. Whilst frozen - If i make changes via the rack eg change preset - the control not echoing the changes made. After various testing via powering down and back up - this problem is for all of the settings via control be it changing snapshots, bank, presets, stomp mode etc... and any setting change on the rack not shown on the control. I went into global settings - footswitches page. I noticed if i made a change to any of the settings on the footswitch page the control worked perfectly - but as soon as i leave the global footswitch page and return to the main home screen - the control freezes up again. so that leads me to believe it might be a bug rather than hardware problem. Have tried another cat 5 cable - problem still persists. My next line of thought - Is there a reset method for the rack and control? see if that fixes it. if that doesnt fix it then my questions are: is the problem Hardware or firmware. If firmware bug - what do i do. do i need to wait for this bug to be fixed in the firmware release, eg 2.3, post native release could still be sometime away? If it is hardware error - is it the control or the rack where the problem resides? Very frustrating - been building up patches and ready to go record next week for three weeks... bam it not working properly... suddenly realize how dependent you become on this device - it is the central hub of all the work. here's hoping a reset can fix it. anyone experienced this issue? anyone any thoughts? any one at line 6 any advice how to proceed with this?

I have the Helix Rack and Control. using FW 2.21 - updated when released and the update procedure correctly followed and rebuild done. All has been good until last night. I pressed on the control to change up to the next bank and nothing happened. then the control froze none of the switches worked. Waited awhile and it unfroze. tried changing a preset which it allowed but the next press on footswitch to change to another preset and it froze again - none of the foot switches responsive! tried reconnecting the cable at both ends, tried a new cable too - no change you can press one switch and then the next press on another switch and it frozen again. Whilst frozen - If i make changes via the rack eg change preset - the control not echoing the changes made. After various testing via powering down and back up - this problem is for all of the settings via control be it changing snapshots, bank, presets, stomp mode etc... and any setting change on the rack not shown on the control. I went into global settings - footswitches page. I noticed if i made a change to any of the settings on the footswitch page the control worked perfectly - but as soon as i leave the global footswitch page and return to the main home screen - the control freezes up again. so that leads me to believe it might be a bug rather than hardware problem. Have tried another cable - problem still persists. My next line of thought - Is there a reset method for the rack and control? see if that fixes it. if that doesnt fix it then my questions are: is the problem Hardware or firmware. If firmware bug - what do i do. do i need to wait for this bug to be fixed in the firmware release, eg 2.3, post native release could still be sometime away? If it is hardware error - is it the control or the rack where the problem resides? Very frustrating - been building up patches and ready to go record next week for three weeks... bam it not working properly... suddenly realize how dependent you become on this device - it is the central hub of all the work. here's hoping a reset can fix it. anyone experienced this issue? anyone any thoughts? any one at line 6 any advice how to proceed with this?

Quite a few nice things the GT100 does that the Helix doesnt offer - But the Helix does so much that is great, to a very high quality - but i still aim to use the G100 alongside the Helix, the GT100 compliments the Helix set up nicely. The GT100 amp modelling is awful, but the effects are excellent and the level of editing of the effects and assigning parameters such as the wave pedal and virtual pedal are really useful for using with the helix. Im not one for being all out on one device or that i expect to do it all. If the GT100 has things that the helix doesnt bring to the show then im gonna happily use the GT100 to compliment what the Helix does do. Some of the Delays, Reverbs on the GT are really good. The draw back of the GT100 is the mono send return - but given that im just using it for F/X and that the Helix amp modelling is in mono, it means routing the helix amps into the GT100 using the mono send return and then using the stereo out from the GT100 into the stereo F/X loop on the helix should work brilliantly and in line with being in mono through the signal before and upto the amp model in Helix and then in stereo after the amp of Helix. Plus there is also the option to use the guitar input on the GT100 as part of the send return set up if you really need a stereo send return or using separate path set ups. Send 1 from helix using instrument level into the guitar in of the GT100 and the GT input level setting to achieve unity gain. Send 2 from helix using Line level into the return of the GT100. Then output from the GT100 in stereo back into the helix returns. and link them up via midi to achieve seamless patch switching and parameter control. The GT has stereo paths/channels A and B in the amp block - just turn off the amps, place the amp block directly after the guitar input and place the return in the 2nd path of the amp block and use the mix setting of the return to not recieve the signal from the guitar in before it and you have 2 paths from the helix and in the GT100 and then they run in stereo through the GT100 F/X after the GT100 amp paths/channels block. Also has nice divider and mixer settings... The spread function in the mixer which slightly delays the sound of channel B against channel A is really good for creating a spacious or boxy cabinet sound... Sure it would be nice to have one unit that does it all and im tempted to go through what the GT does bring to the table that the helix doesnt in a separate post and see if helix can bring some of those options into the Helix. But i dont what to upset the Helix team... the helix is top notch.. what it does blows the GT100 away, and what it doesnt offer i can live with because i have the GT and the helix and together im sure i will have it all... But i understand your post ... no harm asking if they can provide pick up modelling enjoy

Very nice sound. Just a quick listen suggests its two guitar parts - one very clean guitar part, underneath is one very wet reverb guitar with the dry signal almost completely removed. im imagining two paths. path 1 - clean guitar though a compressor and clean amp setting - thru to output and that path 1 clean guitar also routed down to path 2 - volume pedal - stereo chorus - reverb - thru to output you would need to be deft with the foot volume pedal to only allow the notes you want to be heard to come through the reverb and then cut the sound of the other played notes by using the foot volume pedal... easy when you know how but hard to explain on a forum sorry... so imagine playing three notes or chords one after another... Dah.. Da.. Da.. foot volume pressed down to allow - Dah.. to come through the reverb... then foot volume rolled back / used to silence notes for Da.. Da.. stopping those notes/chords from going through the reverb whilst the first note is still being heard cascading away in the reverb in the background you can use a foot volume pedal to remove the initial attack of a note... eg have foot volume at zero, pick a note, immediately after picking it use the foot volume to bend the note in for just long enough for the reverb to get that note into its cascade and then immediately back off the volume pedal again down to zero and let the reverb cascade and ring out the captured note. all the while the notes you are playing are still heard uninterrupted on path 1 using the clean guitar hope this makes sense... hard to describe on a forum... your looking to set the time or feedback of the reverb to very long and the mix to almost totally wet if not completely wet... .... there will be other ways of achieving this sound and the recording itself is probably taking advantage of studio techniques to layer it, process each part and separate out the dry and wet using eq and compression and panning - i would have thought to make each part sound high quality and spacious and yet sitting nicely together... very nice effect. would sound best ultimately in a wet dry wet set up - FRFR speakers on left and right carrying the reverb sound and with a touch of the clean guitar sound - whilst a proper guitar cab sits in between the two FRFR speakers and carries the Clean guitar sound with just a touch of the reverb coming through. sorry i could tell you how to achieve this with my old Boss gt-100 - not so sure of top of my head which chorus and reverb in the helix would be best suited... In the gt100 the stereo chorus model had the chorus signal on the left of the signal and a dry signal coming through on the right - then fed into a lush long reverb... If i find time i will have a look into it...

Thanks. I have just got home and set it all up. With the 10m input impedance, any either one should work... - Did you mean 1 M ohm? It is a 1 M ohm input impedance ! Tried both Instrument and Line. Line seems to have more noise/hiss than instrument - But im guessing that's due to instrument signal being lower in level so the Line seems to amplify more noise? Yes i can set unity gain via the input 'Variable' level knob... Will try the send return method... but then have to add an F/X block to every patch that i have made and the factory presets where as using the main 1/4" outs is straight forward - no editing of patches required...

Hello. Im loving the Helix and wanting to link up my Boss RC-300 looper to the helix. Im going from the Helix 1/4" outs - into the L/R inputs on the RC300 - and then out to the stereo return on my Yamaha THR100HD What should i set the Helix 1/4" outputs to - Instrument or Line ? Info in the RC-300 manual is as follows.... INPUT Nominal Input Level INPUT INST: -10 dBu (variable) Input Impedance INPUT INST: 1 M ohm OUTPUT Nominal Output Level MAIN OUTPUT: -10 dBu Output Impedance 2 k ohms Recommended Load Impedance 10 k ohms or greater.... I could also use a Helix F/X loop to connect to the RC300... thanks for your help