themetallikid

I'm not that young, 43, probably just less experienced in true 'studio' magic and tricks of the trade. That thought did cross my mind that it would just be the general sort of tape hiss/white noise sorta sound. I didnt really spend a tone of time with it, just something I noticed while dialing in a quick preset waiting for my daughter to get ready for school.

I played with this briefly this morning. I created a new preset to jam on some Night Ranger, and through a TS808 in front of the 2204 Mod with dual 25/v30 cab, and the Retro Reel....had to add the Horizon Gate to tame hiss like crazy. Does the Retro Reel seem hissy or noisy?

This is how I run mine when I do solo shows. Guitar In - Guitar Mic In - Mic (duh, right?) Left XLR Out to my powered wedge (monitor) Direct out of Monitor to the FOH Powered Speaker. This way I hear what the audience hears and can monitor my mix appropriately. In the preset, I run separate paths for vocals/guitar.....but I have a volume block at the beginning of each chain....attached to the same EXP 1. That way when I'm done performing, I roll that back, everything is muted. Next set, roll up to 100% ready to go. My balance between vocals and guitar is set in the output block level at the end of the chains.

I just got the chance to try out my acoustic preset/snapshots this weekend and they were better than I was expecting but the down sides were where I expected as well. I designed via headphones, then quality controlled via my powered wedge (all through my mixer to take its color into consideration as well)..... 1) I used a combination of 2 IR's. 3Sigma Martin 45 2b position and Also the 3c. I split the signal before, and then as they are the last blocks in my signal flow they each run out to the outputs. 2) I run the Red Compressor > Acoustic Sim > 10 Band EQ > Dimension Chorus > IR's as my signal path essentially. The Red Compressor is still a trial thing, It helps hear the attack a bit more (like a thin pick on an acoustic) but it needs work as its a bit too much right now. I found that the EQ really helps adjust some areas that the Acoustic sim block doesnt touch EQ wise. I had the Acoustic block providing some low end and bite/presence, but it sounded better to turn those up a bit more than I would on its own, and then dial down some of the frequencies in the EQ. It really benefited (to my ears/preset) boosting the 500hz band about 3-5db. I also boosted the 125hz, while bringing down the 60/250hz bands. Again the only thing I really heard 'wrong' with my preset (for my needs) was to bring down the highs/presence a bit

For the line of sight, my gigs would make it hard, I like to wander the crowd/bars during solos and other things, and being on the other side of a monitor wedge and 10-50 people dancing sure might make it not functional for me.

You need some sort of power/amplification to power the speaker.

It would be cool if you could connect Helix's and a menu would detect the other Helix and pop up a menu to 'backup to Helix' or something similar. Probably not programming feasible, but would apply in this situation.

I use the Stomp mode layout and customize the screen. Like DunedinDragon, I also create song specific presets and then use snapshots for each piece of the song (rhythm, lead, bridge, intro etc.) that requires a different sound. In my Stomp Layout (using the Command Center) I have buttons 1&2 as my HXPreset Prev/Next. My actual snapshot buttons always work left>right, but I start from the right. So if the song only has one snapshot "Rhythm" (snapshot 1), it goes on the button right next to Tap Tempo. If there are 2 snapshots "Rhythm" & "Lead".....Lead will be next to Tap Tempo and Rhythm will be the button to the left. That way my 'workspace' is always left to right, my lead is always closest to my wah. On rare occasions I need all 5 bottom row buttons for snaps, but I still have the 3 remaining top row buttons for any Stomp buttons for effects. If I need to have a momentary Lead button, that always goes on the bottom left area, cause its easiest for me to step and play then let off.

So Im sending stereo L/R outs from Helix into two separate channels on my mixer. I'm noticing in the metering and channel lights that the Right channel is about 3db louder on the input trim meters. In my headphones it doesnt sound that way, and gauging from the 3.0db boosts I use on some lead presets Id think I'd hear that. I've checked my path 2A>2B split and there is nothing here that indicates why. I have the 2A and 2B outputs hard L/R 100% the last block(s) after my stereo split of the path are just IR blocks. One is set to more of a 57 biting type sound and the other is more of a 121/160 type mic. Am I safe to assume its a bit of the Fletcher effect being the bassier is the 'right' channel that the input is more sensitive to lower frequencies then?

At the risk of sounding like a lot of the 'this preset doesnt sound like the video online' sorta thing..... ...I bought some acoustic IR's from 3Sigma. A Guild and Martin that sounded the best for what I'd be using. There are 2 folders Electric and Acoustic, and within the electric there are options and in the Acoustic there are Pieze/Soundhole and a 3rd option. I know these go in an IR Block (duh!) but where in the chain would they go. This is to project and acoustic like sound during full band shows for those few songs/parts that I need something close, so I'm playing an electric into the helix. Just playing around I threw on the Acoustic Sim block (stock settings) and then imported some of the IR's to dip my toes in on my lunch hour. I had 2 IR's at the end of my chain just like my electric presets and was going towards a bassier/thicker sound in one IR and a brighter/more attack type in the other. Is it more popular to run the IR's first? I'd think you'd let the Acoustic Sim do its thing, and then 'EQ' (IR) the sound from there post effects.

I wish it had an XLR input. I'd love something Helix brand that I could use for acoustic gigs (maybe i'm missing a product in my head) that would replace my Play Acoustic. My full Helix sits on my pedalboard which isnt built for quick n go acoustic gigs... Could get creative with an adapter and the Input in combination with the Aux In maybe...but would prefer a dedicated input stream.

Theres no point in using the 'stereo effect 1' in your chain as it would just collapse to mono at the amp anyway. Save the DSP and use the mono version

Is the Exp Pedal considered a 'footswitch' and not a 'controller'? Only asking, I'm going off memory, but I have my fave wah and I'm pretty sure it assigns pops up with the bypass (auto engage settings) as Exp 2. I know the sweep of the wah auto assigns when you add a block, but the bypass part doesnt....I'd have to check after work. And I know that the button assigns do for sure as I have the Looper saved as button 7 for 'drop in' help when editing a preset.

If I'm not mistaken, and I very well might be.....I think if you save a block as a 'favorite' it saves the controller assigns? No?

I'm a fan of the York Audio IR's.

yeah this is my first delving into splitting my signal to send seperate L/R to the board. So i'm wondering if the Stereo Gain Block is the culprit because the outputs are panned and its only sending out 'half' of that signal. I dont need to post the preset, the preset it self is fine and functions as I want. Its merely the boosting of the 'lead version' of my rhythm sound. Which is only comparing the Gain block vs preset output being the pieces in motion. My preset has no effect on what is happening because its across 6 of my presets. If you want to test it, its pretty simple to recreate. I'll troubleshoot when I go home on lunch and see if the 'stereo' block is whats causing that difference.

I get what your saying, but i'm not arguing the compressed vs dynamic aspect of tones, i understand that stuff. I'm merely asking why do I get a different output level (input level at my mixer) when i do the 7.5db boost in the gain blocks vs 7.5db boost on the preset output level.

Its not a meaningless use of a gain block....I need to have a block on path 2b in order for me to have the separate outputs L/R. There isnt a way to bring the signal path down to get a 2nd output unless you have a block there. The Gain block is one of the least DSP intensive, so it wins. I thought as long as I have to have that block down there to split the path....why not use it as well for my Lead boosts. I get that 7.5db is 7.5db no matter where it is coming from....but if I had the ability to screen shot the different in using +7.5db in the gain blocks on each path vs +7.5db on the output level for the preset,....there is a difference. Unless the use of stereo vs. mono blocks is doing something here because the outputs are panned 100% L/R that I'm only getting half the boost i'm seeing in the Gain block setting which would make sense then that the +7.5db in the gain block is equivalent (at my mixers input) of +3.2db on the preset output level.

No/Maybe - not sure how it would matter. The end of my chain goes Stereo Delay (just to have a stereo block to separate signal L/R) > Split (Paths are 100 seperated here) > Gain Block (can't recall if its a stereo or mono Gain block here off hand) > separate outs (both set to 0.0db). Would a stereo vs mono gain block make a difference in the output? Not really, the easiest way I can try and describe this is this way maybe: -Presets (rhythm/base) are designed around output level of 0.0db -Rhythm presets 'average' around -10db on my mixers input meter (just the number we like for headroom etc) -Lead boosts (because we dont have a sound guy) I try to have them spike around -5db on the input meter, but 'average' between -10 and -5db. What I have been doing is using Gain Blocks at the end of each L/R out on path 2 to boost my output going to the board. The 'boost' needed based on the type of sound (clean being more dynamic/less compressed needs less boost than my heavy modern sound) ranges from -1.5db (clean sound) to +7.5db (modern heavy sound). Now, given that last paragraph, I decided to eliminate the Gain Blocks (still need one on path 2b to keep the additional path to output, though it is bypassed, merely a placeholder) and make the adjustments on the preset's output level instead. When I matched the gain blocks output setting to the presets output setting, it was greatly different results. My clean didnt actually need a cut or boost (just the additional OD I added was enough to give it a boost), my low-medium gain sounds all needed about 2-2.5db boost and my heavier sounds needed a 3.0 maybe 3.2db boost. Why is there such a different between the methods? When I put the +7.5db boost on the preset output level, it drove my mixers input meter to around +3db vs. the -7.5db level I was getting using the gain block approach. Do the Gain blocks do something different that I'm not noticing? Also seemed to introduce some additional noise to my sound when using the gain block strategy. I get do what 'sounds' right, more just trying to increase my understanding of what is happening.

as a case in point, I just went back through my lead sounds and to hit the same 'mark' on the input meter of my mixer I never topped +2.7db on the output level of the preset, but the gain blocks I had to hit the same levels were at +7.5db.

How do these differ when trying to boost leads. I'm redoing my presets and trying to boost leads and I have everything from -1.5db (cleanest preset lead) to +7.5db (heaviest, most compressed signal) in the gain blocks at the end of my chain. However, I'm using my Xair18's input meter to help guage lead boosts to make sure they arent over the top meter wise as we dont get together for practice much for me to judge this in a live band context (meters get me close enough for finer adjustments post gig)....and the difference in the what the Xair is getting at a comparative +7.0db from Gain Block vs Output level is quite drastic. Is there a reason why? (Yes I get the use your ears and all is fine argument) I dont see why they'd be different, they are next to each other in the chain (gain blocks are right before output and both are 'db' adjustments

all well said, and I agree....Not said the said 'unfamiliar sound guy sucks' doesnt have a solution that night in someway. But it can be a shock if you arent aware of that potential issue. First couple times it happened, it took me a bit to understand what was happening. Once we had a consistent sound guy of our own it was much easier to transfer my 'home' work to the stage.

This is more or less what I do. I created my previous set so that the outputs were all -4db. Then would go up to 0.0db at most for my lead boosts. The issue i've run into with lead boosts (across multiple platforms) is this. Helix Approach (for sures here): Presets set to -4db at output Leads at 0.0db Our PA Rig (hypothetical numbers roughly for sake of showing the effect): Input Trim +7.5db Channel fader set to: -5db (similarly matches other instruments, so nothing weird here) Cause/Effect: My lead boosts and rhythm sounds are well matched to the volume of the rest of the band. The +4db lead sound boost I'm providing is doing well in the mix, remember, the additional 4db is then getting boosted by 7.5db at the board input. Unfamiliar Sound guy PA (it would be great if I could tell PA guys to set my input trim to 7.5db like we have ours, but thats probably a no-no, lol) Input Trim (2 scenarios, +15db and +3db) set differently as boards/sound guys vary in approaches Channel Fader (respectively -10db and 0.0db, one sets it at the input trim the other likes things at 0.0 and uses the input trim to get things balanced (yes, wrong, but it happens) Cause/Effect: In the +15db scenario...my original +4db boost is now being essentially doubled at the board, thus causing my lead sounds to be much louder of a jump in the mix between my rhythm/lead tones. Conversely, the +3db is minimizing the lead boost effect in a similar fashion, its taking the +4db boost and not boosting it as much as the original 7.5db boost that we use. I have not found a way to combat this well, other than to have 'our' group of presets with the +4db presets and another with 'flat' lead sounds where there is no boost provided by the Helix and thus trusting the sound guy will do his part and ride the faders as he should be. Helix provides enough setlists for me to do that, however, you know...so little time, lol

Yeah I get that...I sorta figured its not a win/win type question I'm asking, lol. And as much as the Helix can handle, I hate having complicated core tones as it just becomes a nightmare to program song specific presets then and get all the pieces of THAT tone into the preset along with other sound components. Would only adding a pitch to one side of the outputs and only going up OR down a few cents be enough to thicken it? I monitor at home using headphones so I'm getting the effect much stronger than it would be live I'm thinking. I get what your saying about 'real air' not causing the phasing as opposed to isolated cans really....But I dont really use a cab on stage. We run direct and I only monitor through my front monitor. Thinking maybe if I send seperate outputs and only pitch shift a few cents (enough to get some thicknes) but then pan each channel at the board maybe 70/30 etc....idk, too much thinking, lol.... Yeah my 'monster' rig had a stereo setup between a 4x12 and 2*2x12's vertically on its side. Sorta a wet dry wet, but didnt really use in the w/d/w config. it sounded great where I was standing. Eventually I wanted my other guitar player to get a 2nd cab and we were gonna do what you did, not stereo, just to have sound equalized on stage that way. And it looked cool, lol

I recently just started using the Xair18 to do this sorta as well. We use this for live use and I wanted to use the input level metering and the RTA EQ analyzer to see what I was tweaking (yes...use my ears, but without my other guitar player its hard to know what will work and I know how his guitar sits with frequencies usually). I setup my presets in the past to be -4db on the output to give myself some headroom. Upon the approach of using the Xair, I had to then boost my Xair input on my channels to +10db. I like to control my lead boosts and how the boards trim is set can impact the boost you use for leads. So I set my output levels on Helix to 0.0db. On the Xair, we (the band) try to keep input signals at -10 to allow some headroom and such (similar to you). I find that at 0.0db and the xair channel trims at +5.5db it gets me to that -10db. on the input meter. HOWEVER, We have a few shows where I know we will have other sound guys and once I have them mostly leveled I will go into my clean sound (most dynamic) and reset the Xair input trim to 0.0db and then adjust the Amp Ch. Volume to get back to the -10db we like everything channel wise at on the Xair. Tedious and repetitive I know, but I have a very consistent sound...my other guitar player...not so much, lol. I did notice that by raising to 0.0db on the Helix outputs that my ch volumes on the amp blocks dropped down to the 3.5-6.5 range whereas before they were all up near the 7.5-9.5 range. So once I get that recalibrated again, it should be back to around 7.0 consistently it seems. I babbled, work got in the way of logical thoughts, lol