themetallikid

all well said, and I agree....Not said the said 'unfamiliar sound guy sucks' doesnt have a solution that night in someway. But it can be a shock if you arent aware of that potential issue. First couple times it happened, it took me a bit to understand what was happening. Once we had a consistent sound guy of our own it was much easier to transfer my 'home' work to the stage.

This is more or less what I do. I created my previous set so that the outputs were all -4db. Then would go up to 0.0db at most for my lead boosts. The issue i've run into with lead boosts (across multiple platforms) is this. Helix Approach (for sures here): Presets set to -4db at output Leads at 0.0db Our PA Rig (hypothetical numbers roughly for sake of showing the effect): Input Trim +7.5db Channel fader set to: -5db (similarly matches other instruments, so nothing weird here) Cause/Effect: My lead boosts and rhythm sounds are well matched to the volume of the rest of the band. The +4db lead sound boost I'm providing is doing well in the mix, remember, the additional 4db is then getting boosted by 7.5db at the board input. Unfamiliar Sound guy PA (it would be great if I could tell PA guys to set my input trim to 7.5db like we have ours, but thats probably a no-no, lol) Input Trim (2 scenarios, +15db and +3db) set differently as boards/sound guys vary in approaches Channel Fader (respectively -10db and 0.0db, one sets it at the input trim the other likes things at 0.0 and uses the input trim to get things balanced (yes, wrong, but it happens) Cause/Effect: In the +15db scenario...my original +4db boost is now being essentially doubled at the board, thus causing my lead sounds to be much louder of a jump in the mix between my rhythm/lead tones. Conversely, the +3db is minimizing the lead boost effect in a similar fashion, its taking the +4db boost and not boosting it as much as the original 7.5db boost that we use. I have not found a way to combat this well, other than to have 'our' group of presets with the +4db presets and another with 'flat' lead sounds where there is no boost provided by the Helix and thus trusting the sound guy will do his part and ride the faders as he should be. Helix provides enough setlists for me to do that, however, you know...so little time, lol

Yeah I get that...I sorta figured its not a win/win type question I'm asking, lol. And as much as the Helix can handle, I hate having complicated core tones as it just becomes a nightmare to program song specific presets then and get all the pieces of THAT tone into the preset along with other sound components. Would only adding a pitch to one side of the outputs and only going up OR down a few cents be enough to thicken it? I monitor at home using headphones so I'm getting the effect much stronger than it would be live I'm thinking. I get what your saying about 'real air' not causing the phasing as opposed to isolated cans really....But I dont really use a cab on stage. We run direct and I only monitor through my front monitor. Thinking maybe if I send seperate outputs and only pitch shift a few cents (enough to get some thicknes) but then pan each channel at the board maybe 70/30 etc....idk, too much thinking, lol.... Yeah my 'monster' rig had a stereo setup between a 4x12 and 2*2x12's vertically on its side. Sorta a wet dry wet, but didnt really use in the w/d/w config. it sounded great where I was standing. Eventually I wanted my other guitar player to get a 2nd cab and we were gonna do what you did, not stereo, just to have sound equalized on stage that way. And it looked cool, lol

I recently just started using the Xair18 to do this sorta as well. We use this for live use and I wanted to use the input level metering and the RTA EQ analyzer to see what I was tweaking (yes...use my ears, but without my other guitar player its hard to know what will work and I know how his guitar sits with frequencies usually). I setup my presets in the past to be -4db on the output to give myself some headroom. Upon the approach of using the Xair, I had to then boost my Xair input on my channels to +10db. I like to control my lead boosts and how the boards trim is set can impact the boost you use for leads. So I set my output levels on Helix to 0.0db. On the Xair, we (the band) try to keep input signals at -10 to allow some headroom and such (similar to you). I find that at 0.0db and the xair channel trims at +5.5db it gets me to that -10db. on the input meter. HOWEVER, We have a few shows where I know we will have other sound guys and once I have them mostly leveled I will go into my clean sound (most dynamic) and reset the Xair input trim to 0.0db and then adjust the Amp Ch. Volume to get back to the -10db we like everything channel wise at on the Xair. Tedious and repetitive I know, but I have a very consistent sound...my other guitar player...not so much, lol. I did notice that by raising to 0.0db on the Helix outputs that my ch volumes on the amp blocks dropped down to the 3.5-6.5 range whereas before they were all up near the 7.5-9.5 range. So once I get that recalibrated again, it should be back to around 7.0 consistently it seems. I babbled, work got in the way of logical thoughts, lol

Ok, 1) I know running stereo live is useless.....lol 2) I'm not trying to really create a 'true' stereo path or sound. However after watching Jason Sadites run through of the Double Take..I decided to try this and see if it will give me what i'm looking for. I'm trying to create a thicker (sorta double tracked) type sound...however, even with the modulation 'off' and the 'Slop" around 2.5 only on my heavier sounds I can still hear some of that chorusy phasing. I have the voices set to '2' as that gives my direct signal a middle channel and the effected wet sound the L/R panned hard. I have the wet output ranging from -3db to -5.0db and it helps, but its still there. So my question is...being i'm not really looking for a true stereo type effect field and just looking to thicken the sound while sending 2 outs L/R to the PA (dual mono is a better term??) is there a better way to achieve this than the Double Take? I have a stereo delay just because I like how it sounds better overall. Most rooms I play these days are 150 capacity or under so almost everyone is sorta 'in my field'. I'm not concerned about losing 1/2 the audience really.

as a huge Metallica fan, this hurts to laugh at, lol

Yeah I love the poly pitch/capo idea, and for my song specific presets, I try to get everything on Path 2, as I leave Path 1 for the Poly effect to drop down 1/2 step. If I need room, I'll try and copy/paste a block or two from Path 2 Pre-Amp up to Path 1 to see if it'll paste or not. As most times its a comp or OD or something that isnt super DSP heavy.

I agree with Cruisin, either there is enough DSP to run the effect as its designed or it isnt and it'd be grayed out. For this purpose alone to spread things out, for me I use the 'break' between path 1 and 2 as the connection between amp and cab. everything and including before the amp block on top line, everything cab and post after on line 2. gives me the most DSP to play with stuff. Occasionally I have to put a 2nd amp on the 2nd path, but this gives me the most dsp for better quality/higher effects choices pre/post.... but to also answer your question the quality of the effect doesnt change because of more available DSP

great explanation, as always. Helps me understand it....

sound great, sounds i've always struggled to get. Where do I get them.....and any tips on adjusting for hotter pickups? I know the secret to a lot of the vintage tones is the lower output pickups. Maybe a gain block at the beginning -xdb?

However, when in stomp mode, you can setup buttons via the command center to act as snapshots.

I dont recall what I used specifically for settings, but the Horizon Drive into the Diezel, mesa 5 band EQ into a good V30 cab. roughly....

So my girlfriend got me the Hetfield EMG's...I got them installed and I love them. Decided to have some fun and record this song. Guitars are quad tracked. 2 are about 80/20 to each side and the other two are about 30/70 to each side pending which part I recorded that way the james/kirk parts are seperated to the side. Vocals arent my strength, lol....and im definately not a mixing genius, only done in reaper using generic effects that come with it.

So whats the best place to do it....Im ecstatic with my sounds and wanna share, havent ever done this...

that sounds backwards than what I'd expect. can you post the 2 versions of the preset(s) you were using? with details of what your experiencing? if you just load up an Amp block, its a horrible sound that is very harsh and sounds nothing like any guitar sound I've ever tried to mimic. I can either add a Cab block, IR block or change it to an Amp+Cab block and all of those will sound 1000% better with stock settings. the only time I'd expect it to sound dull and boring is if I was running an on board Cab (Amp+Cab, Cab Block or IR) into a 'true' speaker cabinet (not FRFR, PA Speaker). Your essentially EQ'ing the Amps sound twice and will sound like a wet blanket on your sound.

So your saying with just an Amp+Cab Block direct to PA it sounds worse than just an Amp block only with the same settings?

is it possible its attached to some other controller? and its being recalled to a different status upon being reloaded? Just a thought....probably too much whiskey tonight, ha!

i read it the opposite, like he is using a cab, and maybe thats why the Helix sounds bad....using a cab sim, into a cab. I'm not familiar with Kemper or their programming so not sure what it uses or requires. But I can see where youd get that he is running direct with no cab at all, and yes that would be horribly harsh.

this needs a Love emoji, like isnt strong enough

Ive only really done it in HX Edit, so not sure on the buttons needed for on the unit setup... but for HX Edit, I think its Window>Command Center... When the window opens up. it should look like the layout of your Helix. Click on the upper left footswitch (footswitch 1), on the right where the drop down is listed, choose HX Preset, then adjust the one slider so it says Previous/Prev, I think it defaults to that. Then Click on the 2nd footswitch (footswitch 2), on the right side drop down, change the slider to say 'next'. Those two buttons then should now show on your Helix (if your in stomp mode) as those buttons with the rest blank. To assign any snapshots, do the same process, choose the footswitch you want to assign and choose HX Snapshot (I always work from right to left on the bottom row. You can't reassign the Tap Tempo button/Mode buttons, even though it shows in the window layout, so you have to remember to start at the 2nd from the right. Click on the footswitch in HX Edit, then on the right side, there are the options of Press/Release, Type...and I think another one (sorry going off memory while at work). For most my snapshots I keep the type to Latching (meaning step on, and step on something else to make changes), the Press option you cycle through to choose the Snapshot you want the Pressing action to trigger (Snapshot 1 - Rhythm), repeat for all other snapshots. If you want to set up something like I do with Crazy Train where I have the momentary for quick lead fills. When you assign the Snapshot, under the type, change it to Momentary (Meaning it only activates while the button is held down), the Press action would be whatever snapshot you want it to trigger (in my Crazy Train notes above, it'd be snapshot 2, I think my Lead Snapshot), the Release option would be my rhythm snapshot (snapshot 1) this means when the button is pushed its triggering Snapshot 3 and when I release it resorts back to Snapshot 1. Any sort of Stomps that I assign to footswitches I still assign while in the regular preset layout screen. So I only use the Command Center to setup the navigation between presets and the navigation within the preset using snapshots.

I get your concerns, but some of them to me seem more overblown issues than they need to be. I should clarify that, its not meant as insulting...what works for one doesnt always work for another....what I mean is Its super easy to get a tone that is useable...if you really want to dial in something specific and be super technical, then yes you can get elaborate with it. I've got some pretty creative presets as well. Some more for functional live use (the way my brain works while trying to play and front my band) and some just because of routing options/limitations or dsp limitations. To each their own for sure on that stuff. A lot of the issues you share, to me.... are ones that get overblown by people that dont like the Helix or spend time getting to know what it does or more importantly what it doesnt do. I'm always willing to share my experience and thoughts constructively as I've been using modelers in all different formats for 20ish years. Direct, as FX only, 4 cable method, mixed with real amp and pedals....Wet/Dry/Wet rigs....been there done that all.

Yeah I dont get the long complex chains thing. I've had a great time literally throwing an Amp + Cab block in a preset. A wah pedal, OD pedals in front, maybe a reverb/delay after...and bam there's a tone. Just like I would have bought at a music store for more than what I paid for Helix. Now if I wanna trim the tone a bit with a fine toothed comb, then sure I'll add a Pre EQ and maybe a parametric after the cab.....but its not needed. if you wanna be an old school Guitar > TS808 > Amp (Non MV) > Cab > FOH then be it...its there, just need some knowledge (AKA EDUCATION) and your on your way. This is a great LIVE rig as well as a great STUDIO Rig. There are different tools in the 'box' to help you do both. I wouldnt ever expect to use the toothpick in a swiss army knife for sewing. Sure it could be done, but there are better methods.

Ahh yes, your starting on the wrong road, thus the directions to turn dont make sense. haha. Global settings - I have it set as 8 Preset Mode. So my overall approach is this....'build core tone presets that sound good, and then migrate those sounds into song specific presets'. Favorite Blocks now have made this stupid easy for me. Initially when designing my Core tones (Clean, Gritty, Pushed Amp, Crunch, Rock, Hard Rock (more to come eventually, but this gets me through 90% of the songs live)) I create a whole preset for that tone....for me to use when just jamming at home and auditioning 'tones' for songs I wanna build. I save the blocks labeling them as 'J Rock Amp' or 'J Gritty AMP IR' or 'J Dimension'. that way when I recall my favorites I can pull the ones that are 'my' tones I created. When I'm sound leveling my presets, also having 8 presets on a layout makes it much easier to jump between them. the way I set up my first Setlist - Core Tones, is that the bottom 4 stomps are the rhythm versions of those tones and the top 4 presets are the lead versions. So 'bank 1' is clean/gritty/pushed/crunch (rhythm on bottom, lead on top), 'bank 2' is rock/hard rock with the same rhythm/lead on bottom/top). Now, when I'm going to build my song specific presets (this is literally my walk through process)...I stay in the 8 preset mode....I do my building in HX Edit....but lets say I'm going to create All The Small Things - Blink 182, in Setlist 2 - Song Library. I pull up the blank preset location in Setlist 2 that I want, then on the Helix, I step on the Mode switch to go from 8 preset mode > Stomp Mode. I paste my favorite blocks into the preset that I need. In this case I'll add my J - Rock Amp, J Rock AMP IR, J Script Phase , J Reverb, J Lead Delay. I'll rename the preset "All The Small Things", I'll rename Snapshot 1 - Rhythm and change the color to Red. I'll go to Snapshot 2 and rename Lead/Bridge or something, I'll change the color to turquoise or green depending if I do Lead/Bridge as the name. (I always do Leads as Green and bridges or other parts as Turquoise). I'll go back to Snapshot 1, turn off the blocks that I want, add Snapshot controller to the output Volume at the end of the chain (I design presets at -4db, and then go up to 0.00db for lead snapshots depending on what the sound needs). I go to snapshot 2 and then turn on my Phaser/Delay blocks, adjust output to -1.00db. I'll then enter Command Center and program buttons 1/2/9/10 as I mapped up above. 1/2 being preset prev/next and 9/10 being assigned to snapshots 1/2 (rhythm/lead). On my Helix now I should only show the 4 buttons I assigned to the Stomp Layout screen. When I play live, I'll take the songs (always backup/export your presets) and import them into Setlist 3 in the order that we will be playing live so I can just go preset > preset > preset. If for some reason we call an audible and need to jump....I'll stomp the 'Mode' button which puts me back into 8 preset mode and gives me access to bank switching instead of preset switching to jump to the preset I need, go back into stomp mode and there is my live layout again waiting for me as designed for that song. The bigger less detailed version, lol Setlist 1 - Core tones (general designs, also good for home jamming or live impromptu stuff) Setlist 2 - Song Preset specific library Setlist 3 - Setlist order versions of presets created in Setlist 2. Hope this helps....let me know....

Yes, I dont have many presets that have snaps and stomps in them....but last night was my first outing with that type of approach. American Girl - Tom Petty. I have 5 snaps - Intro, Verse, Chorus, Solo 1 and Solo 2. Its a 3 amp beast of a preset.... Intro - Basically my Lead Gritty core tone, but with a chorus (dimension, switch 1, 25% mix) on Verse - Gritty Rhythm tone, no effects Chorus - Boosted Gritty for a touch more grit, but not into pushed amp territory Solo 1/2 - these are a more gainier marshall type tone Stomp - Dimension Chorus - Button 3. So when playing I start with Intro, then when words start I go to the Verse snap. When the 2nd part of the verse comes through where the picking is more prominent and not strumming chords, I kick the Stomp-Dimension on....when I go into the Chorus Snap the chorus is still on and I need to turn it off. Its weird, cause 2 of my snaps have the chorus block enabled and 3 of them have it disabled by how the snap is saved, but the stomp when active seems to override the snap response...however if the stomp is inactive, the snap works fine to turn the effect on.....seems to only affect turning the stomp block(s) off. Minor inconvenience as long as I know its there. Something like the chorus on this song isnt a huge thing if its on..... 1 fun thing I have done with another preset, Crazy Train... is adding the Phase 90 type sound to my leads, as well as getting the lead boost. I used to have to create duplicate blocks of everything I wanted....setting up one as a snapshot lead (for the solo) and another as a momentary stomp type switch for all the fill leads. With the command center....I have buttons 9/10 as snapshots 1/2. Button 7 I have also as a HX Snapshot button...but upon Press it activates Snapshot 2, and release it activates Snapshot 1. I have this switch set to Momentary...so that when I go to do the fill leads during the chorus'....its step on, shred, let button off...return to guitar normalcy, lol. Just to add to this as well, i have a seperate expression pedal I use for Wah all the time, its dedicated to Wah use when its present in my presets. But dont let that on board pedal go to waste either. I dont do a lot of volume pedal stuff.....but I essentially use the Expression pedal 1 to activate things like a snapshot change. Being that I play and sing, sometimes its easier to stand with my foot on the pedal (rockstar pose if you will with a leg up) and as I'm singing and need to change between 2 sounds....rock the pedal from toe>heel. I have it set so that when the pedal gets to 98% it activates whatever blocks I have attached to it, then when back to the other sound...toe is back down at 100%. You could essentially do this with the toe switch as well, but I've never been a fan of toe switches on expression pedals. Even my wah is set to activate at 98% so it bypasses in a 'step on' sorta method. FYI, apologize for not emailing you...any videos I tried to take were too large to try and send, i'm not familiar with uploading videos enough to make them smaller.

I got the new EMG Hetfield pickups installed into my guitar. Should only be a slight tone change from the pickups I had in there, but the guitar needed a fresh rewiring and such to be more solid. Normally I would cringe at a change like this, knowing the work I'd put in and would have to put in AGAIN to update my presets. Using core tones and then using those to create song specific presets with song specific effects and such. Although, with favorites...I can update my core tones, resave my favorites, and then simply go through my song library and just drop in the fave block where it applies. Will save me hours of update research/work. Thank you L6, that is all!