themetallikid

Oh yes, I apologize, I figured out it was the cable tone, but I was curious why it affected my acoustic snapshot/sound so dramatically compared to electric type sounds. And has anyone ever graphed how the different settings attenuate the high end?

I posted the below in the Relay Wireless section, however there are Helix questions here too that I thought others may benefit from. Hey All....question, last night I was making some final tweaks on my Helix and I got to a preset where I use the acoustic sim, and my tone was 180 degrees different than how I dialed it in, and what I heard at practice 2 days prior. This really stumped me for a bit. I then started A/B'ing with the cable that I use when I set up my presets (I was practicing my set, so I was using my wireless this time) and as soon as I plugged my cable in, BAM, there was my acoustic tone that I dialed in. Now the weird thing was that this was 13 songs into my set, and I hadn't noticed any difference really in tone. SOOOO.....questions. 1) Is the acoustic sim in the helix that high frequency driven that the cable tone would have such a dramatic affect on this sound but not any of my other tones? I even tried the A/B comparison on a preset that uses a clean tone and hardly noticed a difference. The difference was pretty staggering on the acoustic sound. As a rough estimate, the cable'd version gave me a nice clear acoustic top end, where as the Relay'd (cable tone) version sounded like it was coming through a wall or a blanket, almost like the highs were rolled off down to 400hz. 2) I noticed I did have the Cable Tone set to the max setting...not sure why I would have done that, unless it got bumped/moved at some point on my board and I never noticed. However, once I dialed it to '0' my actual cable tone was back. I then settled on about 11:00 on the dial, just short of halfway. Seemed to sorta taper the highs in a pleasant way, but not put a wet blanket on the high end at all. Is there any sort of chart that shows what the different settings on the cable tone do? Anyone have a fancy gadget that could graph that? I'd be curious to see.

Hey All....question, last night I was making some final tweaks on my Helix and I got to a preset where I use the acoustic sim, and my tone was 180 degrees different than how I dialed it in, and what I heard at practice 2 days prior. This really stumped me for a bit. I then started A/B'ing with the cable that I use when I set up my presets (I was practicing my set, so I was using my wireless this time) and as soon as I plugged my cable in, BAM, there was my acoustic tone that I dialed in. Now the weird thing was that this was 13 songs into my set, and I hadn't noticed any difference really in tone. SOOOO.....questions. 1) Is the acoustic sim in the helix that high frequency driven that the cable tone would have such a dramatic affect on this sound but not any of my other tones? I even tried the A/B comparison on a preset that uses a clean tone and hardly noticed a difference. The difference was pretty staggering on the acoustic sound. As a rough estimate, the cable'd version gave me a nice clear acoustic top end, where as the Relay'd (cable tone) version sounded like it was coming through a wall or a blanket, almost like the highs were rolled off down to 400hz. 2) I noticed I did have the Cable Tone set to the max setting...not sure why I would have done that, unless it got bumped/moved at some point on my board and I never noticed. However, once I dialed it to '0' my actual cable tone was back. I then settled on about 11:00 on the dial, just short of halfway. Seemed to sorta taper the highs in a pleasant way, but not put a wet blanket on the high end at all. Is there any sort of chart that shows what the different settings on the cable tone do? Anyone have a fancy gadget that could graph that? I'd be curious to see.

I have attached 3 presets that I updated with the 3.5 update. Using the dual cab block. These three presets use 3 different cab favorites I set up. When I set them up I didnt notice it, but had practice and noticed a few things to tweak, so here I sit tweaking and now I am hearing something that I dont know where its coming from, but I dont like it. I'm hearing a phasing, left on subtle chorus, roomy type sound. On Dead and Bloated there is a chorus, however its disabled. I tried disabling the dynamic ambience block but I still hear it. On Big Bang Baby, same thing with what I'm hearing. Meatplow is the same. I dont have any delay on the cabs setup. All blocks are stored as favorites. The amp combinations vary between all 3. Ventoux/Placatar, Ventoux/Ventoux, Placatar/Placatar. Does anyone else hear it? What is causing it, how do I fix it? ***Edit: Listening on headphones direct from Helix..... ****Edit #2 - Nevermind...I was using Reaper to help gauge levels, and had Monitor Input on. Makes sense what I was hearing now.

I use a combination. Sometimes if I have only a single effect to change, I dont feel like making a separate snapshot for it. Case in point, in my Stone Temple PIlots tribute we do the song Lady Picture Show. In the chorus there is an overdubbed guitar with a rotary/leslie type sound in the chorus. Rather than create a new snapshot, I just set button 7 to be a momentary stomp switch, I hold it down for the time I need the effect (2 seconds) and then let off. Could it be done in a snapshots, sure, but then my snapshot OCD would kick in and Im not sure where I would place in my song/preset template for the button layout. Where as the Stomp button stands out amongst the snapshots and is usually placed away from the snapshot buttons. To each their own.

Oh for sure, and will, initially i just programmed a change attached to a button for my leads, but easy enough to undo or change as well

You may not be the only one, lol, I recreated my presets and found a dual cab pairing I liked with a dual amp setup. Ventoux/Placatar Dirty. Really liked it, but wanted some more depth/3D-ness out of it. I played with the delay parameter on the Placatar cab as that was providing my low end oomph in the sound. I found that beyond 30ms it was too weird, but under 20 seemed to not quite give me a 'room-ish' sorta resonance. So I settled on 25ms. What threw me for a loop is that when I hit a preset that had a lead and I added my lead stuff to the rhythm sound (OD - Pillars, and a delay between the amp/cab) it was pushed somewhere I didn't like. Are the new cab blocks linear? I have listened to Jason Sadites talk about linear vs non-linear and I get it context to a compressor or a delay and how its input affects its output, where as some blocks are no different if you increase the input going into it. Or is it just because I have the delay prior to the cab block that i'm getting a bigger than 25ms sound because the delays are now being time shifted as well? Would shifting the delay post cab clean this up then?

The IR/Cab categorization that Sasha was referring to would make sense. I have a few song specific presets where I use an acoustic simulator path and also a dual amp/cab path. I could fit this before in my preset. Path 1 would be all pre-amp type stuff (acoustic blocks, amp blocks, eq/comp type stuff). Path 2 was my "post' section that had Eq's, IR blocks, cabs, delays/verbs. In my old preset, running a stereo path, I had acoustic stuff prior to my signal split on path 1. Paths 1a/1b went to 2a/2b respectively, where they stayed separate with an EQ/IR/Cab block before joining together for a final delay/reverb/retro reel finish. Currently while reworking my presets with the dual stock cabs, I cannot add an IR to the same 2A path. My current path 2 blocks on this preset are a dual stock cab, dynamic ambience. When I try to add an IR block I get a memory error. It would be awesome if they could resolve this, but also makes sense that the old cabs werent 'thought of' by the processor/coding that way. I could be wrong, but it matches my experience so far.

Welcome, I will note that the boost is not global...however, you can make it global in a way by programming it that way in each preset, but then tailor the boost accordingly setting wise to that presets sound. Obviously boosting a high gain sound would be different than a slight breakup.

Its a greatly flexible feature and really allows you to be insanely creative. For example If you create presets utilizing both paths fully... (and can deal with the slight audio gap in preset switching), however you can't fit enough stuff into a preset to really take advantage of snapshot changes. You could potentially create an amazing network of presets. For example, if I had 5 core tones and then had 5 lead tones for 10 total. You could setup the bottom row to be presets 1-5 and the top row to be presets 6-10 (6 is the lead version of 1, 7 lead version of 2 and so on). So essentially you have the rhythm sounds on the bottom and lead sounds on the top. As long as you save each preset on the same snapshot... you could link to the other presets for a pedalboard sort of layout. So on preset 1, you would have presets 2-10 available to choose from. On preset 2, you would then have to make sure you setup preset 1 as well as 3-10. Follow that process to all 10 presets. To simplify that setup, you could assign a certain button to be a 'lead boost' for all of your presets. So on your 5 Core preset tones, you would have your lead boost (for me, this means turning on OD/Delay/Gain Block Boost (or Output Block adjustment)) attached to a specific button, I like button 7, its on the corner and easy to reach. So every preset would use Button 7 as a lead boost. When I'm mapping out my button layout, I leave Button 7 as a 'Stomp' setup labeled "Lead Boost" and Then link the presets on the other buttons. So much flexibility. You can really do anything you want.

If you push your 'mode' button (above tap tempo) you can change into Stomp Mode or you scan stay in whatever mode you like. HOWEVER, When your in command center, you can assign those buttons to be anything you would like. Snaps, stomps, presets...whatever. In your case you are using snapshots in a single preset. So every snapshot (8 total) can have its own button layout. So if you look at the drop down above the image of the helix it says snapshot 1. So all the changes you make are only visible when snapshot 1 is being used. If you change that to snapshot 2, you need to assign everything you would want to see in snapshot 2. Super power, but also super confusing. If you are like me and only use the same layout for the whole song, then follow my steps above. You assign the buttons all on snapshot 1, but then copy/paste to apply to all snapshots. Otherwise if your on snapshot 1, and choose snapshot 2, you lose all your assignments, until you return to snapshot 1 again.

You need to assign the button on every snapshot. It was a new feature in 3.15. Basically every snapshot could potentially have a different layout with what you see button wise. But if you want consistency throughout the whole preset the easiest is to follow these instructions: 1) create your 'button layout' on snapshot 1 2) then right click one of the buttons and choose 'Copy All" 3) Right click again and choose 'Clear All'. This will then return you to regular HX Edit screen after confirming you want to clear all assignments 4) go back into command center, right click again and choose 'Paste All'. This will then paste your Snapshot 1 layout, to all 8 snapshots. Otherwise what is happening is that you are on Snapshot 1 (button 1), you push button 2 to go to Snapshot 2. However, on Snapshot 2, you could potentially reassign button 1 to NOT be Snapshot 1, it could now be a stomp button to bypass your delay, or even be a different snapshot. Super powerful if you have a need for it, but confusing if you dont know thats an ability.

I havent uploaded to customtone before. If you PM me an email I can just email the presets.

I've been getting the itch to jam with some music like I used to when I was younger and stuff that isnt in my current live play lists. So I'm revisiting my Metallica days. I decided to create a preset that emulates each albums sorta tone. I'm only 2 albums in, but the Helix is amazing for this. Kill em all I simply grabbed the Mod2204 amp added a Stupor OD in front 0 gain/7.5 level, added a stereo cab with greenback 25/57 and mesa v30/160 combination and with minimal tweaking was in the ballpark for a nice early/mid 80's thrash type tone that worked well. Added a TS808 and a delay for some lead work and off to play The Four Horsemen I went. 10 minutes to create that tone. Ride The Lightning was my task today, more complicated tone to stay true to their setups. I believe they slaved Marshalls into Mesa power sections back in this time. I've never done this in Helix or tried it...so here I went. I grabbed the MOD2204 Preamp only block (bypassed initially), added a Mesa Rectifier amp block, kept the same cab combo as above, greenback 25/57 and mesa v30/160. I lowered the rectifier gain to 0.0 to where I was getting more just the power section. Even with gain on 0, I was getting a gritty cleanish sound...loved it. raised the master to about 6.5, lower the bias, raised the sag a bit and liked what I was getting. I then unbypassed the Mod2204, brought the gain up to about 6, hell everything to about 6 as a starting point. I lowered the sag, raised the master (what does this do with no power section?) and it was getting really close. Something was just off.....OH, they probably boosted the Marshall.. so added the Stupor OD as mentioned above...also added the Mesa EQ between the Mesa amp and Cab. Boosted 80hz about 1.5, 240hz about .7, cut 750hz about 1.2, boosted 2.2khz about 2db and 6khz about 1.5. Adjusted the Mesa amp settings to add more thickness and less bit by a touch....and then proceeded to enjoy Creeping Death and Ride The Lightning before shuffling off to work. All in all...this tone took about 15 minutes on a laptop with no mouse attached, that would have helped a lot. I mention all that cause I literally was telling my girlfriend that Helix is so amazing to be able to create those tones that quickly, that accurately, and it was fun to build them. I'm sure some final tweaking could be done, but when volume was balanced between my Helix and the Spotify audio....it was pretty tough to distinguish one from the other in a way (minus my mistakes, lol)

agreed, the early versions of AXE FX that I had had the tuner in the editor and no audio was processed there. I'm fine without, but dont understand why its not a thing.

Someone asked this in another thread and I havent had a chance to look into it, but its an interesting thought. With the Helix Floor (full Helix version) that has the mic input. Could you essentially add a Send 1 (or 2,3,4) block to send the signal to the Banshee, but then return the mic sound into the Helix Mic Input? I know that part is easy, but the options at this point could be interesting 1 - get an XLR > 1/4 cable to go back into the Return 1 Jack 2 - go into Mic Input, but then would need to make sure that the 2nd path is set to Mic input and that could cause problems for some presets 3- is there a block you can insert that would take its feed from the Mic Input similar to how the Return 1/2/3/4 would work? So you would go Send 1 and the next block would be an input block? I'm thinking this can't be done, but if you could fit your preset in the top path with a send block being the last block before the output, you could use Path 2 to be your Mic Input and you'd have a talkbox path then.

I love the Dimension, I use switch 1 only, usually about 32-35% mix. I saw Jason Sadites demo of the Ampeg Liquifier and when listening with headphones and it run in stereo it sounds pretty great.

I can't pretend to understand what half of those specs mean, but 10 slots is enough for me. I use 4 currently. and that leaves 6 experimenting or adding other sounds. I typically will have about 6-8 sounds for my own tones and then build song/presets off those. Usually the cleanish ones share the same cab/IR and the gainier ones share as well. Unless there is a unique enough sound I need. Also, beyond the 10 slots restriction....is anyone going to notice the difference in those specs live? In a sub 200 capacity club, in a band mix....I doubt it. Again, waiting to see what the upcoming update brings to the table. Edit, the Iridium looks good as well. Which at that pricepoint I might as well just get a stomp then right?

Found this, it seems like the perfect option for me. And maybe others..... https://www.joyoaudio.com/product/11.html

1) I have asked myself if I 'need' one and I think the payoff could be worth it. I asked if there were options that others were using that would meet MY needs. I asked myself, searched, and didnt find an exact product that met my criteria so was asking for help on products I may not be aware of. 2) My usage needs are just that, a cover band, mostly. However even in my own tone needs, I prefer keeping a cab authentic to the amp I'm using. Fender > Fender Cab, Marshall > Marshall type cab etc. In my current project the original artist (tribute band) uses a dual amp type setup. Thus the need for a stereo option, or at least a cheap enough option to run 2 that can be controlled by the helix on a per preset/snapshot level. I run 2 different IR's (one for each amp), Sometimes I run 2 of the lighter gain amp to get the right sound for the song and sometimes I run 2 of the heavier gained amp to get the right sound. There are also a few songs where there is an acoustic sound and the lighter gain sound, which then gets me into 3 or 4 different IR's in the same song/preset. So being able to switch them would be greatly beneficial. 3) I'm not one to get lost in the 'rabbit hole' I find sounds that work for what I'm using. I'll try other ones out, but I don't buy the 700 IR packages. I'm happy with York IR's and even have been happy with stock cabs, which is why I had at one time considered the Powercabs, however I just don't know if the issues I read about those would be worth it to me or not for the price point. 4) the TC Electronic one would be perfect, if I had a way to control the IR via snapshot at all. Priced and designed well for sure. In a crazy world where I had a well educated sound guy, I suppose I could just run 2 of the TC's and run them from different outputs. Not sure how it would affect the sound guys mix overall. But I could run 3 TC's and just make sure each IR is going to its own output. Each output would then be Mono essentially and panned. Light Gain Cab - Left Output XLR Heavy Gain Cab - Right Output XLR Acoustic Cab - send 1 That seems like a mess though and for the $300ish plus shipping and taxes and such I might as well just spend a little extra on a HX Effects, which then gets into more than I wanna spend.

Ok so I'm debating about getting an offboard IR loader to offload the DSP requirements for cabs/IR's in my presets. While I'm not 'running out of 'dsp' on my presets often, I have a few that do suffer the compromise as I create presets for songs and when you get to 2 or 3 amp sounds in a song, it gets tough. Even as creative as I can be with moving blocks and routing things. So, pending the upcoming update and if it solves anything that way for me, what IR loaders would/could accomplish what I'm looking for? I've searched the Sweetwater App and messaged my rep for advice, but curious if anyone here is doing something similar. I'm looking for: Stereo IR/Cab capability (not a deal breaker if not available) control via Helix (midi or otherwise) If the stereo thing isn't available, I would not be against buying a 2nd one to split the L/R potentially. Not a deal breaker though. I love the specs of the TC Electronic pedal, but it just doesn't have the controlling capability I'd like as some songs would require changing the IR via snapshots. Anything anyone is using?

All of the above is great material. To make it more concise.... Gain staging is just a fancy term for making sure the output of one piece of equipment (or block in the helix) doesnt exceed the input level the next piece of gear (or block in the Helix) needs in order to do its job properly. It doesnt take much to do this properly, but also doesnt take much to make this a mess if you dont do it properly.

Pete Thorn just reviewed some IEM's that actually have an external mic in the bud and allow you to mix in room sound via the battery pack. Was debating getting these.... I dont recall the link, but if you go on youtube and search Pete Thorn IEM review, it should be top of the list or near it. I've never liked IEM's for full band stuff. Great for singing, horrible for guitar. Ultimately I ended up using one IEM in (right side facing band), one out (left side facing my powered wedge). I put the rest of the band and my vocals in the one ear and then had my guitar coming out the wedge only. This had me keeping volume in check and also allowed me to mix my 'mix' easily. Generally my mix in the 'right' ear was mostly just vocals and a little of the other guitar players guitar as I could catch enough bass from the FOH speakers. When I was happiest with IEM's, you really need to dial in a subtle but present reverb/delay sound to make it seem a bit bouncy in the room.

I know this is based on a AITB setup. But lots of videos still show people running it into an amp on a edge of breakup sorta setting, but getting all their tones from the Legacy settings. I know its a 'use your own way' sorta use-case..... but what would be the advantage to do it that way vs drive>IR/Cab? I'm toying with the idea of redoing my bands presets using this as it seems super flexible, sounds good and uses less DSP than the 2 amp blocks that I am currently using.

Lol, I agree with your first statement for sure. Yeah that is true, I did not think of it in terms of DSP and how that would affect things changing from Favorite amp 1 - Brit 2204 changing to Favorite amp 2 - Badonk and the differences in the DSP required for those. Good point.