lawrence_Arps

I hope you are solving the issue. I wanted to comment on the statement above. One of the least successful studio technicques is to create a tone in isolation. Its the dreaded Solo button syndrome. It took me years to stop EQing in solo and to start listening to tones in the context of the mix. Thats the real beauty of a product like Helix...its easy to do this. Of course, once you have a tone that works really well in the mix, dont expect it to sound good on its own.

all true! Im not resistant to metering - just not crucifying Helix for not having it. If it had one Im sure I would use it.

Hi DD I kind of get what you say here...but have always just done this by ear I have tried both a mixer channel meter and a SPL meter. Both gave variable results based on the tone and amount of compression or drive. In the end I have stopped using either and just use my ears - starting with keeping amp blocks roughly at unity as DI suggests, then comparing between patches. I do final checks by playing to backing tracks at reasonably high volume while switching between patches and snapshots. I do note how many people struggle with hearing compression and would like a gain reducation meter...but again, part of me asks "if you cant hear it why use it?" One thing that an input meter would allow is for exact matching between Helix hardware and Nelix native.

not sure how useful a meter would be. If you think of any "real world" pedal board and amp almost no pedals have a meter on them and no amps do (ok there might be an exception) yet we happily managed to gainstage by being sensible and switching things off and on to check that the levels were all consistant. No reason not to do i the same way in Helix! ...and no guitar is going to clip the input.....and Helix pretty much can't clip internally...(i dont mean you cant over drive blocks..but thats not clipping in this sense). If any one can explain why a meter would help Im keen to hear.

the acoustic comments dont make sense.... Tone creation for an acoustic tone would take place in the Helix (or other device), and the PC is only acting as FRFR. You dont EQ an acoustic guitar at the speaker cabinet! The PC is absolutley capable of creating fantastic acoustic tones. There is no reason why you cant do acoustic from the XLR out. Oh, and there is nothing tricky about MIDI and Helix....I ran a lead and it worked perfectly with no settings needing to be changed.... ...sorry it didnt work out for you.

I think we should recognise the legal implications of making statements about future releases...from share price to being sued for fraud...No business can risk divulging this sort of infomation with impunity. My personal view is that Line 6 provides stunning support and goes far beyond expectations in contining to upgrade products like Helix. It was a superb product when it was released...and it just keeps getting better!

snapshots

so..if you can hear it working....its set too low. If its too extreme , its set too high. now to be fair: I some times set the ratio a bit higher when setting the threshold to make it easier to fund the sweet spot then reduce the ratio a bit to tame it down... There is a story floating around here about a US producer who came here to do a record..and the first thing he did was tape over all the meters so he was not distracted by them and used his ears to mix rather than his eyes. Interesting concept. I think is a true story but I wasn't there myself.

Line 6s advice is to run the helix on full (at the bug knob - or bypassit) and control volume at the PC

guys...one final OT post (apologies to those who are annoyed) I never intended any particular insult of the US. I love many aspects of US culture music , visual arts, comedy, technology ...I could go on. When you live so far from the rest of the world (and actually get left off many maps whuch is a PITA) it is easy to feel that every online conversation is premised on the US..unless specifically stated. There are a lot of Europeans on music forums which helps. My original satement might not have raised as much ire if I had not tried to be clear that I was being "ironic" or poorly witty or whatever. antway Peace!

well actually this started with the observation that many US people purchased Helix with the explicit intent of returning it soon. Thats a topic worthy of a thread. Some people made informative replies that educated me and gave me greater understanding, Thank you. Now others made comments about my country and I responded. Since this thread has now turned negative...let me point out: Sydney is in Australia not New Zealand... Mad Max was made in Australia not New Zealand. in case there is doubt...Australia is 1000 miles from New Zealand. There is no Bridge! ...and I love my Helix and a Powercab is on the way! so there!

dang....Wellington. Since the country woke up again with the 7.8 in Fiordland...then the 2 big Christchurch quakes..(actually over 20, 000 quakes in that series), then the massive 7.8 Kaikoura quake (another 20,200 aftershocks)...well its probably likely that Wellington will go next (thats a progression up through the country for those without a map). We got beaten up by the Kaikoura quake -no buildings actually collapsed here but 60 have had to be demolished. still...its a great country to live in - and I mean that sincerely.

some interesting perspectives. Hadn't thought about the online thing.... And yes...free healthcare, very few handguns, no military stuff, and you're welcome for Lord Of The Rings etc. ...but we do live in one of the most geologically dangerous places in the world!

Just an observation and comment....not trying to start a war here... Observing behaviour on this and several other fora I find myseld gobsmacked at the way US buyers use the return laws. Time and time again I see people actually decide in advance that they are going to buy something, take it home and then probably return it. In the real world (thats sarcasm and I mean outside of the US) you do your research and you expect to spend time after your purchase learning your new device and adjusting your preconceptions etc. In the States its like everybody expects instant gratification . The result must be detrimental to the businesses that supply musical equipment. Here in New Zealand you can return only if if the device can be proven to be not fit for purpose. Some retailers will traet regular custonmers well in this area as well. In general however, we have to do our research and work with our purchases. In this century cant remember ever buying something before having read the owners manual from beginning to end and reading dozens (if not hundreds of user reviews), yet clearly many US buyers of relatively high end gear buy without any idea of how the device works, what the capabilities are, how its operated etc. Maybe this is true in other countries but US buyers dominate the Fora..?

No one has picked up on the "discontinous" comment! not sure what is meant by that? ddmilne, dispite what many trolly comments have said, if you take a brand new helix out of the box, plug it into something vaguly hifi and pull up any of the basic factory amp patches (the ones named after the amp) then you will get a very good representation of what that actual amp would sound like (if miced up and played through the same speaker). I made my own usable patches within 10 minutes of turning this on for the fisrt time. Yes, the ones I make now sound "better" but in every case and through multiple speaker systems the Helix sounds as good as the majority of players rigs.. I say this to support the earlier comment that there must be something fundamentally wrong

lets try another way of explaining things. Lets assume stereo input to a stereo reverb with stereo monitoring. At mix say 25% If you put a click into the left input you will hear a click from the left output, plus the reverb of the click from both left and right outputs. Not the same signal as the reflections will be different. If you put a click into the right input you will hear a click from the right output, plus the reverb of the click from both left and right outputs. Not the same signal as the reflections will be different. If you increase the mix to 100%: If you put a click into the left input you will not hear a click from either output, but you will hear the reverb of the click from both left and right outputs. Not the same signal as the reflections will be different. If you put a click into the right input you will not hear a click from eithe routput, but you will hear the reverb of the click from both left and right outputs. Not the same signal as the reflections will be different. This is the exact correct action that should happen.

putting aside the rather petulant tone of this thread for one moment... If you have a genuine reverb environment, say a nice mid sized auditorium, then you might have 2 speakers to feed the stereo signal in, and out in the room , 2 microphones to collect the reverb. It should be obvious that both microphones are going to hear both speakers at similar volumes. What will differ is the mix of early and late reflections and the overall arrival times. The result is that hard panned sounds will come out sounding like they are in the middle. This is exactly the behaviour that the HX reverb should be exhibiting...and does.

Twohandband - you always need to filters comments on here through the type of music the writer is involved in. So, yes, there are some styles of modern music where a 10millisecond patch change might be noticeable. But not many. I have used helic in a three peice playing a mix of top 40/classic rock/Blues/Funk and have never notived the lag, nor has any band member - and that includes on recording from the desk. I do use snapshots..but only 4, and so many changes inside a song are patch changes - no problem. Likewise...I have never had a problem of any kind with the tuner....pedal....reliability...backups...firmware upgrades...

no problems...no issues.. great update. Love most of the new stuff... Well Done Line 6

In general these tonesare cleaner in reality than they seem when you listen to the mix...Over the years I slowly moved my classic crunch to being much cleaner and now its more like the classic recordings...but it needs a fair bit of volume in the room to really work for the player.

! have 16 "ME" tones... 4 patches with 4 snap shots. the patches are: Vintage - arbitrator - with colorsoundwah/comp/filter/centaur/leslie/phaser/tapeecho/ereverb Classic - Plexi - with Voxwah/comp/filter/centaur/Screamer/phaser/tapeecho/ereverb Modern - 2 amp patch PRS clean/PRS Solo - with Vettawah/comp/filter/centaur/Screamer/chorus/Vintagedigital/ tapeecho/ereverb Custom, Studio pre and the modded marshall with Vettawahcomp/centaur/Screamert/harmony/Trichorus/Vintagedigital/ Delay/reverb each patch has Clean rhythm , Drive Rhythm, Clean Solo, Drive Solo with this I can do anything.

just to fill out some of the commentary When you push a low power speaker hard it will flex along the cone as the spider and coil (the narrow bit) tries to move faster than the outer edge of the cone can keep up with. These ripples produce frequencies that are much higher than the input signal. Its actually why something like a 30watt celestion sounds better on some guitar sounds than say, a JBL 12". Anyway, this, plus odd vibrations cuased by grill cloth flapping etc, will make a bunch of unpleasant fizzy sounds that dont travel much betond the cabinet,(high freqs absorb faster) . A few of the lower ones reach our ears and make the speaker sound "nice". A microphone put up against the cab will capture some of those sounds...

this is all very weird to read and watch... Ive seen The Police several times, and have also listened to several live DVDs, some from the same tours I attended and some from others...and the guitars sound different on every one. In fact, I struggle to think of any guitarist Ive seen on multiple tours where the guitar sound seemed identical...and thats even taking into account the vagrancy of memory! Likewise...until the advent of modelling (or profiling for the pedants) I dont think Ive ever hear someone play live with the identical tone that was on a record. Im not saying its not close....Brian May always sounded like Brian May, Eric Johnson always sounded like Eric Johnson, but only recently have I started to hear tones that made me think it was exactly the same. I am assuming that in these cases (and confirmed on some cases where I did the research) that they either used a modeller in the studio (and the same patch for the song live) or profiled the recorded tone. It actually disappoints me a little..Just as I dont really want to hear a note for note reproduction of the studio performance I dont really want the same tones either...I like LIVE music!.

I think there is value in actually learning what each parameter does rather than having someone elses settings. When I first started out (back beforer electricity was dicovered) I was undisciplined with new devices and would make multple changes without really understanding the impact. It was actually learning to operate analog synthesizers that taught me how to do this better. Basically, put aside time that is solely for learning the device. What I mean is, dont try to do this in practice time or at a rehearsal. In helix there are settings in place on each block when you load it. Use these as your starting point. Liten to the change between the block switched on and off. Then selct one parameter - lets say its a delay block. Choose the feedback control as an example. Increase it by no more than 10% and listen to the change in the effect. return it to the base setting and listen again, Increase it by 20% etc etc. Spend 15 minutes or so doing this to each paramter, each time returning to the base setting as a comparison and only exploring one parameter at a time. After you have explored all of the parameters, repeat the process exploring the impact of changing two at a time...etc etc ertc. This may sound like a slow process but in the long run it is much more efficient. There are very few effect sounds (or analog synth sounds) that I cannot hear and create a mental list of the settings that will recerate that sound (more or less). The goal is to be able to hear something in your head and go straight to the device and create it. I do belong to the Les Paul school of thought that you should create this way araound and not by going to the device and experimenting blindly - but each to their own. I hope these ideas are useful to you.

you guys seem insane to me. Guitarists have been working with this issue since the 1930's on "real" amps...and with the advent of stomp boxes some had dozens of settings...yet they just got on and set their tones up at rehearsal and maybe tweaked the amp a bit at the gig. I thought the whole point of helix was to be like a "real" amp? I have not had previously with the Pod, the HD500 or now with the helix , any problems in leveling presets and setting tones.