lawrence_Arps

its been said many times....start by ensuring the patch has the same volume with blocks turned on as with blocks turned off. This sets the Chan Volume about right. also... Why is this question of patch leveling always asked when its no different to having a big analog pedal board,,,you still have to level out each pedal so whats different??

There are several points in the chain (speaker, Mic, preamp) where high frequencies might be introduced. Even if all the gain staging is clean the sum and difference harmonics will be present. (a signal with two frequencies present will generate harmonics at the sum and at the difference...so 2kHz and 3kHz will generate 1 kHz and 5kHz.) These will be added to by the system you play though ending up in more HF than originally intended - so it does make sense to bandpass the IR.

buy a towel.

it sounds from your post as if you have no other volume control on your monitoring system? Im running into an L2...sometimes two. I have the L2 input set on about 9-10 oclock at home , maybe 11 for a gig.

its been said before...your bypass level should be about the same as your active level. With all your FX off, switch the amp model in and out...the volume should stay roughly the same. If you want to have Rhythm/Solo differences, use the above method for lead and turn the Channel volumes down for the rhythm patch/snapshot. This will ensure you always have headroom and no risk of clipping. I always run the master volume knob on full at home and at 90% (4oclock) live in case the stage volume goes up and I need a little more.

I do understand the difference...Digital Clipping is truly horrible. My point is that the headroom available is more than sufficient to enable patches to end up a little louder than unity without any risk of clipping. I don't know how Line 6 have calibrated their levels, but I do know that many inexperienced DAW users misuse their meters by running signal that average much higher than intended. there is an argument that having a meter might create worse practice rather than better. If 0dBu is = -18dBFS and this translates in some way to the Helix then a well balanced amp block will have at lest 18dB of head room on the very loudest guitar strums - more than enough to prevent clipping. Im not claiming to know Line 6s internal gain structure but in principle this should hold true. The only risk is overloading the AD convertor at the input and thats why we have the Pad. As with any and every other product on the market there will be different results based on the output level of the particular guitar. Helix' Pad should be set for the loudest in put you ever use and left alone.

There is something fundamentally odd about these issues. Its been said many times in this and the TGP forum that when setting up amp and drive blocks you should simply check that the overall volume is the same as with the amp block bypassed (by the same I mean near enough - +/- 3dB.) Once this is done its very unlikely that you would get anywhere close to clipping . Adding a drive that is permanently on means you might have to check that the volume remains the same with both on/off. If the drive is adding gain to push the front of the amp then you reduce the channel volume. If you add a drive , EQ or compressor that is switched in for solo boost then its going to be between 6 and 10dB...still no way that will clip. None of this needs a meter. ....and, if you have tube amp and half a dozen boutique pedals there are no meters! If you have rhythm patches separate from solos then the rhythm patches should be quieter than the Lead (by which I mean that bypassing the amp is louder than when activated).Common sense! Its possible to imagine having a drive stomp post the amp and adding +30dB of level....but why would you. :rolleyes: and signal to noise is just not an issue as the helix has less noise than any tube amp in history.... Oh yeah...and people moaning about having no way to set levels between patches! There is volume control on every block including the outputs... Just dont understand what the problem is.

two points....clip lights often come on 6dB below clip....thats half power. and..., the Alesis 112s are a rebranded Alto 112s and are about probably about 200 watts RMS if you are lucky.

a couple of comments after reading some of the posts above... Firstly - the soundperson should not be the arbiter of good tone. It is the artists job to produce the tone that they wish the audience to hear. Sure, if you are on a tour with a stable sound person (if thats not an oxymoron) then achieving your sound might have a collaborative element to it, but in the real world of most musicians the soundperson's job is simply to run the system and try not to screw up the artists sound too much. FWIW I have done a lot of sound and yes, on occasion, I have deliberately altered the sound the audience hears due to a professional opinion that it would improve the gig. The statement above is a generalisation. Another point that seems to be missed...maybe its taken for granted... is that the range of tones considered desirable by artists varies immensely. From Dimebag to Dimeola, from Vai to StVincent, from Santana to Satch, from Prince to Queen to King, there is no such thing as "correct" tone. If the Artist chooses to use it ,it is what it is...an artistic statement. Finally - to return to the topic of the thread - Of all the revered tones that came out of the "golden age" of guitar almost none have been sculpted in the sort of detail under discussion. Artists like Clapton, Beck, Page, Santana, Moore, Hendrix etc might adjust the treble and bass knobs a bit and then just get on with it. The only two examples I can think of who use extensive EQ as part of their rigs are Scholz and Billy Gibbons. Even more to the point are the thousands of guitarists who show up to gigs where the backline is hired in ...sometimes its a good one sometimes not. While I dont quite agree that the public are "as dumb as a bag of hammers" the point is well made. Of a club crowd of a couple of hundred (non-musician) punters maybe one or two could hear the difference between a Chinese solid state amp with a MetalZone pedal and a Mesa Boogie (assuming the same person dialed in the tone)..and maybe not. There are plenty of stories of big rock acts with walls of marshalls on stage and a Mesa combo miked up in a roadcase under the stage. We are all such cork sniffing, superstitious, reactionary, old fashioned, opinionated nitwits at times!

Ive never found this much harder than any standard way toe switch - except on soft carpet where the curved base of helix seems to exacerbate the issue. If its on a board, a case, or a hard floor its just right for the amount of weight that goes on the switch when you lean into it standing. - I do concede its almost impossible to engage while sitting!

well no...it doesn't hiss as much. I do prefer the full creamy tones. Yes. Never full throttle. No Bones.

Ive got the Big Muff (Triangle) in my chain against four different amps and it reacts very differently on each. I had a big Muff back in the day and it too was very sensitive to the amp. I remember as kid rehearsing with my Big Muff and a New Zealand amp called a Jansen 8-50 - sort of a hifi twin. Sounded great - fat and warm. Then we got a guest spot at a club playing though the house bands gear (a Holden 100 - another great NZ amp) the Muff sounded thin and horrible...go figure. I was particularly surprised as the guitarist in the band (Odyssey, a great glam rock group) had a 1961 Les Paul SG style plugged straight in to his Holden and got one of the fattest tones Ive ever heard. ...anyway as for the Triangle fuzz - I like it a lot and it sounds like I expect a Big Muff to sound like.

further to this Even if I go though several snapshots and switch stomps on for a given song all I need to do to get back to ground zero is to change patch. Given I have a default for each amp even if its a segue to the next song I can select the amp that has got the appropriate snapshot and Im away (remembering that the Clean Mesa defaults to Snap 1 Clean rhythm and the Marshall defaults to Snap2 Crunch Rhythm etc) .

yes... There are two ways I can use the stomps in this model...the first is as noted above - just flick over to say, the drive solo snap, pop into stomp mode, switch on an FX or two, then go back to Patch/Snap mode for the song...and whatever FX are switched on will stay in the snap until I change amp. all good. The other way might involve some decisions before the set where I might make a call to have certain FX on certain snaps for certain amps...so I could quickly switch them on and hit save...easy to redo for the next set or even between songs if I needed assuming the songs are not run together. Regardless the overall setup remains consistent and even mistake friendly... Of course If I need an Effect thats not in the list of 10 then its another patch dedicated to that...whammy or harmonies comes to mind. Ill probably set those up on the next four patches keeping the snaps the same...

Im currently using 4 patch at the top and 4 snaps on the bottom. Each Patch is an amp...Mesa chan 1, Marshall plexi, Dr Z, Mesa Lead. The four snaps are always Clean Rhythm, Drive Rhythm, Clean Solo, Drive Solo. The Clean mesa defaults to Clean Rhythm, The Marshall to Drive Rhythm, The DrZ to clean solo and the Mesa lead to Drive Solo. Over in stomp mode I have 10 stomps....Minataur, Screamer, Triangle, Trem, Comp, Phaser, Chorus, tape delay, vintage delay, reverb - and Wah on the toe switch. The Mesa clean patch recalls snap 4 with the screamer on, otherwise its reverb only but I can pre switch fx across all 4 snaps if I need them. works well and is very intuitive.

sure I have seen some wah switches that are pretty soft. Still have no problem with the helix one. Also have no problem with the Wah and snapshots - all good for me. Curious what you mean about "when you're using a real amp and wah pedal. Not as much "dancing" on the pedals l" since using real amps and pedals means no presets, so snapshots, no memories so one is constantly tap dancing as opposed to the Helix where a couple of single taps per song is the norm?

useless when you use a volume pedal tho. I suppose it might be alright on one of the Ext expression pedals... Anyone who is accustomed to Crybabys or any of the classic wahs is comfortable with the switch.

glad to see this was taken in the spirit intended (well mostly :) ) yup Im more than one of this at various times myself....I also think we could change the brand and model and it still works!

Hi ya'll I truly don't want to demean anybody....For comedic purposes only!. Hope this isn't to much for the moderators! There are clearly cohorts of people out there in guitar land who fall into categories: 1. The experienced informed 40+ player/engineer. Many years of playing - often through substandard gear, sometimes through magic amps, and comfortable with every type of modelling since the Shultz Rockman. he takes the Helix home, plugs it in (having checked the manual first to get the levels, connections etc correct).....and it sounds fantastic! The Fenders sound like Fenders, the Marshalls sound like Marshalls...the drives make it distorted, the reverbs and delays make it wet. 99% of what he needs is there already and its all more convenient and cheaper than he could have ever hoped for. On a good day he might use 3 or 4 amp models...or maybe just one! This guy is happily married. 2. The Man with the Golden Ears. This guy might like the Helix in principle but nothing sound perfect enough. The Marshalls don't sound exactly like the Marshall he once hired for a session, the Fender doesnt sound like the The one used by his hero...the Hall reverb isn't as transparent as an EMS, the Tubescreamer is not as perfect as the one he bought in 1978 and has modded every year since. Oh and the 150ms patch change makes it UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE to ever use the helix live! This guy is single cos no woman ever lives up to the perfection of his fantasy. 3. The over reaching beginner This guy is hoping the Helix sounds as good as his Peavey Rage... With no experience in patching/signal flow or having never used a tape delay or a reverb he cant work out how to get any good sounds out of helix...and he plugged it straight into his $20 computer speakers to be sure it would sound great. Hes a 3 stroke kinda guy! 4 The Troll Im really suspicious about some of the trolls. You know the "it just sounds so digital.....Fizz....slow patch change...nothing works properly, I compared it to my xxxx.... I truly wonder if some of these posts are from staff who work for the various competitors and spend their time trolling in order to undermine products in order to increase their own sales. This guy pleasures himself. 5.The complete lollipop. Now maybe this guy is actually a nice human being...but he is not experienced with good gear or computers, and hasn't actually gigged much, and has never recorded in a pro environment, BUT know from the moment he switches helix on that the presets sound like lollipop. "I think I should send this back cos it sounds so unusable" This guy thinks he needs 200 amps and is frustrated at only having wah, compressors, delays, phasers, choruses, filters, leslies, drives, fuzzes, flangers, reverbs pitches shifitng, harmony, and synths. In fact it is really annoying that Helix keeps running out of processor power! One day he might get laid. and yes if the shoe fits!

interesting how quickly we forget. Most 4 x 12" cabs have a narrow dispersion - narrower than a typical 90 degree horn. Most guitarists didn't seem to care...and of course they played too loud as well meaning 20% of the audience got deafened by guitar and the others just got mush. Even in a full mic up too!

while there are debates there is no way the tuner is that bad. You should check that the tuner is not off set from concert. I don't believe that you can hear the sort of differences that some people are commenting on using test gear etc.

so where would you put your amp if it wasn't a helix rig?

ha! Actually if I could be stuffed with the effort I would downvote 99% of the ideas... :lol: not because I dont have imagination, but because Id rather put my imagination into the notes and phrasing (which the audiences will notice) and not minuscule micro-tonal differences which they will not. just saying! :)

its important to remember that you are hearing the "dry" tone that an engineer might hear when micing the cab - be it live or in the studio. Most engineers will cut the lows on a guitar channel. Likewise with the highs - is the sound of mic X on Cab Y actually the sound that the engineer would end up with in the mix? The Tone from the Helix (Amp and cab) might be very accurate as to what the engineer would hear on first bringing the channel up but maybe not what it might sound like after a bit of EQ! I think the trend of softer sounding ribbon mics on guitar is an indication of this.

I cant see how a smaller knob is a good thing...(did I just say that?) For the sake of those keeping score - I have never yet had the joystick turn accidentally. Seems to me you would have to be holding it with thumb and finger to do that? I only use one finger to move sideways...