How to Setup Firehawk with 4 cable Method

[Bluesman27]

Other posts and Google fully explain how to hook the Firehawk up using the 4 cable method.   What I could use now is an explanation of how to set things up.    Do I insert the FX LOOP block in the location so that blocks before it are sent to the guitar in of the amp and the blocks after it are sent to the power amp?   In other words, the location of the FX LOOP defines what goes to the full amp and what goes to only the power amp?    And how do I use the AMP/CAB black?   Do I need to put this after the FX LOOP block but before the effects that go to the power amp?   Do I need an AMP/CAB block at all?    HELP.   I hope someone can explain this.

[stevekc]

Same concepts apply to Firehawk FX 

 

[Bluesman27]

Well that is helpful, thank you, but really did not answer my questions which are:

1)   Do the effects to the left of the FX LOOP block get sent to the input of the amp and effects to the right of the FX LOOP get sent to the power amp?  

2)   Do I need to add an AMP/CAB to the right of the FX LOOP for the effects on the right side to sound right?   

[mcbeddall]

1) yes you understand that correctly

2) normally 4 cable method is intended to let you hear the sound of the actual physical amp your using so you would turn any simulated amps and cabs off

Obviously there's no harm in experimenting but your delays and reverbs should sound good using just your physical amp

[Bluesman27]

I am an electrical engineer, but I can't seem to understand the full workings of the 4CM.    I get the cable connections and signal routing.  Here are some questions that i don't understand.

1)     The FX Loop can get assigned to a button.   Does shutting OFF the FX Loop essentially bypass the Send/Return?   In other words, the guitar signal would go to the IN of the Firehawk, get the full effects in that patch chain and then go out the OUTPUT to the Amps power amp section.   Is that correct?

2)      How would I use the 4CM  and be able to use either the amps Pre-amp OR the Firehawk modeled pre-amps in a single patch?    It appears that this is not possible.   True?    

3)    The fx loop MIX..... I understand that 100% means that ALL of the signal goes out the SEND.   Does 50% then mean that the SEND gets a mix of dry signal AND signal with effects?    

 

Who knew that guitar playing was so complicated?

[stevekc]

 

 

Who knew that guitar playing was so complicated?

it is when the documentation is vague -without an actual  hardware block diagram

[Jacksc5]

The whole set up confuses the sh!t out of me. I used a G System the other day which I've been told is complicated. I actually found the G System easier to understand and set up for 4cm than the firehawk.

 

What should the mix be set at to use amps pre amp?

[urbanspaceblast]

I did a block diagram to get my head around the 4CM when I got the Firehawk.

 

The key is to think of the Firehawk as the centre piece and effects are added into it's loop. This is opposed to the usual chain of adding effects pedals into the amp loop.

 

The preamp can be thought of as an effect pedal, and the power amp section is the final increase.

 

HTH.

 

 

As I'm a bit thick I have colour coded my cables to match the diagram. LOL.

 

 

 

[mcbeddall]

Very clearly explained bravo! Really like the colour coded cables and stickers

[Perrin1710]

Very helpful Urbanspaceblast. Question you might be able to help me out with: what if I want to use two amps? The device is stereo enabled, but trying the ipad software I can't find a way in which to split the signal into two chains.

For instance, I would like to enter two different delay settings to the effect loops of my two amps. Would that work?

[urbanspaceblast]

Thanks. Sorry mate I've not looked into that. The HD500x supports that but I can't see how to achieve it with the Firehawk..

[mcbeddall]

Yeah it won't do two separate mono paths, that's how the hd 500 does it

[SA66]

and what position are the switches etc amp/line and stomp/line

[solsurfr3]

sorry for digging up an old thread....  i'm slowly wrapping my head around this.  After reading this, here's my assumptions. Please confirm or correct the below assumptions:

 

With the 4CM, I can achieve this:

 

• Run distortion-type, pre-amp traditional effects in front of the amp (Using amp's clean tone, then stomping "green" button to add overdrive, for example)
• Run time-based effects in post using the 4CM as we would in a traditional setup with time-based effects.

Taking this assumption:

• I can assign one patch to run traditional overdrive/distortion effects in front of the power amp AND add time-based effects in post using the effects loop - 1 patch, 1 channel?

Did I get this right? Thanks-

[mcbeddall]

Yeah that's right, don't forget to disable the amp and cab in the firehawk as you'll be using just the effects from the firehawk,

The fx loop can take a bit of setting up with the levels and stuff but I don't run that set up so I can't be of much use I'm afraid

[rdw1963]

How do you turn off the amp, I see how to turn off the cabinet but not the amp.

[mslattery]

I set up a patch with the fx loop enabled (and amp/cab disabled) so as to run my guitar through the Firehawk and into in my Marshall DSL40C using the 4CM as described above.  My hope was to use the firehawk in this scenario just like a pedalboard to get the full effects of the amps gain and distortion.  The issue I seem to be having is that when using the 4CM with this patch my amps gain and volume knobs seem to be disabled.  I did notice the back of the Marshall amp has an on/off button for it's fx loop.  Turning the amps fx loop button off restored the gain and volume knobs but seems to have defeated the original purpose I was going for.  I'm also not clear on how all of the firehawks buttons should be set - line vs stomp and output mode of line or amp.  Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

[suedehead99]

How do you turn off the amp, I see how to turn off the cabinet but not the amp.

 

Select 'no amp' on the list of amps. I think it's in the Clean Amps section.

[Perrin1710]

OK, so getting my 4 cable method going using the correct connections from mono/left and applying the FX patch in the right part of the signal chain I end up with a very nice sounding amp and effects. Great! 

But now I want to use two amps. So, I tried the 7 cable method with my little Hotone amp. I thought this might be very sweet with stereo delay.

 

Using the right channel cabling something really weird happens: The pre-amp section of my Hotone starts getting into the signal path, effecting my left channel (adding a bunch of gain). In fact, the volume of my Hotone now starts to govern my Marshall on the left signal path. Detaching the Send Right/Hotone Input cable allows me to just add the effects to the Hotone, but then I can't use the volume of the little amp to increase.

 

Am I missing something here? Is it at all possible to use a 7 cable method?

[zn8ke]

When using the 4CM I don't get the sound from my original amp (which in my case is a Line6 vetta II combo) Only from the FH. When I turn the FX Loop off on the Firehawk there is no sound at all from the amp. Why could that be? Surely if I tunr FX Loop off on the FH then I should be hearing the sound of the Vetta by itself right?

Furthermore no matter where I place the FX Loop I do not here the playback music (that you play through the FH and can jam to).

 

There must be something wrong with my setup but I cannot for my life figure out what. 

[Alltifisk]

When using the 4CM I don't get the sound from my original amp (which in my case is a Line6 vetta II combo) Only from the FH. When I turn the FX Loop off on the Firehawk there is no sound at all from the amp. Why could that be? Surely if I tunr FX Loop off on the FH then I should be hearing the sound of the Vetta by itself right?

Furthermore no matter where I place the FX Loop I do not here the playback music (that you play through the FH and can jam to).

 

There must be something wrong with my setup but I cannot for my life figure out what. 

 

Have you turned the loop "ON" on the Vetta? I thinkt there's such a switch/knob for it zn8ke

[zn8ke]

Have you turned the loop "ON" on the Vetta? I thinkt there's such a switch/knob for it zn8ke

 

 

 

I'm ashamed to say NO :blink:  :blink:  :blink: How in h.... could I miss that? jeez what an easy answer haha.... It's been bugging me for weeks

 

thank you very much ;)

[JamieCrain]

Perrin1710,

Yes absolutely. Remember one thing: the output from the FH amp block is *always* mono.

 

If you want stereo effects, these need to come after the amp in your signal chain. This includes the FX loop.

 

Any effects placed before the amp will be condensed into mono and run two identical signals to left and right if you are using two amps.

[Snarky]

Workaround for Line6 Firehawk FX 4-cable method, choosing the right settings

When using 4-cable method (4cm) with your Firehawk FX (FH), you should adjust the FH properly to your amp. Unfortunately the manual say nothing about it. May be I can help - here´s how I did it:

First connect your Amp and Firehawk FX like this:
Guitar to FH Guitar in
FH Loop send to amp in
FH Loop return to amp loop send
FH Output to amp loop return

If you want to run two real amps, do the same with the FH right cannels.

Finally you made it to put your real amp(s) into the FX-Loop of the Firehawk. And now - IMPORTANT:

Set FH Loop-Mode to „Stomp“ (this is because the FH „pedals“ run into your amp input (Drives etc.) or in your amps loop (delay, reverb)

Set FH Output-Mode to „Line“ (this is because the FH-amp models run directly into your real amp´s poweramp)

In the iPad-App, place the FH-Loop BEHIND the Amp, in front of „Delay“ and „Reverb“!

Set the MIX of the FH Loop to 100%, leave the send/return at „0 db“ - This is the only way you ´ll hear 100% of the sound of your real amp, because taking the mix down means taking the preamp of your real amp out of the signal, because it´s in the FH-Loop! This is the point most users are struggling with I think. Even in some youtube-videos this is taught wrong.

1. To hear your real amp, choose „No Amp“ and „No Cab“ in the FH-software, put amp volume to 100% (FH-effect-pedals will now be used in front of your real amp (Distortion/Dynamics/Modulation) or in the loop of your real amp (Delay, Reverb) - as it´s supposed to be.

2. To hear FH-modeled amps, turn off the FH-Loop, choose your FH-amp-model and turn Cab-Sim off (or on if you want to record via USB).

Now you can create „pure effect patches“ without ampsim for your real amp running 4cm, or FH-amp-modeled patches running directly into your real amp´s poweramp. Because you chose FH-loop on or off inside the patches, you can change the banks on the fly without any issues - just adjust the master-volume of the FH if necessary.

If your real amps Loop is serial, you´re ready to go with this setup. If your real amp runs a parallel loop, you´ ll have to adjust the mix on your amps loop and /or the db in the FH´s loop mix.

I use my FH in 4cm combination with the BOSS KATANA Head and it´ s pure fun! The only little issue I have noticed is, that the FH FX takes a very little of the KATANAS natural high-frequency sparkle, but really very very little - a high-end-sound-luxury-problem for sure…

You can even place additional real pedals inside the loop or in front of the FH - try what sounds better.
 

[pipistrello666]

On 2/4/2018 at 1:34 AM, Snarky said:

Workaround for Line6 Firehawk FX 4-cable method, choosing the right settings

When using 4-cable method (4cm) with your Firehawk FX (FH), you should adjust the FH properly to your amp. Unfortunately the manual say nothing about it. May be I can help - here´s how I did it:

First connect your Amp and Firehawk FX like this:
Guitar to FH Guitar in
FH Loop send to amp in
FH Loop return to amp loop send
FH Output to amp loop return

If you want to run two real amps, do the same with the FH right cannels.

Finally you made it to put your real amp(s) into the FX-Loop of the Firehawk. And now - IMPORTANT:

Set FH Loop-Mode to „Stomp“ (this is because the FH „pedals“ run into your amp input (Drives etc.) or in your amps loop (delay, reverb)

Set FH Output-Mode to „Line“ (this is because the FH-amp models run directly into your real amp´s poweramp)

In the iPad-App, place the FH-Loop BEHIND the Amp, in front of „Delay“ and „Reverb“!

Set the MIX of the FH Loop to 100%, leave the send/return at „0 db“ - This is the only way you ´ll hear 100% of the sound of your real amp, because taking the mix down means taking the preamp of your real amp out of the signal, because it´s in the FH-Loop! This is the point most users are struggling with I think. Even in some youtube-videos this is taught wrong.

1. To hear your real amp, choose „No Amp“ and „No Cab“ in the FH-software, put amp volume to 100% (FH-effect-pedals will now be used in front of your real amp (Distortion/Dynamics/Modulation) or in the loop of your real amp (Delay, Reverb) - as it´s supposed to be.

2. To hear FH-modeled amps, turn off the FH-Loop, choose your FH-amp-model and turn Cab-Sim off (or on if you want to record via USB).

Now you can create „p
You can even place additional real pedals inside the loop or in front of the FH - try what sounds better.
 

Hi I have followed the steps from your post and all was well when using my FH 4cm with my old amp (Laney GH100L) now I am trying to make it work with my new amp (Jet city 100HDM) this amp has a Line level loop and apparently this is the problem, as the Send-Return Line/stomp on the FH affects both send and return if I run the cable from the Send (in stomp mode) to the input of the amp I have a really dull sound almost not audible, if I switch to Line there is no sound whatsoever, what could I do to make it work? Would turning down the send level from the app (while in Line mode) make any difference? I can't test now as I have my amp in the practice studio, or maybe an attenuator between the send and amp input to lower down from Line level to instrument but leaving the Return set as Line might make a difference?