Path A/B

[hideout]

I've gone back to the manual many times now and it has been zero help at letting me setup a footswitch to switch between Path A or Path B. Is this even possible?

If it is, then the manual is CRAP!

[silverhead]

Take a look at a couple of presets in the factory Templates setlist. The setup is evident in the preset name(s).

[hideout]

I did but maybe I'm missing something 'cause there were none that had a foot switch assigned for performing the a/b switching that I could see. Do you happen to know the patch name and number?

 

I still stand by my statement that the manual is crap. This should be clearly explained procedurally but I think good old fashioned "good enough" methodology took hold.

[phil_m]

The thing is there are multiple ways to accomplish this and many other things in the Helix. I think the manual is attempting to get you understand the methodology, not just give step by step instructions for a bunch of different procedures. But the manual does actually give an example of one way to do what you're talking about on page 36.
 

 

To smoothly blend between the tone on parallel paths A and B, select a Split > A/B block and assign the Route To parameter to an expression pedal. By default, a heel-down position means the signal passes fully through Path A. Moving the pedal toward the toe-down position will gradually crossfade into Path B. Alternatively, assign a footswitch to control the Route To parameter, for instantly switching back and forth.

 

You could easily assign that functionality to a footswitch if you wanted. Another way to switch paths is to assign the level parameter of the output block to a footswitch and have them toggle opposite of one another.

[hideout]

Thanks I'll give it a shot tonight. I've messed around with that A/B split but have had zero luck so far.

[klangmaler]

...sometimes step-by-step instructions are preferable...

Maybe someone does a tutorial (video) for this?

[silverhead]

..... Do you happen to know the patch name and number?

 

 

On my Helix Rack (fw v1.06.5) It is patch 2C in the Templates setlist. The preset name is TwoTones A-B. There is a scribble strip on one footswitch that reads Tone A - Tone B. That FS toggles the signal between Path A and Path B.

 

In terms of the mechanics it uses the Y-Split block that appears in Path 1 immediately after the Vol block. Selecting that block you will see that it has two parameter values that allow you to blend the signal strength directed to each of Paths A and B. This parameter is assigned to the FS with a min value of Path A = 100 and a max value of Path B = 100. Pressing the FS toggles between min and max values.

[silverhead]

...sometimes step-by-step instructions are preferable...

Maybe someone does a tutorial (video) for this?

As Phil said, there is often more than one way to do things. And there are very many things you can do. I guess it's possible to provide step-by-step instructions and videos for all procedures covering all possible specific setups - but it's an exhaustive undertaking. I think the way the manual treats thing is more practical, providing overall methodologies as well as a few specific examples and also template presets for more complex setups.

[klangmaler]

As Phil said, there is often more than one way to do things. And there are very many things you can do. I guess it's possible to provide step-by-step instructions and videos for all procedures covering all possible specific setups - but it's an exhaustive undertaking. I think the way the manual treats thing is more practical, providing overall methodologies as well as a few specific examples and also template presets for more complex setups.

Nobody wants that kind of explanation for all procedures...

But there are enough reasons to expand the L6 manual (wasn't that polite?) ;)

[Digital_Igloo]

Nobody wants that kind of explanation for all procedures...

But there are enough reasons to expand the L6 manual (wasn't that polite?) ;)

 

Maybe, but literally 95% of the how-to questions posed in this forum can already be answered by spending five minutes in the manual—the rest could be answered by an exhaustive, 10,000-page doctoral thesis on every possible routing scenario, but I have more important things to do.

 

If there are specific areas or use cases where more robust explanation is appropriate, we're not above providing blogs, knowledge base articles, or videos for those willing to dig a bit deeper. The problem with Owner's Manuals is that the more pages you add, the less likely your average user will read a single page of it. This is why your Apple iPhone's manual is four pages long (but an exhaustive, wax-poetic-on-absolutely-everything iPhone manual would literally be encyclopedic).

 

We even include a real paper Cheat Sheet that covers ~80% of what one would need to get started, but few people bother reading that either.

[phil_m]

The problem with Owner's Manuals is that the more pages you add, the less likely your average user will read any of it.

 

Ain't that the truth... I have this little sequencer, an Arturia Beatstep Pro, to be exact, and its manual is literally 91 pages long. Nothing in its operation is really all that difficult, but the manual makes it seem impossible. Long manuals are a product of poor design, really. I'm of the firm belief that the operation of these electronic gadgets we use should mostly be self-evident. People don't want to use manuals, and most people don't learn from reading a manual. They learn from doing whatever it is they want to do by figuring it out themselves or watching someone do it. Reading a manual is kind of a last resort.

 

In other words...

[HonestOpinion]

There is no doubt that the better designed the interface, the less trips to the manual are required and the Helix is particularly well designed in that respect. I still think a well written (and well indexed) manual is a beautiful thing; particularly for more complex operations! The length of the manual should be contingent on the complexity of the device. Different people learn differently, some folks are a whiz with hardware, they are the ones who could disassemble the family VCR at the age of six (and put it back together); they may never look at a manual. Other people are greatly assisted by seeing pictures, others by text. A well written moderated WIKI is a great way for users to build on, contribute to, and enhance the manual provided by the company. I would love to see a Helix WIKI that consolidates all the great explanations, procedures, tips, and tidbits that have been provided on this forum and The Gear Page.  A WIKI allows the users to build a much better manual over time than any company would dedicate the resources to. There is great stuff here but it is so spread out and ages off the screen such that the same questions get asked multiple times and great tips get lost in the sands of time.

[silverhead]

Nobody wants that kind of explanation for all procedures...

But there are enough reasons to expand the L6 manual (wasn't that polite?) ;)

Yes, that was very polite. :P

 

So, not all procedures. Who gets to decide which ones? Presumably all the ones that you might someday want, and perhaps some for others too, whatever they might be.....

 

Hopefully that was also polite...... ;)

[klangmaler]

Ok then - a(nother) discussion about manuals...

First of all - I hate them.

But sometimes you need clear (basic) information (although the unit is quite 'self-explaining').

The helix manual works for me - insofar.

BUT:

Sometimes 'the devil is in the details'. Sometimes people simply ask for a hint.

And this is a forum, right? So users can help others!

Best example: The wonderful

http://helixhelp.com/pmwiki.php pages.

Asking for something doesn't always mean complaining ;)

 

(What really bothers me: Every little sh.. apparantly needs an entry in the ideascale nowadays...)

[bobthedog]

A simple solution is to have a section in the manual explaining each of the Template presets.

 

I also agree, the manual is pretty poor and I'm a fairly technical sort of guy!

[hideout]

Maybe, but literally 95% of the how-to questions posed in this forum can already be answered by spending five minutes in the manual—the rest could be answered by an exhaustive, 10,000-page doctoral thesis on every possible routing scenario, but I have more important things to do.

 

If there are specific areas or use cases where more robust explanation is appropriate, we're not above providing blogs, knowledge base articles, or videos for those willing to dig a bit deeper. The problem with Owner's Manuals is that the more pages you add, the less likely your average user will read any of it. This is why your Apple iPhone's manual is four pages long (but an exhaustive, wax-poetic-on-absolutely-everything iPhone manual would literally be encyclopedic).

 

We even include a real paper Cheat Sheet that covers ~80% of what one would need to get started, but few people bother reading that either.

 

When I look at this - 

 

 

 

To smoothly blend between the tone on parallel paths A and B, select a Split > A/B block and assign the Route To parameter to an expression pedal. By default, a heel-down position means the signal passes fully through Path A. Moving the pedal toward the toe-down position will gradually crossfade into Path B. Alternatively, assign a footswitch to control the Route To parameter, for instantly switching back and forth.

 

How are you supposed to know how you "assign a Route To Parameter to an expression pedal".  Are just supposed to "know"? You guys now the conventions of the Helix because you've been working on it for 4 years.  The rest of us are coming in with no knowledge of those conventions.  They may be obvious to you, but how about someone who's new to the Helix? A short, simple procedural "how to"would go a long way to help users understand.

[hideout]

A simple solution is to have a section in the manual explaining each of the Template presets.

 

I also agree, the manual is pretty poor and I'm a fairly technical sort of guy!

 

Thanks and... EXACTLY!!

[hideout]

Ain't that the truth... I have this little sequencer, an Arturia Beatstep Pro, to be exact, and its manual is literally 91 pages long. Nothing in its operation is really all that difficult, but the manual makes it seem impossible. Long manuals are a product of poor design, really. I'm of the firm belief that the operation of these electronic gadgets we use should mostly be self-evident. People don't want to use manuals, and most people don't learn from reading a manual. They learn from doing whatever it is they want to do by figuring it out themselves or watching someone do it. Reading a manual is kind of a last resort.

 

In other words...

 

As well as the Helix's interface is designed, absolutely NOT everything in it is "self-evident".  

 

I think that things like the Split and A/B points and mixers should appear in the blocks list, for one.

[phil_m]

When I look at this - 

 

How are you supposed to know how you "assign a Route To Parameter to an expression pedal".  Are just supposed to "know"? You guys now the conventions of the Helix because you've been working on it for 4 years.  The rest of us are coming in with no knowledge of those conventions.  They may be obvious to you, but how about someone who's new to the Helix? A short, simple procedural "how to"would go a long way to help users understand.

 

Again, I'm not a Line 6 employee. I was a beta tester for Helix, so I've had mine since last April. And, honestly, I didn't have any manual for the first three weeks or so that I had it. Line 6 just sent it to me and kind of said "figure it out". There were no factory presets or templates on my unit either. I'd say I was able to figure 85% or more on my own just by hitting button and looking at the different menus. The things that I didn't figure out were some of the shortcuts (like holding down the knob for the parameter you want to assign a controller to).

 

As far as how would someone know how to figure out how to assign a parameter to an expression pedal or footswitch, that's covered earlier in the manual (page 34 to be exact).

[hideout]

Again, I'm not a Line 6 employee. I was a beta tester for Helix, so I've had mine since last April. And, honestly, I didn't have any manual for the first three weeks or so that I had it. Line 6 just sent it to me and kind of said "figure it out". There were no factory presets or templates on my unit either. I'd say I was able to figure 85% or more on my own just by hitting button and looking at the different menus. The things that I didn't figure out were some of the shortcuts (like holding down the knob for the parameter you want to assign a controller to).

 

As far as how would someone know how to figure out how to assign a parameter to an expression pedal or footswitch, that's covered earlier in the manual (page 34 to be exact).

 

Maybe I was tired but I could not get to that parameter last night.

[HonestOpinion]

...

And this is a forum, right? So users can help others!

Best example: The wonderful

http://helixhelp.com/pmwiki.php pages.

Asking for something doesn't always mean complaining ;)

 

(What really bothers me: Every little sh.. apparantly needs an entry in the ideascale nowadays...)

 

This is a great example of users adding value to the documentation and perhaps this could eventually be the perfect place to host a full blown user moderated WIKI to consolidate all user provided Helix documentation and tips (depending on this site's creator's willingness to devote the time and effort required). In any case, I hope we will see a user WIKI for the Helix at some point like the one that was created for the AxeFX.

[Digital_Igloo]

How are you supposed to know how you "assign a Route To Parameter to an expression pedal". Are just supposed to "know"? You guys now the conventions of the Helix because you've been working on it for 4 years.  The rest of us are coming in with no knowledge of those conventions. They may be obvious to you, but how about someone who's new to the Helix? A short, simple procedural "how to"would go a long way to help users understand.

 

That's a fair question, I suppose. Unfortunately, with any product of Helix's depth, there'll be an insane amount of redundant steps when attempting to accomplish anything. For example, we have an entire column devoted to selecting a block. 100% clarity would dictate that every procedure requiring selecting a block (which is probably the majority of 'em) unnecessarily duplicates this column, plus the steps to turn Helix's power on, plus the steps to hook up everything. The manual would be over 9,000 pages long and even more people would refuse to read a single page of it.

 

Correct—a user can't just pop onto any ol' page in the manual and expect every step to be laid out in detail. It assumes you've at least read the Cheat Sheet in its entirety, and ideally, the Quick Start section. In fact, the Welcome to Helix intro straight up tells the user to do both:

 

What Have I Gotten Myself Into?

Although Helix may appear complicated at rst glance, it's designed in such a way that once you learn a few basic concepts and shortcuts, you'll be able to construct both simple and complex tones at nearly the speed of thought, with very little menu diving required.

 

Although you’re likely anxious to rip open the plastic and plug in, wait! At the very least, check out the big color Helix Cheat Sheet that came in the box, and keep it handy. Then read the "Quick Start" chapter of this manual and we’ll have you up and shredding in no time.

[hideout]

Yes. For the the most part, the Helix is quite intuitive. So much so that really, I have not felt the need for the cheat sheet. However, there are some features that are not immediately obvious and I still feel that they are not explained well in the manual. I'm not sure if it's the grammar or wording in the manual but there's something in the way it's written that makes some of the decidedly unclear aspects of the Helix remain mysterious.

I realize that not everyone likes to read manuals but that's what the Table of Contents is for. Even in the thickest most explicitly descriptive manuals, I can find specific things in the Table of Contents without having to read the entire thing. And if it's well written, I can learn to do the things I need to do. And just because Apple has sort of gotten away with not having manuals with their devices, doesn't mean that there aren't folks who are completely flummoxed by that device. IPhones are only intuitive to a certain point. The rest of it, Apple wants you to play with it and discover what you can in fact do. BUT... The Helix is no iPhone and some of us would just like to get the thing ready for the gig on the weekend! We don't have a lot of time to play with it or dig deep. The implementation of the splits, A/B or otherwise is FAR from intuitive. Those things are used alongside the amp and effects blocks yet... It's not included in the block list and will only appear IF you move an effect block down to another path! Intuitive? NOT! Ridiculous, I say. The whole thing would be a lot easier if the splits appeared in the effects block list. You should also be able to create a new path along side an existing one without having to move an effects block because you might want that effects chain the way it is!

[klangmaler]

[...] The Helix is no iPhone and some of us would just like to get the thing ready for the gig on the weekend! We don't have a lot of time to play with it or dig deep. [...]

 

You're right. I tried to call my bandmate with the helix, but I couldn't find the phone block.

And I'm still searching for the SMS block, too ;)

 

As with any hightech tool, there are different approaches. So, if somebody doesn't want 'to learn helix', then maybe others can help him (here), because they already checked that specific thing out?

[hideout]

As with any hightech tool, there are different approaches. So, if somebody doesn't want 'to learn helix', then maybe others can help him (here), because they already checked that specific thing out?

Hang on now. I never said I didn't want to learn it. In fact, I do! But it's frustrating because of the inconsistencies in the UI design. I just don't believe that the things that feel hidden in its procedures need to be that way. I see it as a blemish in my whole perception of the thing because I love how it sounds... And that's saying something because I've truly loathed the sound of the Pods for so long. Sonically, the Helix is in a league of its own, imho.

[silverhead]

...... I just don't believe that the things that feel hidden in its procedures need to be that way. ...

I can understand your frustration, but that's just the way the documentation is right now. You're doing all you can do to get things more to your liking (posting here and in Ideascale) and that's good. Meantime, until and unless things change, please continue to come here and ask any detailed questions that you might have.

[hideout]

I can understand your frustration, but that's just the way the documentation is right now. You're doing all you can do to get things more to your liking (posting here and in Ideascale) and that's good. Meantime, until and unless things change, please continue to come here and ask any detailed questions that you might have.

Thanks, Silverhead.

[phil_m]

Hang on now. I never said I didn't want to learn it. In fact, I do! But it's frustrating because of the inconsistencies in the UI design. I just don't believe that the things that feel hidden in its procedures need to be that way. I see it as a blemish in my whole perception of the thing because I love how it sounds... And that's saying something because I've truly loathed the sound of the Pods for so long. Sonically, the Helix is in a league of its own, imho.

 

You act as if these things are even covered in the manual, though... They are. It would be one thing if these were truly hidden functions, but I've yet to see anything brought up here that's not covered somewhere in the manual. I actually think it's very easy to find something in the manual. I'm usually writing from my work computer, and when I open the PDF up here in Acrobat (I think the free Reader allows this, too), the bookmarks on the left hand side of the screen have all the headings for everything. It's very easy to see the bookmark for the topic I'm looking for and go right to it. I can usually find what I want in less than 30 seconds.

 

It's impossible for one writing style to please everyone, I guess, and everyone learns differently. But I still maintain that the Helix is largely intuitive. As I said, I was able to figure out most things on my own, and I don't consider myself smarter than most users or anything like that. It's funny that Apple was brought up earlier. I was going to mention that same thing. I think Apple has always taken the stance that users will figure it out. They do publish instruction online and stuff, but people look at those as a last resort.

[duncann]

To put things in perspective about Helix being intuitive or not, try downloading the manual for another product that's comparable, or maybe even not comparable,  and just quickly read through it. Have an objective in mind for what you want to accomplish on Helix and then imagine the steps you'd have to take on the other device, absent a computer editor.

 

There also might be an expectation that because Helix does so much, has so many options, that in order to accomplish some things, it will naturally be complicated, and the more simple way of doing something might be easily overlooked.

[hideout]

You act as if these things are even covered in the manual, though... They are. It would be one thing if these were truly hidden functions, but I've yet to see anything brought up here that's not covered somewhere in the manual. I actually think it's very easy to find something in the manual. I'm usually writing from my work computer, and when I open the PDF up here in Acrobat (I think the free Reader allows this, too), the bookmarks on the left hand side of the screen have all the headings for everything. It's very easy to see the bookmark for the topic I'm looking for and go right to it. I can usually find what I want in less than 30 seconds.

 

It's impossible for one writing style to please everyone, I guess, and everyone learns differently. But I still maintain that the Helix is largely intuitive. As I said, I was able to figure out most things on my own, and I don't consider myself smarter than most users or anything like that. It's funny that Apple was brought up earlier. I was going to mention that same thing. I think Apple has always taken the stance that users will figure it out. They do publish instruction online and stuff, but people look at those as a last resort.

 

It's the way they cover it in the manual that I have issue with so yes, I do not like the way things are represented.  Yeah, I eventually figured it out but throughout the entire process, all I could think of was that there absolutely is a better way to explain this and a better way to represent it in the UI.  I don't disagree that the Helix is largely intuitive... largely. But come on, let's at least admit that there are issues.  This whole thing is a matter of having the time to explore the thing. I don't have a whole lot of time to spare and am usually pretty mentally tired when I get home. I'm thrilled that I was able to create the 7 patches of sounds that I use all the time in about 2 hours.  That's astounding!!! Still, there will always be things that need improvement. I still think that the splits should be included in the effects block list.

 

That said, answer me this. Is there a way to create an A/B split between paths 1 & 2?

[phil_m]

That said, answer me this. Is there a way to create an A/B split between paths 1 & 2?

 

Yes, effectively there is, but what is it you want to do?

[hideout]

Yes, effectively there is, but what is it you want to do?

 I want to be able to use a footswitch to switch between the two.

[phil_m]

 I want to be able to use a footswitch to switch between the two.

 

If you want to do it and maintain delay/reverb trails, a neat way to do it is to assign a footswitch to control the Channel Volume paremeter in the amp block in each path (assuming you have an amp in each path). Set it so the volume goes to the set max when you press the footswitch for one amp and goes to zero for the other, and vice versa. You could also do a similar thing with a volume pedal block in each path. The other method is to assign the level parameter in the output block of each path to a footswitch. With this, way, though, you won't have any spillover when switching paths.

[Digital_Igloo]

I still think that the splits should be included in the effects block list.

 

I don't. It might be more intuitive, but it's WAY slower in practice. Making a feature easier-to-discover is only an advantage before you discover it; after that, it just slows people down. Believe me, we tested Helix's UI/UX exhaustively. Like... years. I don't have time to explain every UI decision, but trust me when I say there's a reason for *everything,* even if it's not yet obvious.

 

That said, answer me this. Is there a way to create an A/B split between paths 1 & 2?

 

Page 15 in the Quick Start section (emphasis mine):

 

Choosing an Output

1. Move the joystick to select an Output block and turn the joystick.

Normally you should select “Multi,†which includes four simultaneous pairs of outputs: 1/4", XLR, Digital, and USB 1/2.

If Path 1 doesn't have enough block locations or DSP to accommodate your tone, it can be routed to Path 2:

2. Select Path 1’s output block and turn the joystick to select Path 2A.

Path 2’s Input block displays an arrow, indicating it is being fed by Path 1.

If Path 2 has two input blocks, you may select either Path 2A or 2B, or even split your signal further to both 2A and 2B. See "2 into 1" for an example. 

[hideout]

 

Page 15 in the Quick Start section (emphasis mine):

 

Choosing an Output

1. Move the joystick to select an Output block and turn the joystick.

Normally you should select “Multi,†which includes four simultaneous pairs of outputs: 1/4", XLR, Digital, and USB 1/2.

If Path 1 doesn't have enough block locations or DSP to accommodate your tone, it can be routed to Path 2:

2. Select Path 1’s output block and turn the joystick to select Path 2A.

Path 2’s Input block displays an arrow, indicating it is being fed by Path 1.

If Path 2 has two input blocks, you may select either Path 2A or 2B, or even split your signal further to both 2A and 2B. See "2 into 1" for an example. 

 

 

My apologies. I should have been clearer.  I'd like to be able to route the incoming guitar signal to either Path 1 or Path 2 via foot switch.

[phil_m]

My apologies. I should have been clearer.  I'd like to be able to route the incoming guitar signal to either Path 1 or Path 2 via foot switch.

 

The methods I gave above effectively do that. Technically, I suppose you aren't really routing the guitar signal to either path - it always goes to both. But the end result is the same. You're turning each path on or off.

[hideout]

 

 

I don't. It might be more intuitive, but it's WAY slower in practice. Making a feature easier-to-discover is only an advantage before you discover it; after that, it just slows people down. Believe me, we tested Helix's UI/UX exhaustively. Like... years. I don't have time to explain every UI decision, but trust me when I say there's a reason for *everything,* even if it's not yet obvious.

 

 

Page 15 in the Quick Start section (emphasis mine):

 

Choosing an Output

1. Move the joystick to select an Output block and turn the joystick.

Normally you should select “Multi,†which includes four simultaneous pairs of outputs: 1/4", XLR, Digital, and USB 1/2.

If Path 1 doesn't have enough block locations or DSP to accommodate your tone, it can be routed to Path 2:

2. Select Path 1’s output block and turn the joystick to select Path 2A.

Path 2’s Input block displays an arrow, indicating it is being fed by Path 1.

If Path 2 has two input blocks, you may select either Path 2A or 2B, or even split your signal further to both 2A and 2B. See "2 into 1" for an example. 

 

 

I'm sorry.  I must be completely stupid and/or this is some kind new logic (kinda like new math) but this and how it relates to using a footswitch to switch between Path 1 and Path 2 makes no sense to me.  All I see is talk about the paths and their outputs. Please explain to this complete idiot where in this quote does it explain how you tell the footswitch to mute the signal of one path and not the other and vice versa. It's unbelievable to me that you guys actually think this makes sense.

[silverhead]

.... Please explain to this complete idiot where in this quote does it explain how you tell the footswitch to mute the signal of one path and not the other and vice versa....

Are you having trouble doing what you want to do, or are you just pointing out (again) that you don't like the documentation? We get it, and as I suggested earlier you are doing what you can (I hope) via Ideascale to get that improved. Meanwhile, the documentation is what it is. You don't like it. You've made that clear. Repeating it here endlessly is no longer productive.

 

Are you having a technical issue that we can help you with?

[phil_m]

I'm sorry.  I must be completely stupid and/or this is some kind new logic (kinda like new math) but this and how it relates to using a footswitch to switch between Path 1 and Path 2 makes no sense to me.  All I see is talk about the paths and their outputs. Please explain to this complete idiot where in this quote does it explain how you tell the footswitch to mute the signal of one path and not the other and vice versa. It's unbelievable to me that you guys actually think this makes sense.

 

I think DI might have interpreted your initial question differently. Seems like he thought you were asking how to split path 1 into two paths via splitting path 2 into 2A and 2B. Indeed, if you wanted to have some common effects before you split paths, that would be one to go about it.

 

Did you have any luck with any of methods I mentioned above?

[hideout]

Are you having trouble doing what you want to do, or are you just pointing out (again) that you don't like the documentation? We get it, and as I suggested earlier you are doing what you can (I hope) via Ideascale to get that improved. Meanwhile, the documentation is what it is. You don't like it. You've made that clear. Repeating it here endlessly is no longer productive.

 

Are you having a technical issue that we can help you with?

.

 

Well, no. Mostly it's that I don't get DI's explanation.