High frequency noise with G10

[tochiro]

Hi,

 

I have a Martin HD28 acoustic guitar with a Dtar Wavelength pickup. Until recently I used a cable to plug my guitar to the DI box. I bought a Line6 G10 wireless system and I plugged it on my Martin.

The problem is that there's now a high frequency noise that's added to the audio of the guitar in the PA. I tried the same wireless system with my Telecaster and there's no noise. I also tried it with a friend's acoustic guitar fitted with the Dtar Wavelength pickup and there's no noise... The only difference between my Wavelength and my friend's Wavelength is that it has a Volume and Tone whereas I have none.

What do you think could cause such a noise. Thank you for your help.

Cheers

[DarrellM5]

I wonder if both Dtar systems are wired the same to the output jacks.  Line 6 might have an idea but, if it were me, I'd definitely try a mono adapter between the G10 and the output jack and see what happens.

[tochiro]

Good idea!  I've just tried a Y cable with 2 male mono jacks on one end and 1 female mono jack on the other.  I plug 1 male jack to the guitar and the G10 in the female jack.  And guess what?  The noise disappears.  What does that mean?  Can I just rewire the guitar output jack?

[DarrellM5]

Yep, I had to rewire one of my electric guitars.  The instructions are here:

 

http://line6.com/support/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=4210

[tochiro]

Thank you.  From what I understand that means I have to reverse the connections to the sleeve and the ring in the jack inside the guitar.  Do you confirm?

[MusicLaw]

So long as your Guitar's pickup wiring does not use the pull-up resistor connected to the ring wiring method, you should be okay.

 

From Line 6's pdf:

 

[begin Quote]

There are two remedies to this situation. The first would be to rewire the guitar jack, reversing the connections to the sleeve and the ring. This should only be attempted by a qualified service technician to ensure that no damage to the guitar occurs. If this wiring is reversed, there will be no change in the guitar’s operation, and the G10T will function with it normally.

The second solution would be to use a mono plug adapter or cable, as described later in this document.

 

Some acoustic guitars with active electronics also include processors, and in some cases, they use a more sophisticated method for turning its power on and off with a TRS jack. For example, some have a pull-up resistor attached to the ring of the jack, and turn on the power when it senses that the ring is connected to ground (as would occur if a TS plug was inserted). This configuration will not work with the G10T, since it will sense the voltage on the ring and assume that it is connected to the receiver for charging, and the guitar would not turn on since the ring is not connected to ground. The solution in this situation is to use a mono plug adapter or cable.

 

Lastly, some guitars have two signals, such as a piezo pickup and magnetic pickups, and will connect one of the pickups to the ring and the other to the tip. Although only the pickup connected to the tip will be heard, the G10T will normally work with this type of guitar, but if not, the solution once again would be a mono plug adapter or cable.

[End Quote]

[tochiro]

Actually the problem is not that I have no sound but rather that there's a high frequency noise that's added to the sound.

[MusicLaw]

If you're technically competent try temporarily jumpering (using some small alligator test leads) the G10T's Ring and Sleeve to the reverse on the jack, to see if that works. If so, you can then proceed to do the jack's physical ring/sleeve rewiring.

[DarrellM5]

Thank you.  From what I understand that means I have to reverse the connections to the sleeve and the ring in the jack inside the guitar.  Do you confirm?

 

Your audio should be going to the tip.  You're audio ground is probably going to either ring or sleeve and your battery ground is probably going to the the other one.  I just had to move my audio ground over to the same one my battery ground was going to and it fixed my problem.

[tochiro]

Yesterday I had to send the G10 back to the shop because it would not charge any more. I left the transmitter on its dock for hours and hours but the light only blinked red :-( I'm now waiting for a new one.

 

I must say I bought the G10 for its simplicity but up to now I'm not convinced...

[tochiro]

The solution in this situation is to use a mono plug adapter or cable.

 

[End Quote]

I've just bought a mono to mono TR adapter (the one recommended on L6 website) and plugged the G10 in it but the problem is still there - The G10 generates a high pitched frequency with my Martin.

[psarkissian]

Does the high frequency noise sound like you made a phone call,

and ended up connecting to fax machine?

[tochiro]

Well sort of but not that loud.  This noise is added to the sound of the guitar.  You can still hear the guitar sound.

[psarkissian]

DarrellM5's posting with the link,... there is probably a plug-to-jack

mis-match resulting in a ground lift on the audio signal line.

 

So what you are probably hearing is a frequency fold-back into the

audio band from the clock crystal.

 

Check the link in DarrellM5's posting.

[tochiro]

OP here - I sent my guitar and the G10 to a tech (a well-known one) and he said he tried everything and the noise would never disappear.  So my question is:  do you use the G10 with an acoustic guitar fitted with an active system and there's no such noise in addition to the signal?  If so what's your pickup system?

[ianericdotcom]

Same issue here.  Emerald X20 with a B-Band A3T preamp/pickup.  High-pitched interference noise from the G10.

I will add this, however:  I had to replace the pickup on this guitar.  The previous pickup has what looks like a ribbon cable to connect to the preamp.  The new pickup has braided shielding over the cabling, and the noise issue ONLY appeared after the pickup swap.  I'm no electrical genius, but it sure seems like the braid is picking up interference from the G10.

B-Band advised trying a wire jumper from the shield to a screw on the preamp circuit board as a "ground" - this made no difference. I also tried the 1/4 mono adaptor trick from Line 6 - also no change (well, the interference might actually be slightly worse).

I'll wait to hear more info here from Line 6, but for now I've got to ditch the G10 and go back to a guitar cable.  

[psarkissian]

http://line6.com/support/page/kb/_/live-sound/relay-digital-wireless/relay-g10-guitar-compatibility-fitelectronics-r817 

[ianericdotcom]

http://line6.com/support/page/kb/_/live-sound/relay-digital-wireless/relay-g10-guitar-compatibility-fitelectronics-r817 

 

This article does NOT address the high-frequency interference that some (more and more, it seems) users are experiencing with acoustic guitars.  I'm one of them.  G10 works fine in some of my guitars, and has a completely unacceptable level of high-frequency, digital-sounding whine in others.

[psarkissian]

Is it like ending up on a fax machine phone line sound,...

but with more of a whistling whine on top? 

 

 

http://line6.com/support/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=4210 

 

 

This is what's called a mixed signal device. It has analog, digital, RF and so on.

If one of the return lines isn't terminated correctly, if the Tip/Ring/Sleeve points

don't connect spot on, then a lifted ground return can occur.

 

This ground lift allows the digital clock signal to demodulate down into the audio band.

The digital noise or whining like a fax machine is a result.

 

Not all guitars use the same jacks, and not all plugs fit to all jacks exactly spot on. If one

of those tip/ring/sleeve (TRS) connections don't contact just right, the digital whine can occur.

 

I've been coming across this for years, with a host of mixed signal products of one

sort or another. Not all plugs will fit into all jacks exactly the same, check out the link

regarding adapters.

[youthguy213]

I'm playing a Breedlove with the LR Baggs Element pickup in it. Other threads have documented that this particular pickup give the G10 all kinds of grief with the afore mentinoed high-pitched feedback. I'm sitill working on a cable work around, but I may just replace the pickup.

 

Does anyone know if the new Fishman Matrix Infinity active pickups are compatible with the G10?

http://www.fishman.com/products/series/matrix/matrix-infinity-pickup-amp-system/

I'd hate to install it and have the same issue.

 

12/17 Update:

I purchased and installed the Fishman Matrix Infinity with discreet volume and tone dials. It sounds great and works perfectly with the G10. And although I don't know that I was ever disappointed with the sound of the LR Baggs, the new Fishman sounds phenomenal.

[phil_m]

I'm playing a Breedlove with the LR Baggs Element pickup in it.  Other threads have documented that this particular pickup give the G10 all kinds of grief with the afore mentinoed high-pitched feedback.  I'm sitill working on a cable work around, but I may just replace the pickup.

 

Does anyone know if the new Fishman Matrix Infinity active pickups are compatible with the G10?

http://www.fishman.com/products/series/matrix/matrix-infinity-pickup-amp-system/ 

I'd hate to install it and have the same issue.

 

I have the Fishman Ultra-Tone pickup system in two Breedlove guitars, which is a very similar system to the Matrix (I actually think it might just be rebnamed for Breedlove), and my G10 works fine with it. So I don't know what that's worth to you, but I just thought I'd throw it out there.

 

I think the one reason the LR Baggs systems has issues is that it's designed with a TRS jack so it can receive phantom power for the preamp. I don't believe Fishman does that with any of their preamps.

[drspankle]

I have the Alex Lifeson Les Paul with the piezo in the Graphtech Floyd, and I get the same annoying squeal over the signal. The guitar sound is still there, but there's a whine over the top. Doesn't matter whether the piezo is live or not.

[drspankle]

I just did a little experiment: with the Les Paul in its stand, I attached a mono patch cable from it to a Boss pedal, and plugged the G10 transmitter into the mono out (as I don't have a male/female 1/4 inch lead). The whine was heavily reduced but still there. I have a patch cable on its way so will let you know how that sounds.

[Sacco_Belmonte]

Did anyone tried putting a small piece of tape on the ring to prevent connection? What would happen then?

 

BTW: I just tried with one of my acoustics with Fishman systems and it didn't work. Then I used this (have it for other purposes) and worked quite fine (no noise)....still I hate it tho, defeats the whole wireless freedom thing.

 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/pro_snake_tpy_2003_bpp.htm

 

I connected the TS mono cable to the guitar and the transmitter to the female stereo jack.

 

EDIT: I just used the included angled adapter. I thought it was rather for the receiver since it was TS to TS

 

Worked like a charm on the same acoustic....so....no prob at all after all :D

Turns out the angled adapter is the best option on an acoustic so the transmitter sticks to the front, otherwise it will be hidden from me by the body. And yes, the unit turned off after 4min.

 

Happy camper here.

[drspankle]

I just received this : 6.3mm Mono jack Angled Plug to 6.3mm Mono Jack Socket

Custom Length .4 m from custom-lynx.co.uk and it has sorted the Les Paul out perfectly. Great service too.

 

Dr Spankle

[Sacco_Belmonte]

Ok, so I connected the transmitter to my Gitane DG300 with installed Shadow maccaferri system.

 

http://www.shadow-electronics.com/viewpro.html?id=219

 

I get the high pitched sound, it sounds more like a printer while printing. But yes i get the point of the high pitch now.

 

Also tried with the included angled adapter and got the nasty sound too.

 

I think is the wireless signal from the G10 somehow getting (through the air) into the shadow system since the active circuitry is really close to it. If I move the receiver the sound gets louder or quieter, but never gone.

So I guess I'm gonna be using a cable on this one. It seems to me there's no solution on this case other than that. I could use a longer cable to have the transmitter away from it, but that defeats the whole purpose of the G10.

 

Well....there seems to be pros and cons on every system. I guess that's why the G30 can be a better option for some as you have it always away from any active circuit. But the tradeoff is having a heavier unit you're forced to carry on the strap.

Anyway, I've ordered a stereo female to mono male jack to see if that helps. Will post the results here ASAP.

[JohnMcManus]

I am also having issues with the G10 and my Larrive D-05 using an  active Fishman Pickup. I get a really high pitched digital type noise along with the guitar sound. Lowering the output from the pickup does not make a difference.  My banjo and mandolin, using passive pickups, work great! Any solution to this really annoying problem?

[ksav]

has anyone tried a 6" TRS male to TS female adapter to eliminate the buzz?

 

Does anyone use the LR Baggs anthem without the buzz with the G10?

[ksav]

HIGH FREQUENCY SOLUTION!  If anyone is still looking for a fix to the high frequency buzz when using active pick-ups with the G10, try a TRS male - TS female Adapter.  I've been battling the issue for a bit, and a ts-ts adapter is really the only simple suggestion, however, that does not address the signal issue.  A TRS-TS adapter (a 6" works perfectly...$7 at guitar centers) brings the active signal down to a passive signal and completely eliminates the high pitch.

 

As an add-on....with the 6" adapter the transmitter dangles.  A simple and easy solution for me was to put the G10 transmitter in an i-pod "pouch" usually attaches to arm bands (the smaller old kind of Ipod).  The 1/4 connections fits perfectly snug through the hole where earbuds wires would normally go it, and the clip attaches perfectly to the guitar strap.

 

FYI:  I have the LR Baggs Dual Source on a custom Breedlove

[MusicLaw]

Thanks for posting the fix!

[Adorbnig]

My problem with noise was the fact I was using the USB port from my PC to power the docking unit. I guess it wasn't quite providing enough power and when I PLUGGED INTO THE POWER PACK provided the noise disappeared.

 

 I bit obvious I suppose but maybe helpful

[jbuhajla]

Great info!

[JohnMcManus]

See below my communications with Line6 support. It appears that nothing can be done

 

I just purchased a Relay G10 and I get sound with my Larrivee D-05 with Fishman under saddle pickup. Unfortunately there is also a really high pitched noise (almost like a fax machine) along with the guitar sound. I have tried the adapter 1/4 m to 1/4 female but the high pitch still remains. Please help

 

 

 

John, I'm sorry you're having a functionality issue with your Relay G10. We cannot guarantee 100% compatibility with every guitar on the market due to varying input jack technology and configuration. If you already tried the adapter work-around to no avail, unfortunately that guitar has an insurmountable incompatibility. Let me know if you have any other questions. Kind regards, Jason-Line 6 support

 

John, Thanks for your reply. There is no comprehensive list of the guitars with incompatibility to the Relay G10. Let me know if you have any further questions I can help with. Kind regards, Jason-Line 6 support

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[psarkissian]

There is a grounding difference between devices, this is allowing the digital clock

to demodulate into the audio band. This can occur with what is called a "mixed signal device". 

 

And you seem to be trying to use more than one in the same set-up, which complicates

things further.

[ksav]

John McManus

 

See below my communications with Line6 support. It appears that nothing can be done

 

I just purchased a Relay G10 and I get sound with my Larrivee D-05 with Fishman under saddle pickup. Unfortunately there is also a really high pitched noise (almost like a fax machine) along with the guitar sound. I have tried the adapter 1/4 m to 1/4 female but the high pitch still remains. Please help

 

Did you try the TRS-TS adaptor extension?

[ksav]

There is a grounding difference between devices, this is allowing the digital clock

to demodulate into the audio band. This can occur with what is called a "mixed signal device". 

 

And you seem to be trying to use more than one in the same set-up, which complicates

things further.

 

Perhaps, but it works.  The "common" use of the G10 takes a TS guitar jack signal and transfers it to the TRS-G10 (TS-TRS-wireless transmission).  Using the extension adapter to, yes, demodulate the ground creates an interface from "TRS-TRS"-TS-TRS-wireless transmission.    Added connections are rarely, if ever, a musicians ideal, but can you argue the success?

[JohnMcManus]

John McManus

 

 

Did you try the TRS-TS adaptor extension?

 

Yes I did but the whining noise is still there. Maybe I should try a longer cable to move the transmitter away from the Fishman input jack on my guitar?

 

[psarkissian]

I don't mean to sound picky, but, the use of the term "demodulate the ground",...

might want to use a different terminology, since you can't demodulate a ground.

There are ground ties and ground lifts, and re-establishing a ground plane.

 

I sort of get where you're going with that.

 

There are IEEE, AES, UL and ISO standards for grounding and connecting mixed

signal devices. Unfortunately, not all companies comply to those standards.

 

You also need to be certain that the correct cables are used for the correct

applications, as short-cuts or cutting corners tend to create problems.

[JohnMcManus]

HIGH FREQUENCY SOLUTION!  If anyone is still looking for a fix to the high frequency buzz when using active pick-ups with the G10, try a TRS male - TS female Adapter.  I've been battling the issue for a bit, and a ts-ts adapter is really the only simple suggestion, however, that does not address the signal issue.  A TRS-TS adapter (a 6" works perfectly...$7 at guitar centers) brings the active signal down to a passive signal and completely eliminates the high pitch.

 

As an add-on....with the 6" adapter the transmitter dangles.  A simple and easy solution for me was to put the G10 transmitter in an i-pod "pouch" usually attaches to arm bands (the smaller old kind of Ipod).  The 1/4 connections fits perfectly snug through the hole where earbuds wires would normally go it, and the clip attaches perfectly to the guitar strap.

 

FYI:  I have the LR Baggs Dual Source on a custom Breedlove

Is the adapter the HOSA DOC-106?

[ksav]

Is the adapter the HOSA DOC-106?

 

 Nope.  SS06TQF by livewire (http://livewire-usa.com/ss06tqf/)

 

best of luck...keep plugging away at it I guess. It was a sigh of joy when I strummed my breedlove without the high pitch whine.  Hope you can solve your issue as well.