marrstians Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Can someone explain how the eq cuts work? I tried to put a high cut on the built in ir at 6 kHz. It was still a bit shrill and high top end. So I tried a high cut eq pedal after the amp at 6 kHz and it's way darker, almost muddy. So how is the eq's working? Shouldn't I get the same tone with a high cut eq after the amp as cutting from the ir screen? Where in the chain does global eq work? Before or after everything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanecgriffo Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 i think some of them must have different curves, so stick with your ears when adjusting i guess.. I often adjust multiple hi and lo cuts if i have multiple ir's/eq's/cabs etc loaded.. I imagine the global eq is after the signal chain that is onscreen but that is just guessing.. with the global eq i just do a bit of hi lo cut and leave the other adjustments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Can someone explain how the eq cuts work? I tried to put a high cut on the built in ir at 6 kHz. It was still a bit shrill and high top end. So I tried a high cut eq pedal after the amp at 6 kHz and it's way darker, almost muddy. So how is the eq's working? Shouldn't I get the same tone with a high cut eq after the amp as cutting from the ir screen? Where in the chain does global eq work? Before or after everything? Forgive these suggestions if you are strictly looking for some details of the mechanics of your EQ placement. If you are using the built in Helix cabs start by listening and cycling through the microphone choices before you start EQ'ing. They make a dramatic difference and you may find that one of the darker ribbon mics or the like work better for you as a starting point and that you may as a result require less or even no EQ depending on the blocks used in the preset. Putting a looper at the beginning of your signal chain and recording a loop and letting it play is a great way to free up your hands while you make adjustments to your preset. After I choose the microphone I want to use with my cab I generally adjust the amp settings and then tweek a 10 band EQ before the amp/cab and finally a parametric afterwards placed after the cab to dial out anything I don't like using the sweep method. Depending on the preset, I also as you have already experimented with, set low and high cuts in the cab. There are a multitude of other strategies available for EQ settings and placement however including ones that EQ between amp and cab. I think the best way to learn how the different EQs and their placement interact with the other blocks is to kick off the looper and start experimenting. Good question regarding Global EQ. Don't have my Helix on at the moment so I am not sure where it is in the signal chain. My guess would be at the end but that could be wildly incorrect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 I would have to assume the global EQ would be in the final stage of the signal chain given that the actual tone being produced is being highly modified by amp, cab, and various other blocks that might be in the signal chain. This is one of the main reasons I've always applied EQ blocks toward the end of the signal chain which tends to better achieve what I'm looking for. Personally I find I'm using EQ less now that I'm using IRs rather than the built-in cabs. My attitude toward EQ in the signal chain has become rather conservative in that what I'm using it for is simply to compensate for specific frequencies in the output method I'm using. In my case I'm using a Yamaha DXR12, but it's likely going to be different with different speakers. As HonestOpinion noted there are a number of things that affect the output including the amp, mic, and cab being used so you really can't evaluate anything until all of those pieces are in place. In my case, when I feel I need to use EQ, I've found that a small (around -4db) decrease in the area of 4000 hz tends to remove any unwanted shrillness. Occasionally I find using a graphic EQ block instead with a minor cut at 2000 and 4000 also works pretty well depending on the amp and IR. Bear in mind that these things are all going to be specific to your situation depending on what you're using for output and specifically what you're using for the cab/IR and mic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHamm Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 This is probably why I like the built-in cabs better. You can find the cab that works for you and find the least shrill (to your ears and your style) mic model... THEN start doing the hi cut stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnonguitar Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 This is probably why I like the built-in cabs better. You can find the cab that works for you and find the least shrill (to your ears and your style) mic model... THEN start doing the hi cut stuff. You go through the exact same process with third party IR's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hideout Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 I always start off with the Coles 4038 ribbon on any cab and then play with the cutoff filters. I do wish we could switch cabs and not have to redo the mic selection and filter settings. So annoying and tedious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooey Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 I do wish we could switch cabs and not have to redo the mic selection and filter settings. So annoying and tedious. This ^^^ Same with amps and fx, where the same settings exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hideout Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 This ^^^ Same with amps and fx, where the same settings exist. Yes. Yes indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooey Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Not just annoying and tedious, though that is true, it makes it much harder to compare amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilottes Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Not mentionning when when you deal with different dual cabs ... and want to experiment with different speakers .....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willjrock Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 I always start off with the Coles 4038 ribbon on any cab and then play with the cutoff filters. I do wish we could switch cabs and not have to redo the mic selection and filter settings. So annoying and tedious. Yeah that falls under the category of being able to set user defaults. I agree with what you are saying, but its also just as tedious having to adjust the mix every time when you audition a delay, or send a wah to EXP1 each time you audition a wah. There are many things that could be made easier by letting the user decide the starting points. Oh yeah, and each time you change the first cab in the "dual cab" format, it resets the second cab to 1x12 lead 80. Thats a painful one IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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