Simultaneously using amp FX return and XLRs to PA

[warrenm]

I play many gigs where using the Helix amp models into the FX return of a rental Tube amp works best, but it would also be nice to send an out to the PA through the XLR outs, with a cab sim added. So far this is what I came up with:

 

http://line6.com/customtone/tone/2833254/

 

I'm using Send 1 (set to line level) to send an out to the FX return of my amp without cab sim

The XLR outs have a cab sim added. But I'm sure there's a better solution

 

Is there a way to route the un-simulated signal to Helix's 1/4 Line outs and the cab sim out to XLRs? That way, Send/Return 1 gets freed up too.

 

Thanks!

[warrenm]

http://line6.com/support/topic/19805-helix-to-poweramp-cab-and-helix-to-foh-easiest-way-to-make-this-happen/

 

Here's another thread on the subject.

 

I'm using quite a few pedals, and 2 amps. So I couldn't use splits as I needed both Paths to load either amp.

[willjrock]

Of course there is, but If you cant figure this one out on your own i have to wonder if youve given any effort at all.

 

Not only is this about as simple as it gets, but youve given a link to a thread where its been discussed in full detail, with pictures and step by step instructions, and for whatever reason still feel the need to start another thread about it.

 

I apologize if i am missing your point, but short of coming to your house and setting it up for you, im not sure what else can be done?

[warrenm]

Of course there is, but If you cant figure this one out on your own i have to wonder if youve given any effort at all.

 

Not only is this about as simple as it gets, but youve given a link to a thread where its been discussed in full detail, with pictures and step by step instructions, and for whatever reason still feel the need to start another thread about it.

 

I apologize if i am missing your point, but short of coming to your house and setting it up for you, im not sure what else can be done?

 

 

Apology accepted. If you only look at the preset I've posted (if that is something you would like to do), you can see that adding a split at any point is not an option.

- I need 2 paths, as loading 2 amps in a single path is not an option

- I use a split in the 2nd path to run the delay/shimmer in parallel, with a volume to control the blend. You can't do this normally, as controlling the delay mix directly with the expression pedal cuts off the trails when you back off the expression.

 

Perhaps not as simple as it seems :-)

 

[willjrock]

Ok, let me download the preset and see what i can do, tho it would have been helpful to mention that in your OP.

[warrenm]

Ok, let me download the preset and see what i can do, tho it would have been helpful to mention that in your OP.

 

 

Thanks, I've included a screenshot with the previous post in case you want to just check out the graphic layout.

[willjrock]

Youre running out of DSP moreso than youre running out of routing options. You have too many unused fx. Start by getting rid of them, and then set the patch up again. This is causing you to have to use the 2nd path before its truly necessary.

 

DSP wise you should be able to get pretty much everything you have on path 1&2 on to path 1 alone.

[PeterHamm]

Your tone on stage is not representing your tone going to the board.

This, imho, makes this approach less than useful.

 

Just use an FRFR if you're going direct to house.

[warrenm]

Youre running out of DSP moreso than youre running out of routing options. You have too many unused fx. Start by getting rid of them, and then set the patch up again. This is causing you to have to use the 2nd path before its truly necessary.

 

DSP wise you should be able to get pretty much everything you have on path 1&2 on to path 1 alone.

 

 

Well I don't really have anything in that signal path that doesn't get used regularly :)

[willjrock]

Well I don't really have anything in that signal path that doesn't get used regularly :)

Sure you do. The pitch doesnt come on at all and that uses a ton of dsp. Wah doesnt come on at all. Looper doesnt come on at all. Octoverb doesnt come on at all.  Whats the point of having them in the preset if they never turn on? Wont need send/return block with new routing. So theres 4 blocks that the preset doesnt use and a 5th one that can be eliminated  after youve got your routing down.

[warrenm]

Your tone on stage is not representing your tone going to the board.

 

This, imho, makes this approach less than useful.

 

Just use an FRFR if you're going direct to house.

 

FOH will be getting both the mic'd cab and the XLR feed. I've had great results combining both, using a Two Notes Torpedo Live for the direct feed, for example. Also, the gigs I play have FRFR wedges provided by the sound rental company (as well as rental backline amps), so we end up with different models from gig to gig. Hard to rely strictly on FRFR for a consistent stage sound.

[warrenm]

Sure you do. The pitch doesnt come on at all and that uses a ton of dsp. Wah doesnt come on at all. Looper doesnt come on at all. Octoverb doesnt come on at all.  Whats the point of having them in the preset if they never turn on? Wont need send/return block with new routing. So theres 4 blocks that the preset doesnt use and a 5th one that can be eliminated  after youve got your routing down.

 

Go into stomp box mode and each of those has a footswitch assigned to them. They get used, trust me :)

Also, losing the effects in Path 1 doesn't change the fact that I still need to use Path 2 for the second amp. If I could run 2 amps in a single path, it would definitely free up a row.

[PeterHamm]

FOH will be getting both the mic'd cab and the XLR feed. I've had great results combining both, using a Two Notes Torpedo Live for the direct feed, for example. Also, the gigs I play have FRFR wedges provided by the sound rental company (as well as rental backline amps), so we end up with different models from gig to gig. Hard to rely strictly on FRFR for a consistent stage sound.

 

Well, that's different, and cool, btw...

 

I find, though, that relying strictly on FRFR, when I have my own FRFR ready to go, not only works well for consistent stage sound, but works better than any other solution I've ever used, conventional or modeled.

 

But the beauty of all this gear is that you can do the same thing (basically) SO many ways...

[willjrock]

Snapshot mode? I did, and they were not assigned.

 

If I could run 2 amps in a single path, it would definitely free up a row.

 

You can, but you have chosen to add on 3 distortion pedals, which is abusing dsp to whatever extent.

[PeterHamm]

Go into stomp box mode and each of those has a footswitch assigned to them. They get used, trust me :)

Also, losing the effects in Path 1 doesn't change the fact that I still need to use Path 2 for the second amp. If I could run 2 amps in a single path, it would definitely free up a row.

 

Sounds like a guy who tries to make a patch that can do everything imaginable so that he doesn't ever have to change patches that much.

 

In other words, a man after my own heart! I very regularly use every ounce of CPU power in my patches, too.

[warrenm]

Snapshot mode? I did, and they were not assigned.

 

You can, but you have chosen to add on 3 distortion pedals, which is abusing dsp to whatever extent.

 

 

Nope, if you hit the mode switch you get individual control of each effect. I regularly toggle between the SD9 and Timmy (so you get 4 sounds with 2 amps) and there's a snapshot for the Octafuzz too.

[warrenm]

Well, that's different, and cool, btw...

 

I find, though, that relying strictly on FRFR, when I have my own FRFR ready to go, not only works well for consistent stage sound, but works better than any other solution I've ever used, conventional or modeled.

 

But the beauty of all this gear is that you can do the same thing (basically) SO many ways...

 

Oh yeah I totally get your point about carrying your own, There are some gigs where I take along a PT-1 pedalboard, 100 watt head and 2x12 cab, and there are gigs that I got the Helix for so I could take less gear :-D

[willjrock]

 there's a snapshot for the Octafuzz too.

 

Octoverb is the one i spoke of. No snapshot for that.

 

Nope, if you hit the mode switch you get individual control of each effect.

 

Oh sorry. I dont touch the hardware often.

 

Weighing out importance: Would i rather have a tiny glitch in a song that i can probably hide or work around vs. having to run a different set-up than id prefer. Thats a pretty easy one for me.

[warrenm]

 

Octoverb is the one i spoke of. No snapshot for that.

 

 

Oh sorry. I dont touch the hardware often.

 

Weighing out importance: Would i rather have a tiny glitch in a song that i can probably hide or work around vs. having to run a different set-up than id prefer. Thats a pretty easy one for me.

 

 

Octafuzz is one of the 3 drive pedals. Theres a switch for the Octaverb too (called Shimmer).

 

Anyway, it looks like our needs and ways of using Helix are different, nothing wrong with that :)

[johnonguitar]

Some of the posters in this forum seem to have forgot to drink their coffee/take their meds this morning

 

 

 

You use your Helix exactly how I do. So I'm probably not the best one to tell you a way to better your/our method! Party on dude


 

[ricksteruk]

I play many gigs where using the Helix amp models into the FX return of a rental Tube amp works best, but it would also be nice to send an out to the PA through the XLR outs, with a cab sim added. So far this is what I came up with:

 

http://line6.com/customtone/tone/2833254/

 

I'm using Send 1 (set to line level) to send an out to the FX return of my amp without cab sim

The XLR outs have a cab sim added. But I'm sure there's a better solution

 

Is there a way to route the un-simulated signal to Helix's 1/4 Line outs and the cab sim out to XLRs? That way, Send/Return 1 gets freed up too.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Using the Return to feed your stage amp still seems to be the only option at the moment if you need to use the paths for parallel FX processing  :(

 

Vote for my ideascale: https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/SEND-Block-to-more-places-e-g-1-4in-for-easy-IR-bypass/818624-23508

IMO the ideal solution would be that the Send block could feed the 1/4in outs (as well as other places like USB and Digital)

[warrenm]

Using the Return to feed your stage amp still seems to be the only option at the moment if you need to use the paths for parallel FX processing  :(

 

Vote for my ideascale: https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/SEND-Block-to-more-places-e-g-1-4in-for-easy-IR-bypass/818624-23508

IMO the ideal solution would be that the Send block could feed the 1/4in outs (as well as other places like USB and Digital)

 

Voted, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

[willjrock]

Octafuzz is one of the 3 drive pedals. Theres a switch for the Octaverb too (called Shimmer).

 

Anyway, it looks like our needs and ways of using Helix are different, nothing wrong with that :)

Nope. Good luck with your set-up. If its me, i simplify my patches a tiny bit and go for the overall bigger sound. You know what you need better than i do. Just my perspective.

 

Some of the posters in this forum seem to have forgot to drink their coffee/take their meds this morning

 

 

I love that every time i post you troll on in with something to say. That tells me im completely in your head and i just love that. Appreciate your continued attention.

[johnonguitar]

Nope. Good luck with your set-up. If its me, i simplify my patches a tiny bit and go for the overall bigger sound. You know what you need better than i do. Just my perspective.

 

I love that every time i post you troll on in with something to say. That tells me im completely in your head and i just love that. Appreciate your continued attention.

Lol you still don't know what a troll is do you?

 

Look, stop being a rude, arrogant, ignorant know-it-all who disparages others for asking perfectly valid questions. Ok? Good. Sorted

[willjrock]

Lol you still don't know what a troll is do you?

 

Look, stop being a rude, arrogant, ignorant know-it-all who disparages others for asking perfectly valid questions. Ok? Good. Sorted

Said the guy who had nothing to add to the thread but name calling...and i guess if you cant play guitar very good, chasing others around on an internet forum is all you really have...Troll on brother. Troll on.

[warrenm]

Gig report: Used the preset I posted above on a gig yesterday, feeding Send 1 into the FX return of a Mesa Dual Recto and 4x12 with Vintage 30s. XLRs went to the monitor desk and to FOH, while FOH also got a feed from a SM57 on the cab. The monitor guy loved the Helix direct outs, he said it was a very 'ready' sound to send to the in-ear mixes for the singers. The FOH guy said he had mainly the mic to start with, and then blended the Helix around it. 

 

I also had the XLRs coming back on a monitor wedge, and it complimented the amp sound nicely. I got the 'body' of the sound from the amp and the wedges added some definition. I must say I preferred this to any time I've had to go FRFR.

 

Btw I've added a footswitch to mute Send 1, so you can hear just the Helix XLR outs. Quite a handy thing to have, especially during sound check.

[HonestOpinion]

There are so many send/return loops (4) on the Helix that I imagine this isn't an issue for most users as they can just use one of the sends or a split to a 1/4 output block to provide the no-cab signal. But for players like yourself with a fully loaded signal path who would like to use all the loops for external pedals I suppose it would be grand to have a global setting for the 1/4 output that either included the cab or bypassed it. That option would make configuring and routing a preset a bit simpler for many Helix users who need both a with cab and without cab signal, even those users who do not need all the available send/return loops. No one can accuse you of not taking full advantage of the Helix's technology here and that is what it is intended for. The beauty of it is that the I/O provisioning on the Helix is so far ahead of the competition that this is truly a "First World" problem. Ultimately though adding that global 'no-cab' option for the 1/4 output would probably be welcomed by a number of users .

[MusicLaw]

^^^^^^^^^^

+1!

[spikey]

There are so many send/return loops (4) on the Helix that I imagine this isn't an issue for most users as they can just use one of the sends or a split to a 1/4 output block to provide the no-cab signal. But for players like yourself with a fully loaded signal path who would like to use all the loops for external pedals I suppose it would be grand to have a global setting for the 1/4 output that either included the cab or bypassed it. That option would make configuring and routing a preset a bit simpler for many Helix users who need both a with cab and without cab signal, even those users who do not need all the available send/return loops. No one can accuse you of not taking full advantage of the Helix's technology here and that is what it is intended for. The beauty of it is that the I/O provisioning on the Helix is so far ahead of the competition that this is truly a "First World" problem. Ultimately though adding that global 'no-cab' option for the 1/4 output would probably be welcomed by a number of users .

Add me to that list as well.