How/where to set input impedance?

[Soultrainer]

I have muddy bass notes (low e and a strings). I had the same problem with Boss ME-80 and I thought Helix is so much more powerful equipment that it could handle those low notes. I bet it can but how? Some say that change input impedance from global settings but I cant find it anywhere from the >global Settings. I have searched it everywhere I could but I cant find it. This is my 3:th day with Helix so I am pretty confused. 

 

Finally I managed to get a one good tone but those low notes go all muddy and I cant live with that. 

 

So anyone please tell me where I can find the input impedance and if you have any other tips to get rid of those muddy low notes please let me know how to fix it. I am playing with Tokai Love Rock with added Slash Alnico Pro II pickups trough KRK Rokit 6 active monitors. 

[shredzilla1964]

The impedance is located in the inputs section.

As far as low end goes it depends a lot on what settings you have dialed in you can do you high and low cuts on your cabinets/ir's etc.

[Soultrainer]

I tried to adjust low and high cuts but I cant notice any difference to bass notes, all muddy. They dont react properly, just goes blurry even with bridge pickup, with neck pickup its just all blurry even higher notes. 

 

I cant find the input impedance no matter how hard I try to find it. I didnt found it also from 2.0 manual either. It is pretty frustrated to play when you get those muddy/blurry sounds from low notes. I have had this problem with every multieffect and was hoping Helix is different since this is my first high end multieffect and 6 times more expensive than Boss Me-80.

[shredzilla1964]

Do you have the editor?

If so move the mouse cursor over to the input and click on it, that brings up all the options one of which is adjusting impedance.

If no editor, just navigate to the input on the unit itself.

[shredzilla1964]

Just to clarify its not located in the global options pages you actually click on the input icon either on the unit or in the editor.

[PeterHamm]

Use the joystick to curser to the input block. Once there, rotary controversy 4 is Guitar in-Z, that is your input impedance. It is not available for any other input. Only guitar and multi have it (and in Multi, it only affects guitar input, and perhaps Variax input).

[shredzilla1964]

Also, note that in my experience, adjusting the impedance provides a very subtle effect... it may be worth examining where your input and output levels are set globally, i.e line/mic, etc.

[davidb7170]

It's there for multi and guitar input, but only affects the physical guitar input, not the Variax VDI input (wish it did). It's an actual impedance adjustment on the guitar input, not a simulation.

 

I use it for my regular guitars to mellow out the sound, but I find it depends on the guitar. Wish they had a simulation for the Variax mags.

[MusicLaw]

Aside from applying an EQ Block in your Signal Path, you can also try splitting the Signal Path using the Crossover Split Type. Using the Crossover Split's freq control, route 150Hz and lower freqs, as an example, to one amp and use a compressor block to tighten up the bottom end. The other branch use another amp to accentuate the mid to upper freqs from the Bass as desired.

 

Only a few days in with your Helix, this may likely exceed you're current learning curve point. Nonetheless, keep it in mind to tinker with, as you can not break anything. Also, in the next week or so, the new firmware 2.20 is expected and it will have plenty more Amps, Cabs, and FXs, specifically for Bass players!

 

[Note: Edited slightly for clarity]

Edited March 20, 2017 by MusicLaw

[twystedriffs]

Also try reducing the sag and hum on your amps. Especially for more gain type sounds. Tightens up the bottom end, turn it back up for bluesier sounds. Made a huge difference for me

[zooey]

IMO the best way to tighten up low end on any context is to cut low end before the distortion, and if you want, boost some back in afterwards.

[DunedinDragon]

In my experience the Rokit line tends to be a bit bassy compared to other studio monitors.  But they do have a knob that allows you to lower the low frequencies by 1 or 2 db.  That may be enough to get rid of the muddiness in your bass.

 

Other than setting your guitar input level on the Globals/Input selection the two things that tend to work for me is to play with the low cut on the cabinet block.  Somewhere in the 100hz to 140hz range tends to tighten things up a bit.  Also increasing the bias on the amp block slightly will give you some more articulation which also might help.

[Joepeggio]

A few other ideas not mentioned.

 

Gauge of strings, age of strings, tuning?

 

Just some thoughts.

 

You mentioned Slash pups, what value pots and caps are in the guitar?

[jbuhajla]

I tried to adjust low and high cuts but I cant notice any difference to bass notes, all muddy. They dont react properly, just goes blurry even with bridge pickup, with neck pickup its just all blurry even higher notes. 

 

I cant find the input impedance no matter how hard I try to find it. I didnt found it also from 2.0 manual either. It is pretty frustrated to play when you get those muddy/blurry sounds from low notes. I have had this problem with every multieffect and was hoping Helix is different since this is my first high end multieffect and 6 times more expensive than Boss Me-80.

Input impedance is on Page 21 in the 2.0 manual. 

 

What amp and cab models are you using. What effects are you using?

[Soultrainer]

Hi

 

Thanks for the many answers!

 

I found the input impedance and it does not make much difference, I adjusted it how it sounds best for me.

 

I didnt undertand everything so if someone could clarify some things. here are questions and comments:

 

Shredzilla: "it may be worth examining where your input and output levels are set globally, i.e line/mic, etc" What do you mean "where your input and output levels are set globally". i have one output from Helix 1/4 going to active monitor. In global settings it is set to Line since it saound much better than Instrument.

 

MusicLaw: "Aside from applying an EQ Block in your Signal Path, you can also try splitting the Signal Path using the Crossover Split Type. Using the Crossover Split's freq control, assign one amp to the lower freqs, for instance 150z and lower, and use compression to tighten up the bottom end. The other branch use another amp to accentuate the mid to upper freqs from the Bass as desired. "

 

Yes, this it out of my comprehension at the moment. I put your text into my collection of Helix Tips.

 

twystedriffs: "Also try reducing the sag and hum on your amps. Especially for more gain type sounds. Tightens up the bottom end, turn it back up for bluesier sounds." I dont even know what sag is and who want hum to your amp =) Anyway I tried to reduce those, actually put them to zero and it just might had a little improvement to the sound, not crucial but any adive that I get to improve the sound is important and appreciated. 

 

zooey: "IMO the best way to tighten up low end on any context is to cut low end before the distortion" Cut low end where, yes before the distortion but I dont understand what or where I should cut low end?

 

DunedinDragon: "In my experience the Rokit line tends to be a bit bassy compared to other studio monitors.  But they do have a knob that allows you to lower the low frequencies by 1 or 2 db." yes they are a bit bassy but I already had them set the brightest tone.

 

"Other than setting your guitar input level on the Globals/Input selection the two things that tend to work for me is to play with the low cut on the cabinet block.  Somewhere in the 100hz to 140hz range tends to tighten things up a bit.  Also increasing the bias on the amp block slightly will give you some more articulation which also might help."  

 

I set the low cut to zero on both cabinets in preset I am working with, it sounded best. I dont know if there would be a sweet spot somewhere between 0-max? I increased the bias but all I can hear is raise in volume, I didnt hear any difference when adjusting bias X  from 0-max.

 

fido083: I use Eb tuning most of the time. Strings are 10-46. String are not brand new, I guess I change them in couple of week. 

 

"what value pots and caps are in the guitar?" This goes over my comprehension of guitars. In tokai I have Slash pups and in carvin ST300 I have M22Sd and M22V, the guitar is almost indentical to Jason Becker signature guitarJB200C. 

 

 

jbuhajla: Currently working with preset that I have Solo Lead OD amp, effects are Scream 808, EQ Low and High cut, Reverb Echo (I have not found really wide/big reverb from Helix, in BOSS I turned the knob and I got really wide reverb. Not that I am a big fan of big reverbs) and Delay Vintage Digital (which is bypassing at the moment, I added this when trying to create Gun and Roses song Welcome to the Jungle opening riff).

 

 

I downloaded these patches from Chris-Beaver but they sound pretty lame and Van Halen pathes are total crap in my gear. it sounds just like you were playing trough 40 bucks mini amp or even worse. I just hope that there is something completely wrong in my settings.

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/21410-free-helix-presets-with-download-link/

 

 

Thank a lot all of you and I´ll be happy to get more advice for learning to tame this beast.

 

 

 

 

[shredzilla1964]

That's exactly what I meant, i.e what are your settings for your chosen in/outs, also try the input pad switch & the auction input.

I personally think that most of the presets on customtone leave a bit to be desired... I've had much better results just making my own from scratch

[shredzilla1964]

When you say you set your low cut to zero, do you mean you have the slider all the way to the left?

[jbuhajla]

Are you playing through a guitar amp, PA speaker, or just listening through headphones?

[DunedinDragon]

 

I set the low cut to zero on both cabinets in preset I am working with, it sounded best. I dont know if there would be a sweet spot somewhere between 0-max? I increased the bias but all I can hear is raise in volume, I didnt hear any difference when adjusting bias X  from 0-max.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here.  I'm referring to the low-cut parameter that's a part of the adjustments on any cabinet used in your patche whether that be a stock cabinet or an IR.  it's either off or goes up in the frequency where you want the low end to be cut off.  Typically you would raise it from off up to around 120 hz or more to reduce the very low frequencies that are of no real use for guitar.  Setting low-cut on 0hz means you aren't cutting off at any frequencies.  It's not like a volume knob,  It's a knob to set a specific frequency.

[zooey]

What I meant by cutting low end before the distortion is to somehow remove some lows before the drive stages. There are different ways to do that.

 

In some amps, the bass control is before the distortion, so you could just turn that down. In some amps it's after, so you'd need to add an EQ somewhere before the amp, and use either low cut, or turn down a low band of EQ.

 

Some drive pedals cut low and/or high end before their own distortion, for the same reason I'm suggesting it before the amp. You can use one for that purpose, with its gain pretty low, or not.

 

The cool thing about Helix is that you can try all this stuff easily and at no cost once you have one!

 

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask further if it's not making sense.

[Soultrainer]

Shredzilla: "That's exactly what I meant, i.e what are your settings for your chosen in/outs, also try the input pad switch & the auction input."     

 

Input pad switch had no effect to the sound. I also tried to set auction (if you mean AUX by that) and it didnt make any difference either.

 

"When you say you set your low cut to zero, do you mean you have the slider all the way to the left?"

 

Yes I mean all the way to the left. I dont understand these things too well. When I change low cut value it doesnt effect the sound. Actually there are a lot of things that dont make any difference to the sound. I have only tried them with distortion so maybe they make difference with clean sound.

 

jbuhajla: I am playing trough KRK Rokit 6 monitor. Actually I dont know if it´s a PA speaker or not =) ??

 

DunedinDragon: " I'm referring to the low-cut parameter that's a part of the adjustments on any cabinet used in your patche whether that be a stock cabinet or an IR.  it's either off or goes up in the frequency where you want the low end to be cut off.  Typically you would raise it from off up to around 120 hz or more to reduce the very low frequencies that are of no real use for guitar.  Setting low-cut on 0hz means you aren't cutting off at any frequencies.  It's not like a volume knob,  It's a knob to set a specific frequency."

 

 

When changing the low cut value of 4*12 SoloLead EM I really dont hear any difference in the tone no matter how hard I try to listen even a slight difference. I set them to 120, both cabs. I dont understand these things but I wonder why they dont make any difference no matter what value you set.

 

zooey: I am not sure if I understood your message. So I need to put some EQ or something before distortion. What would that something be, other than EQ. Also I dont understand what EQ is. In music shop they told me that they cut some unwanted sounds but I really dont understand what it means and how it could effect the tone to make it sound better. I know that this EQ thing is important since many ppl talk about it but I just dont understand it.

 

Yes its really cool that you can test all kind of thing very easily with this thing.

 

 

[shredzilla1964]

yes sir i meant aux, lol sorry bout that.

move the low cut slider to the right, till it starts having an affect, as stated by others 120hz is kind of an average number...

but use your ears!

[jbuhajla]

KRK Rokit 6 is a 6" studio monitor. There are frequency adjustments on the back of the monitor. What do you have those set at? Also, it won't really perform very well at the very low frequency ranges (~80hz on low E string) due to the size of the speaker. 

[Soultrainer]

KRK Rokit 6 is a 6" studio monitor. There are frequency adjustments on the back of the monitor. What do you have those set at? Also, it won't really perform very well at the very low frequency ranges (~80hz on low E string) due to the size of the speaker. 

 

They are set to 1db (range is from -2dB to 1dB). Shame if those monitors can play the lower notes properly. What monitors you would suggest?

[jbuhajla]

You

 

They are set to 1db (range is from -2dB to 1dB). Shame if those monitors can play the lower notes properly. What monitors you would suggest?

 You might try setting the bass to 0db, or even cut it back to -1 or -2. Those little near field studio monitors don't have the bass response down in those frequency ranges if you are cranking them up in volume. The 6" speaker just isn't physically capable of pushing the air at that range. 

 

If you are on a budget, a lot of guys here are using the Alto TS210 powered PA speaker. If you aren't running any stereo stuff, you could just buy one for now. They don't have a "monitor mode" switch built into them that will adjust the bass response if you use them as a floor wedge though, so you will have to elevate it off the floor a foot or two. They are about $250 new I think. 

 

I just bought a couple of JBL Eon 610's that just showed up last night. Going to give them a go after work today. They do have a "monitor mode" which I will use since I will have both on the floor at home. Sweetwater has a sale on them for $349 now. I found a seller on Amazon that I bought them for $324 no tax and free shipping. 

[Soultrainer]

You

 

You might try setting the bass to 0db, or even cut it back to -1 or -2. Those little near field studio monitors don't have the bass response down in those frequency ranges if you are cranking them up in volume. The 6" speaker just isn't physically capable of pushing the air at that range.

 

If you are on a budget, a lot of guys here are using the Alto TS210 powered PA speaker. If you aren't running any stereo stuff, you could just buy one for now. They don't have a "monitor mode" switch built into them that will adjust the bass response if you use them as a floor wedge though, so you will have to elevate it off the floor a foot or two. They are about $250 new I think.

 

I just bought a couple of JBL Eon 610's that just showed up last night. Going to give them a go after work today. They do have a "monitor mode" which I will use since I will have both on the floor at home. Sweetwater has a sale on them for $349 now. I found a seller on Amazon that I bought them for $324 no tax and free shipping.

I have stereo surround system that I used to use with my BOSS ME-80 and they sounded different than KRK Rokit 6. I guess they are not made to play guitar sounds.

 

"I bought them for $324 no tax and free shipping."

 

I live in Europe I think there are always taxes and custom fees?

 

 

Yes I think I have a lot to learn about this thing but if I cant get even one good basic tone how would it get better by adding effect and so on? I guess I try those IR:s but as I told before I downloaded some IR:s but they sounded nothing like they sounded in the demo where I downloaded them. And yes I know how to put IR:s to a patch.

 

And no the controller never started to work so I took it back to store.

 

One more thing. How can I hear those great tones from other ppl playing trough Helix from those same KRK monitors?

[jbuhajla]

Are you able to record your sound out of the KRKs and post it here? It would make it easier to understand what you are describing. 

[Soultrainer]

Are you able to record your sound out of the KRKs and post it here? It would make it easier to understand what you are describing. 

 

Actually I got one good sound out of it, at least decent quality when I followed this videos guide:

 

 

It didnt sound too good with Tokai Love Rock but when I changed to Carvin it started to sound better. 

 

If I start to have those blurring bass notes or other problems I will post an example and maybe you can tell whats wrong.

[jbuhajla]

Just look for a deal on a powered PA speaker with at least a 10" woofer. That should give you enough bass response to handle your guitar needs.