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Wireless Headphone option for practicing


Thurston9
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1 hour ago, jester700 said:

I just noticed a 2.4GHz wireless guitar transmitter/receiver setup on the market. This one's stereo and has 3.5mm stereo plugs, plus the plugs fold up. This might be a decent bet for the "cheapo home grown IEM" thing. I might try one. 12ms latency. Not pro gear, for sure - cheap & cheerful.

 

There are a few rebadges of it. This one's $40 US, and nobody's complained that it doesn't play with active pickups yet:

https://www.amazon.com/LEKATO-Wireless-Transmitter-Receiver-Rechargeable/dp/B08FDQ2VHW

 

You do know that the subject of this thread is headphones, right?

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10 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

You do know that the subject of this thread is headphones, right?

Sorry; I forgot to connect the dots for folks who can't read my mind ;-)

 

If you already have wired phones/buds and aren't looking specifically for headphones as much as for a low latency wireless monitoring solution, there was this idea of using a cheap guitar transmitter rig in this way to fix the latency problem. I saw the new unit that runs in stereo and has 3.5mm plugs and thought that would be even easier & better for this. My comment about active pickups was I figured they more closely matched the output of line level sources you'd feed into this thing when using as a wireless "In Ear Monitor" device.

I'll post when I get them. In a new thread. ;-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 10/9/2020 at 5:34 AM, jester700 said:

I just noticed a 2.4GHz wireless guitar transmitter/receiver setup on the market. This one's stereo and has 3.5mm stereo plugs, plus the plugs fold up. This might be a decent bet for the "cheapo home grown IEM" thing. I might try one. 12ms latency. Not pro gear, for sure - cheap & cheerful.

 

There are a few rebadges of it. This one's $40 US, and nobody's complained that it doesn't play with active pickups yet:

https://www.amazon.com/LEKATO-Wireless-Transmitter-Receiver-Rechargeable/dp/B08FDQ2VHW

12ms - to much...

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17 hours ago, jester700 said:

Sorry; I forgot to connect the dots for folks who can't read my mind ;-)

 

If you already have wired phones/buds and aren't looking specifically for headphones as much as for a low latency wireless monitoring solution, there was this idea of using a cheap guitar transmitter rig in this way to fix the latency problem. I saw the new unit that runs in stereo and has 3.5mm plugs and thought that would be even easier & better for this. My comment about active pickups was I figured they more closely matched the output of line level sources you'd feed into this thing when using as a wireless "In Ear Monitor" device.

I'll post when I get them. In a new thread. ;-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gooooood!!!!!! So this is only way for budget home playing guitar and IEM monitoring? Should try it right now! 
But why he connect his IEM into notebook? Does it output audio through the wasapi driver?
 

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1 hour ago, Arararasha said:

12ms - to much...

 

It would be nice to get 10ms or less but if they work tolerably well as a wireless guitar transmitter then they may be acceptable used essentially in the opposite direction to transmit to the headphones. The OP said he was only looking for a practice option.

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16 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

It would be nice to get 10ms or less but if they work tolerably well as a wireless guitar transmitter then they may be acceptable used essentially in the opposite direction to transmit to the headphones. The OP said he was only looking for a practice option.

This one have only 5 ms latency
To practice the guitar you need a minimum latency, preferably in a total amount (including input, conversion, processing, conversion and output) of up to 10-12 ms, in order to spoil your sense of rhythm.I will give an example for myself, I played through Asio4All for about 1.5 years (measuring the latency, it took 30ms), I decided to switch to another driver where the delay was at least 1-5 ms, I noticed that I was constantly rushing ahead of the rhythm, even the drummer on rehearsals, I am constantly told "Where are you flying ahead of me?"

 

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  • 1 month later...

HI, I've used this solution for preforming for very long time. https://carvinaudio.com/collections/in-ear-monitors/products/em900 .

 Low price $369.00 on sale.

 

These work awesome and can be used for a ton of different needs. They are RF so latency is not an issues. The ear buds are not bad. I use Shure SE535 (they cost more than the wireless). But that will work and well.

 

EM900 / EM901 SPECIFICATIONS
» Operating RF Frequency: 518-542MHz
» Frequency Response : 30Hz-15kHz
» RF Output Power : 10mW
» Nominal Frequency Deviation : ±40KHz
» S/N ratio : 80dB (A weighted)
» Image frequency rejection : 80dB
» Channel separation : 35dB
» Audio Input Impedance : 20kΩ
» Input level switch : 0dB / -10dB
» AC Mains input : 100V-240V (50-60Hz)
» Receiver power : 2AA batteries
» Battery life : 8 hours
» Net Weight : Base 3.2lbs Receiver .45lbs
» Dimensions : Base (EM900) 8.35”W x 9”D x 1.75”H
» Dimensions : Receiver (EM901) 4.5”H x 2.75”W x 1”D
» Fuse : 0.5A 250V 19.5mm x 5.2mm dia

EM902 EAR BUD SPECIFICATIONS
» Frequency Response : 20Hz-20kHz
» Type : Dynamic
» Impedance : 16 ohms
» Sensitivity @ 1kHz : 114dB/mW
» Distortion : less than 0.3%
» Cord length : 58” Inches

 

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I just used my Koss Studio (FLAT and fairly good stats) head phone in my Helix Floor last night for the 1st time. Has anyone else experienced the sound being very harsh with ear cans? I know studio head phones have zero coloration (not as ear friendly) but I was a bit surprised by the how edgy thing sounded. The stereo effects were very lush but the guitar was not so nice. Just was wonder what other thought or experienced.

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19 minutes ago, joeycronin said:

I just used my Koss Studio (FLAT and fairly good stats) head phone in my Helix Floor last night for the 1st time. Has anyone else experienced the sound being very harsh with ear cans? I know studio head phones have zero coloration (not as ear friendly) but I was a bit surprised by the how edgy thing sounded. The stereo effects were very lush but the guitar was not so nice. Just was wonder what other thought or experienced.

No offense, but "Koss" may be your problem. Not surprised they might sound harsh. The headphone amp in Helix might be a little much for them.

 

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These are the Pro4s, not cheep Koss can. It isn't an overdirve issue from the headphone pre amp as far as I can tell. I've used them may times for mixing with no issues.  But to the question what is the experience with others and headphone. I should try my wireless setup as a discribed in the previous post.

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12 hours ago, joeycronin said:

These are the Pro4s, not cheep Koss can. It isn't an overdirve issue from the headphone pre amp as far as I can tell. I've used them may times for mixing with no issues.  But to the question what is the experience with others and headphone. I should try my wireless setup as a discribed in the previous post.

Sorry, still not a huge fan. I know that some broadcast folks use them, but there's a reason you never see them on the shelf in a Music store.

 

I think they probably have a harshness inherent in them. I do find that my open back DT990s (Beyer) sound fantastic with Helix, and any closed back headphones are only good for when I have to have no bleed because I'm tracking vocals.

 

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No biggie, Guess I'm just loyal to them because they treated me well for over 40 years. They have always back their products on life time coverage and I've used it a few times. I'm going to try the SE535 later this week. They are truly a higher end product and should be for the price. 

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4 minutes ago, joeycronin said:

No biggie, Guess I'm just loyal to them because they treated me well for over 40 years. They have always back their products on life time coverage and I've used it a few times. I'm going to try the SE535 later this week. They are truly a higher end product and should be for the price. 

VERY different kind of product, but very excellent.

And, when you are tweaking for live use, I find that IEM-style headphones work best.

 

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I agree, The IEM is what I use live and festivals, no amps direct to the mixer. I go dual feed and not stereo. One feed the house the second feed my stuff. Has worked great for years. Low volume and I get it to where I like it. walk on stage drop the pedal board. XLR in, Mic in, give them the receiver Done. 5 mins. and fast off stage in reverse. Bar / Clubs longer and been using two of the bose L2 with subs and Tone matches. They have been great for what we do. 5 to 6 people with Roland td20 drum set. Seems to work well for just about anything we do. (we don't do any heavy metal. lol)

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On 2/16/2021 at 11:42 PM, Pacemaker1000 said:

To answer my own question on the Sony rf895...

latency not an issue but horrible whine sound when plucking strings.

back they go!

I also have them and can hear it as well..

Did you find any who doesn't have that hissing sound?

Or is it something you have to live with when playing on RF headphones?

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  • 1 month later...

This may sound dumb, but I was wondering if some of the higher end gaming headsets out there like the SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless or the Astro A50 could be used as wireless headphones for guitar or any other kind of music practice. 
If I were to connect the headphones output of something like a focusrite scarlet or a Helix to the auxiliary input of the headphones' base station, will they be similar to the the Sennheiser in terms of latency? 
If these work for gaming with analog audio they probably should work for music practice! 

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5 hours ago, Chronotis said:

This may sound dumb, but I was wondering if some of the higher end gaming headsets out there like the SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless or the Astro A50 could be used as wireless headphones for guitar or any other kind of music practice. 

There are a few in the <15ms range, including the Arctis Pro:

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/connectivity/non-bluetooth-wireless#comparison_4121

 

But many don't accept an analog input at the base station. In fact, I think the Arctis Pro is the only one they list that does both.

 

This site tested the A50 at 80ms latency - too high for this use.

 

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On 5/15/2021 at 10:22 PM, jester700 said:

There are a few in the <15ms range, including the Arctis Pro:

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/connectivity/non-bluetooth-wireless#comparison_4121

 

But many don't accept an analog input at the base station. In fact, I think the Arctis Pro is the only one they list that does both.

 

This site tested the A50 at 80ms latency - too high for this use.

 

 

Thanks for the link and the info about the analog input connectivity. 

 

In the past I had used a Philips SHD8900 and I did not feel too much latency compared to wired headphones. Doing a bit of research on them now I found out that they were part of Philips'  digital wireless headphones for TV watching with high resolution home cinema sound audio, 2.4GHz RF transmitter and wired connection on the charging dock. They included a few different models in the series like SHD8600, SHD8700, SHD8850, SHD9000, SHD9100 and SHD9200 the latter two having the same form factor and design as the Sennheiser RS 185/195. I have not been able to find latency figures for those. 

 

Those headphones have almost disintegrated now but I have managed to make at at least temporarily usable and I am wondering how I can go about testing the latency for myself and I could use some guidance on that. 

 

Thanks again 

 

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8 hours ago, Chronotis said:

In the past I had used a Philips SHD8900 and I did not feel too much latency compared to wired headphones. Doing a bit of research on them now I found out that they were part of Philips'  digital wireless headphones for TV watching with high resolution home cinema sound audio, 2.4GHz RF transmitter and wired connection on the charging dock. They included a few different models in the series like SHD8600, SHD8700, SHD8850, SHD9000, SHD9100 and SHD9200 the latter two having the same form factor and design as the Sennheiser RS 185/195. I have not been able to find latency figures for those. 

 

Those headphones have almost disintegrated now but I have managed to make at at least temporarily usable and I am wondering how I can go about testing the latency for myself and I could use some guidance on that. 

 

That site mostly tested gaming headphones (with microphones and PC/console connectivity beyond just analog inputs). There may be other suitable wireless models out there for home theater, but the comparisons I've seen usually don't emphasize (or even mention) low latency. A 50ms delay is typically seen as "great", which would be bad for our use. This makes sense; you can get away with more latency for movies (or adjust in software). Games are more demanding, and playing guitar more demanding yet.

 

Testing headphone latency can be a challenge, depending on the gear you have. A stereo recorder or interface would work. Split an incoming signal at the input of the headphone's base station. Feed one of those to one recording channel. Put an analog mic on an earpiece and feed that to the other channel. Record a signal with some kind of sharp impulse - a test signal or percussion sound. In your DAW of choice, measure the time difference between the two channels. Make sense?

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18 hours ago, jester700 said:

 

That site mostly tested gaming headphones (with microphones and PC/console connectivity beyond just analog inputs). There may be other suitable wireless models out there for home theater, but the comparisons I've seen usually don't emphasize (or even mention) low latency. A 50ms delay is typically seen as "great", which would be bad for our use. This makes sense; you can get away with more latency for movies (or adjust in software). Games are more demanding, and playing guitar more demanding yet.

 

Testing headphone latency can be a challenge, depending on the gear you have. A stereo recorder or interface would work. Split an incoming signal at the input of the headphone's base station. Feed one of those to one recording channel. Put an analog mic on an earpiece and feed that to the other channel. Record a signal with some kind of sharp impulse - a test signal or percussion sound. In your DAW of choice, measure the time difference between the two channels. Make sense?

 

I guess manufacturers will not be producing many more wireless headphones with analog input for home theater systems since Bluetooth is the norm and can use the required adjustments in software. Gaming headsets seems to be the road ahead... 

 

I do not have a stereo recording setup yet but I am working on it. Thanks so much for the detailed explanation for latency measurement. 

 

At the moment I am using a Yamaha THR10C as an interface and I use a 4-way headphones amp to sent the output to a couple headphones with different impedances and to desktop speakers. 

 

So I tried another experiment, First, I made a completely dry patch, then sent one output into the Philips SHD8900 charging station and another output to the speakers keeping the volume level on both in such a way that I could hear them simultaneously. And I can not hear a discernable lag in the headphones. 

 

Thanks again 

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 6/12/2020 at 6:56 PM, mgeorge_68 said:

Wireless Guitar Practicing: My "Home" rig uses the Line 6 G30 and Sony WH-L600. This is the least expensive pro solution out there. G30 is what it is, you can find the reviews on that in other places, perfect for home use. 

 

The Sony WH-L600 are awesome. Turn off the Theatre mode, Digital 2.4GHz Transmission, Less Than 1ms Latency. "Closed Back" headphone design so only you can hear them. No Receiver Pack Required, built into the headphone. Great Dynamic Range with very little compression. Wide Frequency Response for "Play Along" applications. This is a single channel IEM Solution for under $300, that competes with $1K IEM systems. The only down side is that Line 6 Didn't make it.

 

I've tried so many other headphones out there. All of the Sennheiser RF Solutions (RS175/185) and yes there is an annoying 30ms of Latency, not acceptable for IEM. The low end RF TV monitors all drop out or Compress the Cr@p out of your tone. 

I have tried various Bluetooth 5 solutions with Aptx LL without success, I confirm instead that these Sony WH L600 headphones are fine, the audio output from the mixer is more than good, no interruptions, pops, clicks etc., little hiss and background noise (very tolerable) and a minimal latency that I personally estimate between 5ms and maximum 25ms, which are absolutely not noticeable when playing. There is no radio interference of any kind although my house (building) is full of wireless of all kinds and there is no interference with the 5.8 gh wireless guitar (Ammoon AM 5Ghz) and not even with the Nux B5RC at 2 , 4 Ghz (the latter two are excellent among other things to get rid of the guitar cable, I have tried others but some had an increase in noise when playing).
While waiting for someone to produce certified very low latency headphones for guitar (no internal amp like Waza Air) this is an excellent system, I recommend it!

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  • 1 month later...

Hello everyone,

 

I also confirm that Sony WH L600 headphone is good for playing a guitar. There is no noticeable delay, no interruptions, clicks, built-in receiver, good sound and 250-300$ price make this device perfect for home use.

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