Hx Effects Tone Color

[dtgailes]

I'm a long time line6 customer, but this is my first forum post.

 

I recently purchased an HX Effects unit and I love it, mostly. I've noticed that the unit changes the base tone of my rig pretty substantially. I feel like there is a huge low end drop and the signal is a little hotter. The tone on my neck pickup is a lot thinner. Its like the neck pickup looses its gooey softness.

 

I first noticed this when I had the unit all hooked up, Guitar -> Hx Effect In 1 -> Front of Amp, but the HX effects was off. I was playing through the unit bypassed then decided to turn it on. I could hear the unit turn on and could instantly hear the tone of the chord I was playing change. Its like there is an always on EQ. I was playing through a fresh preset with no effects blocks. The same happens when I enable bypass by pressing Mode+Tap. You can hear the tone difference.

 

I started searching the web to see if anyone else has had the same issue and only came up with one result. Someone in another forum did a tone match between true bypass and non bypass. When I saw the EQ curve I was like "Thats It"! Exactly what I hear. To be clear. This is the EQ you would have to add to the non-bypass signal to compensate for the bypassed signal.

 

I've tried changing the input and output line levels.

 

I really want to keep the unit, but my clean sound just doesn't feel the same. My HD500, XT Live, and Zoom units don't do this. Does anyone know of a workaround that would get more of my base tone back?

[phil_m]

Sounds like your unit is defective. I would either exchange it or open up a support ticket with Line 6. My HX Effects is completely transparent as far as I can tell.

[codamedia]

Interesting... at this point I would have to agree with phil_m.... I do not notice anything like this on my HX Effects. I've had many other multi effects over the years that have done this sort of thing to my tone, but never Line 6, and not this one. 

 

Is the units firmware completely up to date, and have you tried a factory reset to make sure something didn't get set incorrectly in the global settings? I know you've said you tried many things, but a factory reset never hurts when you are trying to solve a problem. 

 

Also, there is a sticky thread at the top of these Helix forums named "HX Effects Audio Artifacts"... take a look at that. Maybe you received one of these units? L6 will help you out if you did.

 

[dtgailes]

Thanks for the feedback. I've updated to the latest software and performed a factory reset with the same results. I'll try opening a support ticket.

[RevTeddy]

I've done a very close check of the tone both bypassed and with the HX effects on. I cannot detect one bit of difference, gotta be the first effects processor of any sort I can say that about. I agree, something may be wrong with your unit.

[jstudio123]

Im new so pretty clueless......but.......my bed time reading for the last few nights has been the manual, and I did notice a section about the bypass being configurable to DSP bypass and analogue bypass....Quote from manual below...Could it be that you are in dsp mode, which may colour the tone a little?.

Page 10 of the Helix HX manual

NOTE: There are two types of All Bypass for the HX Effects device: Analog bypass (sometimes called "true bypass"), where mechanically switching relays route your signal directly from the inputs to the outputs with no processing or A/D/A conversion, and DSP bypass, where any delay echoes and reverb tails decay naturally. By default, the HX Effects hardware is set for Analog bypass, but this behavior can be set from "Global Settings > Preferences

[jbuhajla]

Also try changing cables. Maybe you have a bad connection when adding the needed cables to connect HXFX. 

[dtgailes]

Thanks jstudio123. I've played with those settings. I'm using the true bypass. I get the same behavior when I power the unit on and off as well. 

I took the unit to my practice space yesterday to play it out of my HRDIII. This was with a different set of cables as well. Could hear the same high pass filter behavior there. But, the unit still sounded great.  This is my first multi-effects unit where I like the drives. I was able to compensate for the bass loss by turning up the bass on my amp, but the guitar still sounded quite different. It was a little harsher. Not as smooth on the clean sounds, but not horrible.

 

From the responses I've gotten here, I there may be an issue with my unit. Something is causing a high pass filter on the output before the relay. It seems to curve off around 110 Hz or so. That would likely be a non starter for a bass player.

 

I've opened a ticket with Line6. I'll post when I have an update.

[phil_m]

Quick question - do you have an expression pedal plugged into your HXFX?

[dtgailes]

2 hours ago, phil_m said:

Quick question - do you have an expression pedal plugged into your HXFX?

 Not yet. Just Guitar -> HX -> Amp.

[dtgailes]

So Will form support got back to me and helped me work through my issue. Turns out I was not hearing the HX as much as I was hearing the absence of a cable. The HX is buffered so it was negating the high end roll off from the cable, I think I had about 30' of cable or so. So that image is not the affect of the HX but the inverse of the cable affect.

 

Will asked me to take another buffered pedal and place it in-line with the HX and see if I still heard a difference. I put my HD500 before the HX so..

Guitar -> HD500 -> HX -> AMP. I could barely hear a difference between HX on and bypassed.

 

Then I started thinking. I marked my amp settings with tape. I used to use an HD500 on a big pedal train board with pedals going through the loop. The bass on my amp was marked at about 4. Since I removed the HD500 from the mix ( My board was too heavy, about 40lbs ) I've been running my bass at about 2.5.

 

When I used my HX with that amp earlier this week, the bass sounded better at about 4. I didn't connect 2 and 2 until Will set me strait.

 

I hope this helps anyone else that experience this.

[codamedia]

10 hours ago, dtgailes said:

So Will form support got back to me and helped me work through my issue. Turns out I was not hearing the HX as much as I was hearing the absence of a cable. The HX is buffered so it was negating the high end roll off from the cable, I think I had about 30' of cable or so.

 

I was wondering if this was the problem... not really a problem, just used to compensating for a problem you didn't know you had :)

Glad to hear you got it all sorted out! 

[dannywmusic]

i also seem to have the same issue,

don't understand how it was solved though.

 

there still is an annoying hi freq boost when the HX is engaged (no effects on)

 

how can i get rid of it?

 

thanks

[cowlby]

Found this thread while researching whether the HX Effects has an input buffer. Wish Line6 would provide a schematic diagram to confirm like TC and BOSS do with their Multi FX. However judging by the high frequency boost described here I think I have the answer.

 

@dannywmusic Check out the "Do I need a Buffer??" video by JustNickMusic on YouTube. It explains well how the buffering changes the tone and how long cable runs act like a high-pass filter. When you engage the HX, in a way you're shortening the cable run reducing how much high-frequencies are cut off.

[dtgailes]

On 8/26/2018 at 2:10 AM, dannywmusic said:

i also seem to have the same issue,

don't understand how it was solved though.

 

there still is an annoying hi freq boost when the HX is engaged (no effects on)

 

how can i get rid of it?

 

thanks

@dannywmusic I solved my issue by adjusting my amp's bass. I run a Fender Hod Rod Deluxe III. Without a buffer I run the bass on about 3. With the buffer I run the bass on about 5. If my volume is high enough for break up, I usually run the bass at about 2-3ish with and without the HX. I generally play an HSH Carvin with stock pickups.

[codamedia]

The HX Effects does have "Analog Bypass Mode" that you can enter... by default it is set to DSP Bypass (that uses a buffer) but in the global settings you can change it to analog bypass mode which is essentially "true bypass". Once you change that setting you access bypass by pressing "mode & tap" at the same time. 

 

On 8/26/2018 at 1:10 AM, dannywmusic said:

there still is an annoying hi freq boost when the HX is engaged (no effects on)

 

how can i get rid of it?

 

You are thinking about it backwards. The HX is not boosting high frequencies, it's negating the high frequency loss caused by the cables on their own. In other words, the purer of the two sounds is actually through the HX.  My own approach to all this "cable loss" madness (it varies from cable length, and from cable to cable) is to always use a buffer and set my tones based around that. I find that's the easiest way to achieve consistency. 

[dannywmusic]

thanks guys
i will try your advice

[dannywmusic]

well i guess it's the buffer here to

but adding bass still doesn't get the tone like it should be here.

 

what's weird to me is that some of you hear no difference. there definitely is, the tome also gets compressed not only hi boost

 

i also tried shorter cables. still there

[rafalbesztak]

Any news on this issue? To compensate the tone loss i have to add on my every preset 10 bads EQ block + Kinky boost block.

[C4TH]

I used to have this issue with my HXFX. I'm running it in 4 cable method. I found using DSP bypass, with a TC Electronic Bona Fide Buffer on the input, worked best for me.